3rd strike call, Rule?

[frenchy101010]

Question about the 3rd strike call. The count was 1 and 2, the pitcher pitches the ball, the batter swings and misses, the ball bounces on the ground after crossing the plate, the catcher catches the ball on the bounce. Does the batter get to run? If so why.

On the same play, there was a runner on 3rd. In these games there is no stealing home. But when the ball was thrown to first the ump allowed the girl to come home, he said since the ball was put into play the runner could run home.

When questioned about both he took it seriously personal, running straight to the dugout fence, its my call, its my call. First time in three years of softball that an umpire looked like he was going to throw me out of the game, LOL.

 

[coachjwb]

Yes, the batter can run to first base in this situation because of the dropped 3rd strike rule, and I would also tend to agree that if there's a league rule about not stealing home that it should not apply when another play is being made in the field.

 

[Westler33]

Sounds like blue was right but like coach said if the rule says no stealing home then you would think that the only way that you come home is on a hit or walked in.

 

[coachjwb]

Westler ... I was actually saying the runner on 3B should be allowed to go when another play is made on the field ... that's no longer a steal, but a fielder's choice ...

 

[Pacerdad57]

If the catcher handles the ball on the bounce after the third swing why would the dropped third strike rule be invoked?
the catcher didn't drop the ball, right? She caught it on the bounce after the missed swing....
or am i missing something so obvious that it went right by me?

 

[coachjwb]

I'm not a rule expert, and perhaps the Dropped 3rd strike either isn't the right name or is a bit of a misnomer, but if the catcher doesn't catch the ball clean in the air, the batter can run and must be put out if either first base is open or if there are 2 outs.

 

[freddieball]

Catcher must catch the 3rd strike, even on a poor pitch the rule still implies 3rd strike needs caught. Batters use it to their advantage all the time when the pitcher throws dirtballs or over their head. In Frenchy's case I am pretty sure he is talking about 9u and they are just getting into player pitch so I would not think that a 9u player would really know when to swing at a wild pitch for the sake of drop 3rd strike. My dd is 9u also and wow they swing at everything under the sun. In the case of catching the ball off a bounce the catcher just needs to tag the batter. Then there is no throw, and the run at 3rd stays. Once the ball is thrown to first the ball in in play so the runner at third is not techincally stealing home.

 

[BA824]

On the drop 3rd strike rule it only matters if ball hit the ground. Even if catcher catches it clean off the ground the fact it hit the ground allows the batter to run to 1st

 

[Comp]

If a pitched ball touches the ground before it reaches the catcher, it is considered to be an uncaught pitch. If it is strike 3 and first is unoccupied, or occupied with 2 outs the batter is free to attempt to advance to 1st.

ASA has not used the 10U B rules of no stealing of home, only 1 base per steal attempt etc in years. Those rules also did not provide for a D3K rule so I am surprised someone is using part of the old rules but still allowing the D3K. But to answer the question about the runner on 3 advancing, even under the old ASA rules the runner on 3 was free to advance if a play was being made on another runner.

 

[Dawgsdad]

Sounds like a possible rec or 8u travel game. Its rare here to be allowed for a batter to run on a drop third strike and not be able to steal home. As for the drop third strike, yes if first base is open or if 2 outs whether or not 1st is occupied. Now for not stealing home. The ball being put into play is an incorrect call. Based on the rules I am familiar with here. SOGFSA. If that is the case, you could steal home when a runner is attempting to steal 2nd and the catcher throws down but you cannot steal home. The rule that we have had in the past in younger ages is you can only steal home after you have reached 3rd and safe. The next pitch is thrown and either the catcher or pitcher attempts a pick off play at 3rd only. Then the runner may advance.

 

[FastBat]

Doesn't really matter about the K, the batter runner was smart to run, this is why you run on everything, it drew the throw. Unfortunately, for the defensive team, who probably got the out (from a K) but the run scored. Lesson learned for me, continue drilling to my kid, run on everything and when in doubt, make the play until the ump says stop!

