24 hours to accept, really?!

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I am not sure if this has been asked, but let's say we did our homework, learned all we could about teams we were interested in, narrowed it down to 2 teams. Team 1 is having a tryout this Saturday, team 2 next Saturday. Team 1 likes DD, wants a commitment in 3 days. How is it remotely fair to ask that of a girl/family? This is all hypothetical, but from how it sounds in this thread, very likely that it could happen. Are you telling me that as a coach, you would deprive this player the right to go to both tryouts and actually have a choice? What if this girl/family told you up front that she has her choices narrowed down to 2 teams, but the other tryout was not until next weekend? Would you still be that hard headed to force a decision before the next tryout? To me, this is the reason why salesmen get the bad rap they do, because they are forcing an answer and also why on large purchases there is a 3 day right of cancellation in Ohio. ;&
There are many facets to your 'theoretical' situation.
*If you did your homework and this is one of two teams for which your daughter wants to play, she receives the offer, why not accept? (see the grass is greener posts above)
*Which more fair? Asking the coach to wait to assemble his team or asking you and your daughter to make a decision in 3 days?
*You could always get a private tryout with the grass might be greener team within the 3 day offer period
*It might matter too if your daughter is a pitcher/catcher or position player...
*In the end the laws of supply and demand rule, if she can't decide within the time period or won't due to principle, another team will gobble her up and hopefully will make the first team pay for not allowing her more time

The important thing is that she gets on a team that makers her at least a better ball player...
 
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I am not sure if this has been asked, but let's say we did our homework, learned all we could about teams we were interested in, narrowed it down to 2 teams. Team 1 is having a tryout this Saturday, team 2 next Saturday. Team 1 likes DD, wants a commitment in 3 days. How is it remotely fair to ask that of a girl/family? This is all hypothetical, but from how it sounds in this thread, very likely that it could happen. Are you telling me that as a coach, you would deprive this player the right to go to both tryouts and actually have a choice? What if this girl/family told you up front that she has her choices narrowed down to 2 teams, but the other tryout was not until next weekend? Would you still be that hard headed to force a decision before the next tryout? To me, this is the reason why salesmen get the bad rap they do, because they are forcing an answer and also why on large purchases there is a 3 day right of cancellation in Ohio. ;&

That's simple, you say, thank you I really appreciate your offer and you are on top of our list, however there is another team we would like to tryout for and then consider our options. If you were upfront with me to begin with then I personally wouldn't have a problem with that and would accept that.
 
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kned44:

I think that some of the previous posts have identified the problem of "fairness" to the team extending the offer. If they leave that offer open for 7 days, that is 7 days in which their alternate choices will be accepting offers from other teams.

Buckeye Heat 95 has never had to put a deadline on an offer (unless that heartless old Joe Abraham did that when he chose the foundation for this team :D), but I could imagine a situation where the offerees are only marginally better than the players behind them and if we waited a week plus for a response from our first preferences we would lose our second preferences.

The more I think about this, it seems that we should all voluntarily conduct tryouts on the two weekend days after the close of ASA national play. It would get a little crazy for those two days, but we could all protect ourselves by having a 24 hour period for response after the two day tryout and the players would have the benefit of having attended the tryouts of the two teams in which they are most interested. Don't see any other way to crack the nut.
 
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Hell, from the looks of the posts , everyone DID have tryouts that weekend :lmao:
 
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Interesting idea, CGS ... kind of a state-wide tryout weekend. Of course, many would not comply at first and there is no sanctioning body to make it happen ... maybe we can ask OHSAA to do it! ;) But, seriously I wonder if it's something that could pick up steam in a year or so as teams who did their tryouts later would find out that most of the talent was already committed ...
 
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I don't think there was a team out there that didn't have a try out or two the 14th & 15th....
 
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Hitter 23:

You are right, but some organizations schedule a second weekend of tryouts and that creates the tension between the fairness to the team and the fairness to the player who wants to attend another tryout(s). I'm thinking that the Lasers organization would have NO PROBLEM getting girls who want to join them to tryouts scheduled on Saturday and Sunday of that first weekend. Players who couldn't make that could have private tryouts before that first weekend. I choose the Lasers as an example as a compliment and I hope they understand that. Lasers may well be the first choice of 85-95% of players/parents. Because they are so good and so dedicated to having first class teams, they conduct tryouts at several venues in Ohio and, I think, on dates that span one week. They would be making a sacrifice to join in the voluntary tryout week that I propose, but that gets back to Howard's point (see thread on paying for tryouts) that if the family really thinks their daughter is good enough to play for the Lasers, that family will move heaven and earth to get to one of the Lasers' tryouts during the first weekend. It just creates tension for the other teams when there are tryouts still to be had for outstanding organizations such as the Lasers and Doom. And please understand I don't think these organizations are doing anything wrong by having two weekends of tryouts. And I acknowledge that many many players would wait to decide until after they see whether they have an offer from these two outstanding organizations. That is part of the problem. Not the problem for the Doom or the Lasers, but part of the problem.

