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I heard that ASA is now amending the rules and saying that no college player can play at 18U A as well as B or Gold. Has anyone heard that? So basically if you play college ball you cannot be on an 18U ASA sanctioned roster.
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Just where are these girls suppose to play now? I think if ASA wants to make a rule change like that why don't they make it in 2011. Lot of girls come back from college and they want to just play softball. No pressure, just play softball with their friends. It's kinda late in the year for these girls to find a team to play on. Not happy with ASA
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Wouldn't they play 23U I think there would be an increase of these teams to fill the void ???
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question? As a TD how do you police this rule? College player.
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TDs can make their own ruling as long as the tourney is not a qualifier.
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so your saying "let them play"? I don't think Mr. ASA will like that.
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heartbreakers,
I don't see how you can police the teams--about all you can do is be prepared to act on a protest. USSSA tried a similiar rule against college players a couple of years ago and it was a failure. Why shouldn't a 18 yr old be allowed to play 18A, 18B, or Gold--just as long as the team classification is correct--that is, not understated.
I don't see how you can police the teams--about all you can do is be prepared to act on a protest. USSSA tried a similiar rule against college players a couple of years ago and it was a failure. Why shouldn't a 18 yr old be allowed to play 18A, 18B, or Gold--just as long as the team classification is correct--that is, not understated.
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The other coaches will police this. At the 18 level, these coaches know each other and the teams. They will certainly know if a college player is playing on the other team. It doesn't matter if you dont know the team or not. A coach, former player, disgrutled parent, will let someone know in a second.
Also, why risk being thrown out of a tournament. You might one or two idiots out there, but it will not be an epidemic.
Also, why risk being thrown out of a tournament. You might one or two idiots out there, but it will not be an epidemic.
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Heartbreaker- if its not a qualifier you can amend ASA rules and allow college players.
Why the big rush? If they had to change it at least give a years notice for 2011. If there was a worry about stacking teams with college players limit it to two per team or something. This is a dumb rule.
Why the big rush? If they had to change it at least give a years notice for 2011. If there was a worry about stacking teams with college players limit it to two per team or something. This is a dumb rule.
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I agree why the rush, pretty big rule change to make all of a sudden. Make it for 2011 to let this years girls play one last time at 18. How do you tell a player she can't play now? Not happy!!
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Gary Haning has coached the OC Batbusters since 1983, his teams have won 5 Gold championships, 2 18A, 1 18U, AND finished 2nd on 8 occasions. The following is a posting by him in August of 2009, effectively outlining the tnmt he started to address the concerns he and a number of other Gold teams had with the way that ASA was running the gold tnmt, I think you will find that the ASA actions in Reno are at best a "knee jerk" reaction to Gary aligning most of the top 40 Gold teams in the country behind his event and supporting the format and changes he has outlined.
THE QUOTE: (sorry I don't know how to Italicize characters here)
I have to admit that I don?t read the softball boards too much, the Father of one of my players told me there was quite a bit of talk and speculation about the Premier Girl?s Fastpitch Tournament for 2010 and beyond and I wanted to give a brief explanation. Sorry but I will not be able to answer a lot of questions, information about the tournament(s) will be available at http://premiergirlsfastpitch.com over the next few weeks.
Some of the what is mentioned here is not totally worked out as I have to wait for the return from Gold Nationals of the other coaches involved in planning whose teams did not stink up the Gold Nationals such as mine did.
First, this ABSOLUTELY IS NOT a Gary Haning vs ASA issue, I am one person, I have one team and after two consecutive bad Nationals that team barely qualifies for an invitation to what we are planning. A number of long-time Gold coaches have discussed this for years and now we are going to try and implement what we feel is a better way of doing things.
Remember that this is an overview and may change in some way. Only players who fit the Jan. 1 age cutoff and have a current year HS identification or can show that they are home schooled and their would-be grad class is from the current year or later will be eligible. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE, except that we may decide to include JC players
There will be two 18U Divisions, both will play in Huntington Beach at the main complex the second division could have some games at the new Fountain Valley complex, the exact number of each is to be decided but 48 and 32 is a rough guess. Some teams will be invited to each division, there will also be qualifiers throughout the country. The teams listed below have accepted invitations to the upper level tournament. No invitations have been yet offered for the lower level event.