 

[crystlemc]

The dropped 3rd strike rule is actually the "uncaught 3rd strike rule". There is no way to catch a ball on the ground.

 

[frenchy101010]

Thanks everyone for the responses. It was a 9u/10u fall ball game. The no stealing home rule is/was just a league rule.

 

[Pacerdad57]

The dropped 3rd strike rule is actually the "uncaught 3rd strike rule". There is no way to catch a ball on the ground.

Thanks for the clarification. I was confused on the dropped called, not really dropped, but uncaught.
still learning all the fine points.

 

[cz fastpitch fan]

In general, the "Dropped 3rd Strike" name should be changed to "Un-caught third strike". if we can change our mind set about it, then it would make this easier for all to understand. But, it's the way we grew up...."Dropped 3rd strike...the batter can run".
The word "drop" makes it seem that the catcher must touch the ball....she doesn't even have to touch the ball. It just simply needs to hit anything else before the catcher's glove.
For example...the count could be 2-2 with 0 outs & first is unoccupied (establishing that she CAN run if "dropped third"...the pitch sails way high.....hits the back stop and before it is caught, the catcher spins around & runs back to catch the ball....it has never touched the ground. However, it hits the backstop....strange situation, but had the batter swung at this pitch...she could run!
The pitch must come directly from the pitcher's hand to the catcher's glove & be caught in order to prevent the batter from going anywhere.
If the ball hits her chest protector & then the catcher catches the ball....it is NOT a clean catch....the batter can run!
Have fun!

 

[frenchy101010]

Can't wait to get into tourney time, it should be real interesting moving to the 9u/10u games with some of the rules, LOL.

 

[BretMan2]

If the ball hits her chest protector & then the catcher catches the ball....it is NOT a clean catch....the batter can run!

With respect to an uncaught third strike, this is NOT correct.

I think that maybe you are mixing up the catch requirements for a foul tip, which is something completely different. For a foul tip (ie: a ball that is actually nicked by the bat and goes straight back to the catcher), the ball must travel directly from the bat and first touch the catcher's hands/mitt before it is caught.

For a legal catch of a third strike, the catch needs to meet the same definition of "a catch" that applies to the catch of a batted ball for an out. That is, the ball must be airbourne, or in-flight, from the pitcher's hand to the point it's caught, it can't touch the ground, a fence, the backstop, the batter or the umpire before it's caught, it can't be caught with detached equipment, it may first rebound off of or be trapped against the catcher's body, so long as the catcher eventually secures it in the hand or mitt and demonstrates control of the ball.

In the example you gave, this would be a catch and the batter would be out on strike three.

 

[SonicMojo]

With respect to an uncaught third strike, this is NOT correct.

I think that maybe you are mixing up the catch requirements for a foul tip, which is something completely different. For a foul tip (ie: a ball that is actually nicked by the bat and goes straight back to the catcher), the ball must travel directly from the bat and first touch the catcher's hands/mitt before it is caught.

Not to threadjack, but you made me curious. Does this mean that if a foul tip first glances off the glove and then the catcher traps it against her equipment that it's an out?

 

[Comp]

A ball trapped against the body or equipment is never a caught ball until controlled in the hand or the glove.

 

[BretMan2]

Not to threadjack, but you made me curious. Does this mean that if a foul tip first glances off the glove and then the catcher traps it against her equipment that it's an out?

Assuming that the ball is eventually held securely in the hand or mitt after it's trapped against the body...

Not necessarily an out, but it would be a strike. It's only an out if it's the third strike.

On a foul tip, as long as the first thing the ball touches after coming off the bat is the catcher's hands or mitt, it may travel on and hit the catcher elsewhere, on the body or on her equipment. If the ball is then eventually caught, without having hit the ground, batter, umpire, etc. (all of the usual requirements for "a catch"), you have a valid catch and a strike to the batter.