Batting average?

justin78 · Nov 15, 2016

What is a realistic batting average a girl playing 12u ball be? Also the team plays a class A schedule.

thunder_rolls · Nov 15, 2016

I personally set the goal for all of my upper tier players at about .400. That is a good benchmark. .450 is a pretty good season, and .500 would mean she tore it up. I think some of this is subjective. Is the player taking lessons, how long has she been taking them, how does she perform against stronger pitchers, how does she hit with runners in scoring position, is she getting quality at bats, what style of hitter is she. We actually put more emphasis on quality at bats than we do batting average.

thunder_rolls · Nov 15, 2016

I coach an "A" level 12u team for the record.

tjsmize3 · Nov 15, 2016

thunder_rolls said:
I personally set the goal for all of my upper tier players at about .400. That is a good benchmark. .450 is a pretty good season, and .500 would mean she tore it up. I think some of this is subjective. Is the player taking lessons, how long has she been taking them, how does she perform against stronger pitchers, how does she hit with runners in scoring position, is she getting quality at bats, what style of hitter is she. We actually put more emphasis on quality at bats than we do batting average.

I would completely agree with the above. I tend to set .400 as the benchmark of what a player who is at the top-level and will progress to "D1" level during the recruiting years should achieve. As a coach I personally rank this stat third in level of importance when looking at our lineup and making day to decisions:
1. OBP
2. (RBI + RS)/PA
3. BA
4. SLG
5. QAB

thunder_rolls · Nov 15, 2016

Just curious, why do you rate BA above QAB. Me an my other coaches talk about this a lot. I know and understand the importance of BA, but when devoting all the time we do to instruction and making sure these girls do things the way they are being taught, I would rather my DD see 4 or 5 pitches then crush the ball and make an out than swing at the first pitch and have a weak little pop up drop between the infield and outfield. I know its those little "Texas Leaguers" that may help win games but it isn't justifying the money I am spending on lessons.

BBD04 · Nov 15, 2016

Only thing that matters is OBP... Can someone post what they consider "A" level schedule is for 12u? I think there will be a big difference in thoughts on this!!!!

cobb_of_fury · Nov 15, 2016

A thought: IF you have more than one girls batting .500+ you just may not be playing a tough enough schedule - and I know you can only play the opponent who's put in front of you but .500 is high. Since some number of quality hits get caught or turned in to put-outs .500 means she's getting hits that shouldn't be hit's with a better fielding team.

I'd go with a .400 avg. as very successful if you are playing teams at or slightly above your talent level id shoot for .330 or above as acceptable and work hard with anyone under .300

For me OPS (on base + Slugging) or wOBP (Weighted On Base %) as the best measure of what a hitter is doing.
then AVG and QAB - shows more what their potential is.
Also I'm old school So I look at Strikeout ratio as a good measure -

Everything else is just numbers.

DON'T MAKE A BIG DEAL OF RBI's unless you can do it as a % of opportunities - often times they are dumb luck

tjsmize3 · Nov 15, 2016

thunder_rolls said:
Just curious, why do you rate BA above QAB. Me an my other coaches talk about this a lot. I know and understand the importance of BA, but when devoting all the time we do to instruction and making sure these girls do things the way they are being taught, I would rather my DD see 4 or 5 pitches then crush the ball and make an out than swing at the first pitch and have a weak little pop up drop between the infield and outfield. I know its those little "Texas Leaguers" that may help win games but it isn't justifying the money I am spending on lessons.

I'm sure there is more than one way to look at the stats depending on what your philosophy is on attacking the other team's defense and what style of play you teach your girls and find success with. I don't mean to say that QABs is not a very important number to look at because it is... especially when you are looking at an individual player and want to get a good idea of what kind of approach are they taking at the plate and does it result in productivity. I had mentioned though that when I am coaching and making decisions on the lineup I use that stat a little farther down the line. I generally want to know first who gets on (OBP), and next who gets home (or gets someone else home) as a result of their getting to the plate (RBI + RS / PA). I also want to know who tends to hit for extra bases (SLG) and who gets the next kid to the plate while moving the runners and putting pressure on the pitcher (BA). From there I make decisions on where I want a kid to bat in our lineup to give us the best chance to score in the system we use ... again, may be very different from what someone else is doing. When you look at our team stats QABs really do not correlate as well with our production as you would expect.

tjsmize3 · Nov 15, 2016

BBD04 said:
Only thing that matters is OBP...

Lol... I place the highest value on OBP too, but if you had a team of .500 OBP kids that only hit for singles or walked you could theoretically score no runs in a game. At the end of the day runs have to be scored to win a game so value has to be placed on something like RS, RBI, SLG or some predictor of that beyond just OBP. I know some people in our org that would argue pitching stats are a better predictor of W/Ls than offensive stats and therefore the only stat(s) that matter...?

thunder_rolls · Nov 15, 2016

BBD04 said:
Can someone post what they consider "A" level schedule is for 12u? I think there will be a big difference in thoughts on this!!!!