Oh spoot, I hope that I haven't ticked off the Doom or Lasers coaches by this post. They can schedule times for tryouts whenever they like, because I know they are the two top multi-team organizations in Ohio. I'm just throwing mud against the wall with respect to the tension between the needs of teams and the desires of players at what someone else accurately called "the silly season".
 
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Cgs, Can you imagine the mayhem ? I wouldnt even want to try the logistics of that.

The tryout system will be what is, a maniacal month or so of wild TTT'ing and posting of why so & so's team is better than the next, coaches undercutting one another, and parent "agents" that could put Scott Boras to shame thinking their DD is a female Pujols. But of course, if it was so bad, we wouldnt do it year after year. :rolleyes:
 
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Hitter23:

I actually don't think it would rise to mayhem. Offers would be made during or at the close of tryouts and when the player doesn't accept during the 24 or other hour of the offer, the teams would move to their next preferences. After a couple of years of participating in tryouts, I personally think that the top teams know who they want to make an offer to after that player (that is, the one they want) has participated in a tryout. Players who get an offer during that first 24 hour period from their second or third choices would at least know that they aren't in the mix for their top choice and they could respond positively (or negatively) to their second or third choices in a limited period of time.

As I said, I'm just throwing mud at a problem. Part of the mom in me, because I remember a very talented 10 year old waiting for a call that never came and I vividly remember the tears. . . yet she ended up playing Division 3 ball in college.
 
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Thanks for the replies on my hypothetical question. I do feel that parents/families have as much blame in the monster that has been created. I personally know a couple girls who went to tryouts with absolutely NO intention of accepting a spot if one would be offered. Why? I am not sure and only the family can answer, but I do know that it gives the whole "silly" season a negative outlook to me. Coaches only care about assembling the most talent they can. Parents only want the best situation for their kid. The players only ant to play a game they love. How can we bring all of those forces together for the benefit of all parties? I think one weekend of tryouts for all teams would do that. It would keep the one's like I mention above from wasting too many coaches time. Give every girl a 48 hour window to accept, then you keep moving down your lists as you get accepted/rejected. If you are still short players, there is always the teams looking for players forum here. It would work if every team could do a morning and afternoon tryout both Saturday and Sunday. It would give you as a coach a chance to still see all the girls who would want tryout and keep the frivolous tryouts to a minimum.
 
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As I said, I'm just throwing mud at a problem. Part of the mom in me, because I remember a very talented 10 year old waiting for a call that never came and I vividly remember the tears. . . yet she ended up playing Division 3 ball in college.


Wow , that just threw a shudder down my back, i remember something like that...
 
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kned:

Thanks for thinking about the practical things that would need to be done for an Ohio tryout weekend. And I'm sorry we don't have something in place to moderate the silly season this year. Best of luck to you and your DD; I don't know anything about your DD's softball skills, but clearly Ohio fastpitch needs thoughtful parents such as yourself.
 
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Not a bad idea kned44. . .but you have a two hour tryouts and the drive to a second with only maybe 1/2 hour to get there. Four tryouts potentially in two days. So what if player "x" wants to tryout in more than one age group and the are at two different times; that's only one team they can see in a day. Then you have player "y" that wants to attend your tryout and five others, but cannot get all of them in all in one weekend.

Offering tryouts and a couple of different weekends or a weekday/weekend combo allows teams to have a great pull of players coming to their tryouts.

You right that it's a viscous cycle. What we have to hope for is that everyone remembers, we as a nation need to get back to doing what's right vs. what feels good or gains us an advantage.

JMHO
 
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I can remember back in 2002 or so when we gave everyone like 2 weeks or more to decide. That was appreciated by parents, but it did cost us players. It cost us our second choices in many instances, girls who would have come with us, but didn't want to wait so long for an offer from us while we were waiting to hear back from our first choices.

I would think by now, with OFC and the Internet in general, that by 14-U, parents and girls should have a strong tentative list of preferenes by tryout time. That could change some at those tryouts as families get to know coaches and organizations, but it shouldn't take more than 24 or 48 hours for a girl to decide after a tryout. The tough part comes when a girl wants to go to another tryout the following weekend. There is no right answer. It seems to me it's ethical for a team to hold a spot for 48 hours and then the spot will be open until it's not.

If families have done the research prior to tryouts, the only thing left should be to discuss information that came into play at the tryouts. Did we like the coach and the current players, is the fee reasonable for what the team is doing, etc. And the family discussion should be done immediately, not four or five days later. Same for organizations, decisions need to be made right at the end of tryouts, not sat on for several days. Any remotely decent coach knows exactly who he wants after tryouts are over. No amount of mulling it over is going to change anything. I usually knew 30 minutes into tryouts which girls I wanted and sometimes just 10 minutes. Power, athletic ability, arm strength, speed; those things don't keep themselves hidden.