Sorcerer Gold
Gold Coast Hurricanes
Worth Firecrackers
So Cal Choppers
Corona Angels Marty
So Cal Athletics
Valley Breeze
Georgia Elite
East Cobb Bullets
AZ Hot Shots Gatti
Wichita Mustangs
Beverly Bandits
So Illinois Force
Texas Impact Gold
Virginia Shamrocks
Texas Glory
OC Batbusters
We have invited some other well-known, successful teams but we are not ready to list those teams until we are certain of their interest. We also are inviting teams from all of the prominent softball playing countries in the world. We do not care of it is an all-star team or a top club team. We are putting together qualifiers around our country to add teams beyond the invitees
We plan to have a 16U division that will pitch at 43?, we may have a 14U division.
We will have the use of the new Fountain Valley fields as well as Col Bill Barber in Irvine.
The dates are in August but we have decided to to wait until after we have a meeting amongst ourselves as to whether it is the first or second week, sorry that I posted the earlier dates but I was in a hurry to get something done.
We hope to play all championships on the same day at the Bill Barber Stadium, we have some very promising talks going about these games being televised, at least on a delayed basis. NO FALSE PROMISES, NOTHING IS CERTAIN AS TO TV.
There will no gate passes nor entrance fees for spectators. College coaches will be fed and informed and not asked to pay for a booklet.
That is it for now, look at our website for updates.
WEST
Don Minard
Bruce Richardson
Gary Haning
Once they are all set we will list the committees for elsewhere
THE QUOTE: (sorry I don't know how to Italicize characters here)
I have to admit that I don?t read the softball boards too much, the Father of one of my players told me there was quite a bit of talk and speculation about the Premier Girl?s Fastpitch Tournament for 2010 and beyond and I wanted to give a brief explanation. Sorry but I will not be able to answer a lot of questions, information about the tournament(s) will be available at http://premiergirlsfastpitch.com over the next few weeks.
Some of the what is mentioned here is not totally worked out as I have to wait for the return from Gold Nationals of the other coaches involved in planning whose teams did not stink up the Gold Nationals such as mine did.
First, this ABSOLUTELY IS NOT a Gary Haning vs ASA issue, I am one person, I have one team and after two consecutive bad Nationals that team barely qualifies for an invitation to what we are planning. A number of long-time Gold coaches have discussed this for years and now we are going to try and implement what we feel is a better way of doing things.
Remember that this is an overview and may change in some way. Only players who fit the Jan. 1 age cutoff and have a current year HS identification or can show that they are home schooled and their would-be grad class is from the current year or later will be eligible. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE, except that we may decide to include JC players
There will be two 18U Divisions, both will play in Huntington Beach at the main complex the second division could have some games at the new Fountain Valley complex, the exact number of each is to be decided but 48 and 32 is a rough guess. Some teams will be invited to each division, there will also be qualifiers throughout the country. The teams listed below have accepted invitations to the upper level tournament. No invitations have been yet offered for the lower level event.
Sorcerer Gold
Gold Coast Hurricanes
Worth Firecrackers
So Cal Choppers
Corona Angels Marty
So Cal Athletics
Valley Breeze
Georgia Elite
East Cobb Bullets
AZ Hot Shots Gatti
Wichita Mustangs
Beverly Bandits
So Illinois Force
Texas Impact Gold
Virginia Shamrocks
Texas Glory
OC Batbusters
We have invited some other well-known, successful teams but we are not ready to list those teams until we are certain of their interest. We also are inviting teams from all of the prominent softball playing countries in the world. We do not care of it is an all-star team or a top club team. We are putting together qualifiers around our country to add teams beyond the invitees
We plan to have a 16U division that will pitch at 43?, we may have a 14U division.
We will have the use of the new Fountain Valley fields as well as Col Bill Barber in Irvine.
The dates are in August but we have decided to to wait until after we have a meeting amongst ourselves as to whether it is the first or second week, sorry that I posted the earlier dates but I was in a hurry to get something done.