Why don't you tell us what it means since you took issue with the comment?

larrybowman · Nov 15, 2016

Bobs waterbeds (gold) is "class A"
Circus Clown Elite is "class A"
Monster gold, silver, platinum is "class A"

Sorry, I'm very immature! Please continue.

thunder_rolls · Nov 15, 2016

That was my point. It is all relative.

cobb_of_fury · Nov 15, 2016

BBD04 said:
Can someone post what they consider "A" level schedule is ...!

Actually this is a very good question -
There are A level teams that travel every weekend all across the country and do prestigious tournaments -
There are A level teams that do all the best regional tournaments
There are A level teams that do all the best local tournaments
there are A level teams that play mostly around town

A- doesn't mean anything besides you don't consider yourself a "B" Team
One of the problems with the lack of a unified governing body for softball is designations mean nothing
Here's a link to USSSA's List of all registered 12U A teams http://usssa.com/fastpitch/Team2/#/?gdSport=16&stateID=31&classID=1030&seasonID=20

I'm gonna guess there is a fairly big gap between the best and worst team on that list (I don't know 12U teams so I'm not even going to comment)

BBD04 · Nov 15, 2016

Cobb you are correct. I believe there is a huge difference in those teams. I also believe at 12u "A" schedule is playing where the best/ most respected teams are playing regionally every weekend. . JMHO

Fairman · Nov 15, 2016

One of the numbers I look at at all age groups and at all levels is Strike Out Percentage. (K's/All AB's)
If she doesn't hit the ball then nothing happens.
.
A scoring error can not creep into that number.
If it is a big number then the girl is just failing away and she will be a rally killer.
If this is a low number then the other numbers will be better.

This is not even on your radar but it should be be.....just saying.

bleacherbum · Nov 15, 2016

BBD04 said:
Only thing that matters is OBP... Can someone post what they consider "A" level schedule is for 12u? I think there will be a big difference in thoughts on this!!!!

People throw the "A" word around to make themselves feel good. It is like adding the Platinum, Gold, Elite, Premier to the end of the name.
It becomes quite funny how anyone would get upset about someone asking what a realistic "A" level schedule should be.

larrybowman · Nov 16, 2016

What are some of the "A" level 12U tournaments that are local? I'm figuring local being Ohio?
Lasers
Stingrays
Orville Fire in the Sky
????

These are just a few I can think of, and these are just my opinion.... but then again I haven't been around 12U for some time now. Gettin a little long in the tooth here.

I know Madness puts on a good one at 16U not sure about 12
Also Best of the Best for the older age groups is a good one.....again not sure of 12U?
Anybody wanna educate me on this, Id like to catch a few of these once the DD goes off to college.

tjsmize3 · Nov 16, 2016

larrybowman said:
What are some of the "A" level 12U tournaments that are local? I'm figuring local being Ohio?
Lasers
Stingrays
Orville Fire in the Sky
These are just a few I can think of, and these are just my opinion.... but then again I haven't been around 12U for some time now. Gettin a little long in the tooth here....
Anybody wanna educate me on this, Id like to catch a few of these once the DD goes off to college.

I think all of the tournaments you mentioned are "A" level, as well as too many more to mention. I guess the question that needs to be answered is how do you define "A" level. We play only ASA, PGF and now a few USA Elite Select events. To my knowledge the only sanction that has "A and B levels" is ASA. In that case a "B" tournament is usually at a rec all-star level or less, where "A level" tournaments are usually intended for teams who feel they are above rec all-star level... and again, entirely determined by the team themselves.

If on the other hand you are talking about "A" level tournaments in OH at 12u that would be on what people sometimes say as "Elite level, national level, top-tier" as defined by drawing "nationally competitive" teams from the entire Midwest and beyond... there are only a handful in Ohio that I am aware of that are even put together for that purpose and draw accordingly: Mark Skapin's Fall into Madness, DeMarini Fall Brawl, Stingrays, Outlaws Summer Invite, OH PGF Qualifier. I cannot think of any other events in Ohio where you will find teams like NJ Intensity, IL Chill, Bev Bandits, Finesse, IA Premiere, IN Magic Gold, Indy Gators, Indy Prospects, etc... coming to play on our turf. Apologies ahead of time if I left one out... just going off memory.

larrybowman · Nov 16, 2016

I think most of the Outlaws tournys (no matter the age) draw the "big dogs" from around the state and beyond. I know when my DD was 12U Fire in the Sky was really beginning to bring some big name teams from Ohio and neighboring states as well.
I had heard that Lasers tournament kind of dropped off a little bit, as far as colleges being there and the competition? We played there 2 yrs ago saw some very good teams and had a fair amount of coaches as well. I think every tournament has teams that are considered "beasts" as well as others that are not, and every tournament isn't going to make everyone happy.

Shane · Nov 16, 2016

Great discussion for the most part, I am a numbers guy so it always interests me to hear what other coaches see as important numbers to consider when evaluating players or assembling a lineup. I myself pay close attention to OBP, QAB, and AVG. I think by using these numbers a coach can assemble a lineup that would give your team the best chance of applying pressure on your opponent.

Batting average?

New Member

Member

Member

Active Member

Member

New Member

Member

Active Member

Active Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

New Member

Member

Member

Member

Active Member

Member

Member

Similar threads