As a little bit of a parallel, before I interviewed at the job I currently hold, I had done so much research on the school that I might have known more than the President of the university about the things that can be found publicly. The only things that remained were to determine the operating budget, what the AD was like, what the other support personnel (SID, asst. ADs, Admissions, Financial Aid, other coaches) were like, the field conditions and who was responsible for upkeep of the field and a few other more minor factors. By the end of the interview, I knew all I needed to know and told the AD on the way to the airport that i would take the job if it were offered, but that I was scheduled for another interview the following week at a different school, which was true. About three days later and before that next interview the job was offered and I took it. The lesson is, is to be as fully prepared as possible going into tryouts and know what information you need to glean at the tryouts to be able to make a final decision. Once you have all that, take a day or two if you need to, but if you need to take any longer than that, then in my opinion something is wrong.
 
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kned44:

I think that some of the previous posts have identified the problem of "fairness" to the team extending the offer. If they leave that offer open for 7 days, that is 7 days in which their alternate choices will be accepting offers from other teams.

Buckeye Heat 95 has never had to put a deadline on an offer (unless that heartless old Joe Abraham did that when he chose the foundation for this team :D), but I could imagine a situation where the offerees are only marginally better than the players behind them and if we waited a week plus for a response from our first preferences we would lose our second preferences.

The more I think about this, it seems that we should all voluntarily conduct tryouts on the two weekend days after the close of ASA national play. It would get a little crazy for those two days, but we could all protect ourselves by having a 24 hour period for response after the two day tryout and the players would have the benefit of having attended the tryouts of the two teams in which they are most interested. Don't see any other way to crack the nut.
Hi Buckeye Heat, When one is selected by a team when is one supposed to pay fees? If a team decides they do not like a player when are they expected to give a release? Do some/many teams have regular practices starting soon? Or not until next May? What if a player is not happy with the team for good reason. What if a player is unhappy with a team for questinable reason? What if a team just wants a player for the money and bench insurance until a better player comes along? This whole business seems bizzare.
 
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Ok, here is the plan. Next year August 13 & 14 will be the only tryout date allowed in Ohio. We'll hold all the tryouts at Berliner in Columbus for all age groups. The fields will be manned by professional evaluators and all the data will be handed to the coaches eagerly waiting on the sidelines. The coaches will then hold a steel cage last man (or woman) standing wrestling match to determine who will get first pick.
 
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jbennet:

Each organization has deadlines for fees, and those should be spelled out clearly at tryouts or before someone accepts a roster spot. Any reputable organization or team will keep a player for a full year and not release them, barring something way out of whack.

Almost all teams practice and play some in the fall and winter. If a player is not happy with a team, of course the family and the team are likely to disagree on whether it's a good reason or not. I think most teams will give a refund of some sort, based upon when the player quits. If a player quits in the spring right before the season, don't expect much, if any, of a refund. If a player quits in August or September, then there will probably be some refund. These things need to be investigated before accepting a spot and most reputable teams will spell out their policies.

I don't see hardly any teams wanting a player for the money. I really don't think that's worth worrying about, at least in Ohio. Whatever extra money a team might make from one player is not worth near the headaches a coach will bear in trying to keep that player and others happy regarding playing time.

I know it all seems bizarre, but I think it works pretty well. It is almost entirely unregulated and, as a result, girls have tons and tons of choices.
 
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jb:

Give me a few days to respond to every one of your questions, but the most important one is that IF BUCKEYE HEAT OFFERS YOUR DAUGHTER A POSITION AND SHE ACCEPTS, she will not be cut until tryouts of the following year (if then). We do not recruit from other teams once the tryout process is completed and we will only consider accepting a player during the summer season if she has already severed her ties with her previous team. To my knowledge, no Buckeye Heat team has approached a player who is committed to another team during the summer travel ball season unless and until that player has severed her ties with the team that she was rostered with at the beginning of the travel ball season. Should we pick up such a player, it might mean fewer innings for the existing roster, but typically we would make sure that all the parent/families are on board for that result before we add that player to our roster.
 
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Feisty, I did not give any thought to trying out for different age groups and frankly, while I do know a number of girls trying out, I have yet to hear of any that wanted to tryout for anything above their age group. I am sure it happens just like in other sports, but is it really that prevalent? The point is having a game plan for tryouts and not throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks. I personally can't see carting my DD to 6, 7, 8 different tryouts. I believe in being realistic about her ablities and trying to find teams/programs that fit those abilities versus going to a whole bunch and seeing who might want her. If I can get her to 4 in a weekend, we would probably narrow things to 3 teams she would likely be a fit for(and would be a fit for her) and one above her abilities, whether that is the type of team in her age group or an age group up, just to give her that experience.
 
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cshilt:

I know that you are being ironic, but let me assure you that I am not being ironic in my proposal. I think it works better than the present situation. And I don't appreciate irony in response to my recollections about how hard it is on a young lady to be subject to the silly season. To suggest that these young ladies don't undergo an immense emotional response to the silly season is both ignorant and cruel.
 

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