3rd strike foul tip

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Ok this one came about the other day and it was one I had to wonder about, cause honestly I dont know, so I though I would ask on here.

Make it short and sweet. Third strike, foul tip straight back into cathers mitt. The ball then quickly pops up about 4-5 inches out of cathers mitt and falls right back in. Out was called, it was end of the game and no one seemed to think any different of it, but I just thought for a moment... does a catcher have to catch a foul tip cleanly, for the out to be called??

On one hand I say this is correct call, but it made me pause and think maybe not. I would not be 100% if I had to make the call on this, so I just gotta find out

 

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The ball never hit the ground and stayed in the control of the catcher?

 

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Kyle,

Ted looked this up after the game. At least for ASA, the rule states that the foul tip is a strike if the ball goes directly into the catcher's glove and is "legally caught" by the catcher. So we think that the call was correct if the HS rule is the same. The ball went right back off the bat into the catcher's glove, who then bobbled the ball in a way that caused the small "pop up" out of her glove. She then proceeded to catch the ball off of the pop up before it hit the ground. Sorry I don't have the exact language of the rule in front of me right now but I'll post it later.

 

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It would be an out to my knowledge. A catch is still a catch. It never hit the ground nor did it hit/touch anything or anyone else it is still a caught foul tip.

 

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It would be an out to my knowledge. A catch is still a catch. It never hit the ground nor did it hit/touch anything or anyone else it is still a caught foul tip.

Correct. It is an out.

Len

 

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I agree with Len and daboss, it's an out.

 

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I had this happen last year and the ump ruled that since the foul tip didn't rise above the catchers shoulders it was not an out.

 

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This one is interpreted the same for all rule sets, in both baseball and softball.

Yes, this was an out. But it was only an out because it was the third strike. If it had happened with zero or one strikes, it would not be an out. It would just be another strike added to the batter's count.

A foul tip is a batted ball that goes "sharply and directly" (basically in a straight line, with no perceptiple arc) from the bat to the catcher's hands/mitt and then is subsequently caught. It must first touch the hands/mitt. then any subsequent catch after that point must meet the same definition of "a catch" that applies on any other batted ball (ball may not touch the ground, the batter, the umpire, it may not be secured with detached equipment and must eventually be securely held in the hand or mitt).

A foul tip is treated the same as a swing and a miss. It is a strike to the batter and the ball remains live. The batter is out on a foul tip only if it is the third strike.

When the pitch is barely nicked by the bat, there are several things that can happen:

- Ball goes sharply and directly to the catcher's hands/mitt and is immediately caught. Strike and a live ball.

- Ball goes sharply and directly to the catcher's hands/mitt, then bounces up in the air. If caught by the catcher before touching anything else, this is a foul tip. Strike and a live ball.

- Ball goes sharply and directly to the catcher, but first hits something other than the catcher's hands/mitt before being caught. This is a foul ball (and all that entails).

- Ball comes off the bat in a path other than a "sharp and direct" straight line (ie: with a perceptible arc to it's path). This is NOT a foul tip and NOT a strike. It is treated the same as any other batted fly ball, anywhere else on the playing field. If legally caught (ball touches nothing besides a defensive player, without detached equipment, is securely held in the hands, etc.) then the batter is out- same as on any other caught fly ball.

 

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I had this happen last year and the ump ruled that since the foul tip didn't rise above the catchers shoulders it was not an out.

This is an long-enduring RULE MYTH. There is absolutely no height requirement that a batted ball must meet before it can be caught for an out.

It doesn't have to go higher than the batter's shoulder, or higher than her head, or six feet high or any other defined height.

The key here is the path the ball took off the bat. If it went "sharp and direct" to the catcher it is either going to be a foul tip (a strike) or become a foul ball.

If the ball came off the bat with "perceptible arc" then it is treated exactly the same as any other batted fly ball. It is either going to be caught for an out, become a foul ball, or become a fair ball (depending on where it is first touched or eventually settles).

One mistake people make that serves to confuse the issue is that they generically refer to any ball that hits the bat and goes back toward the catcher as a "foul tip". But a true foul tip has a very definite definition and specific rules to cover it. Not all batted balls that go back toward the catcher are foul tips!

 

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Bretman Great seeing you this weekend

 

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Thanks. Your tournament is always a pleasure!