We hope to play all championships on the same day at the Bill Barber Stadium, we have some very promising talks going about these games being televised, at least on a delayed basis. NO FALSE PROMISES, NOTHING IS CERTAIN AS TO TV.
There will no gate passes nor entrance fees for spectators. College coaches will be fed and informed and not asked to pay for a booklet.
That is it for now, look at our website for updates.
WEST
Don Minard
Bruce Richardson
Gary Haning
Once they are all set we will list the committees for elsewhere
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I have also received several inquiries regarding a thread from earlier in the fall which caused some controversy, as I stated at the time I believed that the ASA would address the concerns regarding eligibility for "championship play" and misinformation that has been circulated regarding teams and players playing in different "classifications, I believe the following from the ASA Code changes PDF which is available on the ASA Website to anyone will establish, as I mentioned previously that, it doesn't matter what you are told, when you get to your national you are subject to the strictest rulings possible regarding ASA Code and the misinformed are basically being thrown under the bus. If I were a coach that played up in ANY ASA Qualifier during the Fall I would certainly take the time to contact OK City state the circumstances and secure in writing a ruling as to my players and teams eligibility for the 2010 Season, it is a hassle but I think the fact that they chose to clarify the responsibility for elegibility as being that of the Player, Manager, and Team and basically are stating that anything but a decision by OK City that is contrary to ASA Code is NOT VALID, whether it was your ASA Commisioner or anyone else including tnmt directors.
ARTICLE 501A: New and Re-number
ELIGIBILITY COMPLIANCE REQUIRED BY EACH PLAYER, MANAGER and TEAM
It is the duty of each player, player?s parent (if applicable), manager, coach and team to review ASA?s eligibility requirements and comply with ASA?s eligibility requirements. Each team manager/coach is responsible for complying with the eligibility requirements and other requirements set forth in the ASA Code as to his/her team. This specifically includes, without limitation, eligibility requirements pertaining to proper classification, proper divisions, eligible pick up player requirements, eligible age requirements and all other eligibility requirements.
As to eligibility matters, any assurances or statements from ASA members, ASA commissioners or ASA officials other than ASA?s Executive Director are not binding and shall not be binding upon ASA and shall not constitute a valid excuse for a team?s, manager?s or player?s failure to comply with any eligibility requirement. ASA disclaims any and all liability for any player, team, manager or coach?s reliances upon assurances of persons other than ASA?s Executive Director. ASA disclaims any and all liability for any player, team, manager or coach?s failure to comply with all eligibility requirements.
Teams, players, coaches and managers that are ineligible under the ASA Code and that incur travel and other expenses in connection with an ASA tournament do so at their own risk and peril. Teams, players, coaches and managers that are ineligible under the ASA Code are subject to disqualification or forfeiture at any time, as otherwise provided for in the ASA Code (i.e. upon the timely protest of any other team or official).
Any ASA official?s signature (i.e. Commissioner?s signature) on a roster form or any other document shall not be considered as a determination of the eligibility of a player or team. Eligibility of players or teams shall be governed as otherwise provided in the Code. Any solicitation or invitation for a team to participate in an ASA tournament by a Tournament Director or other ASA Official shall not be considered a determination of that team?s eligibility. Eligibility of players or teams shall be exclusively governed as provided in the Code.
Comments: Establishes compliances for Player?s, Managers, and Teams
ARTICLE 501A: New and Re-number
ELIGIBILITY COMPLIANCE REQUIRED BY EACH PLAYER, MANAGER and TEAM
It is the duty of each player, player?s parent (if applicable), manager, coach and team to review ASA?s eligibility requirements and comply with ASA?s eligibility requirements. Each team manager/coach is responsible for complying with the eligibility requirements and other requirements set forth in the ASA Code as to his/her team. This specifically includes, without limitation, eligibility requirements pertaining to proper classification, proper divisions, eligible pick up player requirements, eligible age requirements and all other eligibility requirements.
As to eligibility matters, any assurances or statements from ASA members, ASA commissioners or ASA officials other than ASA?s Executive Director are not binding and shall not be binding upon ASA and shall not constitute a valid excuse for a team?s, manager?s or player?s failure to comply with any eligibility requirement. ASA disclaims any and all liability for any player, team, manager or coach?s reliances upon assurances of persons other than ASA?s Executive Director. ASA disclaims any and all liability for any player, team, manager or coach?s failure to comply with all eligibility requirements.
Teams, players, coaches and managers that are ineligible under the ASA Code and that incur travel and other expenses in connection with an ASA tournament do so at their own risk and peril. Teams, players, coaches and managers that are ineligible under the ASA Code are subject to disqualification or forfeiture at any time, as otherwise provided for in the ASA Code (i.e. upon the timely protest of any other team or official).
Any ASA official?s signature (i.e. Commissioner?s signature) on a roster form or any other document shall not be considered as a determination of the eligibility of a player or team. Eligibility of players or teams shall be governed as otherwise provided in the Code. Any solicitation or invitation for a team to participate in an ASA tournament by a Tournament Director or other ASA Official shall not be considered a determination of that team?s eligibility. Eligibility of players or teams shall be exclusively governed as provided in the Code.
Comments: Establishes compliances for Player?s, Managers, and Teams
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Sounds like if your tournament is sanctioned ASA, Qualifier or Not, the eligiblity rules must be followed. No College players allowed on an ASA "B" roster, or ASA "Gold" roster. Only teams sanctioned ASA "A" can have a college player rostered. 
Tournaments costs a lot of money already, not to mention gas, food, hotel, etc. A coach would not look good if he/she were caught, disqualified and thrown out of a tournament for violating eligibility rules. Would not be good for anyone in that organization. jmho
Tournaments costs a lot of money already, not to mention gas, food, hotel, etc. A coach would not look good if he/she were caught, disqualified and thrown out of a tournament for violating eligibility rules. Would not be good for anyone in that organization. jmho
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I'm a newbie here, but I just wanted to say that what really bothers me about this change is that teams have already been selected and many have already played in tournaments in their selected classifications or registered for tournaments in their classification. How can the powers that be make a rule change that effects these teams so adversely by making it effective for the 2010 season? A change in the pitching distance or allowing metal cleats is not a problem, but this effects teams that have already been selected, especially in the gold division. And it doesn't just effect the college players on gold teams, who ultimately should be removed from the gold teams-it will effect girls who as high schoolers signed up to play gold and may now be reclassified into "A" because their coach wants to retain their college players. That, to me, would be a breach of contract. The whole thing is just wrong IMO. I'm not against the rule change, just the effective date.
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There will be a lot of teams that will have to scramble, that's for sure. Including our team as we have college players on our roster and play Gold. They will not be able to reclassify because ASA is bringing up emergency legislation to prohibit college players in 18A as well. So in my opinion you have two choices. Change your roster (merge teams or pick up players from teams that fold) or play in other associations AFA, etc.
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I don't know why college players would want to play 18U tourneys at all. Those tourneys should be to help promote high school girls who are trying to get to the college level of softball. Those who already play college ball should play 23U either in local leagues or at tournaments with 23U divisions.
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batesdball, have you told your players yet? If you did how did you break the news to them? I have one to release and she has been on the team for two years.
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You know some of these players want to play with their old teammates and coaches one more time. Remember, just to play softball!!
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I have a real problem with ASA mandating no college girls can play 18U, even though it doesn't affect my team this year. Once again, like the pitching rule, they are making rules to appease the college coaches with little to no regard on how it will affect players, teams, or the game. Don't get me wrong, without college coaches there is no need for travel ball, but some common sense has to be used.
My DD is 17, and a first year 18U player, and will play college ball next year. With this new rule she will be unable to play her second year of 18U ball. Something about this just doesn't seem right no matter how you look at it.
My DD is 17, and a first year 18U player, and will play college ball next year. With this new rule she will be unable to play her second year of 18U ball. Something about this just doesn't seem right no matter how you look at it.
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We are not sure what we are going to do yet. We only play a few (3) Gold tournaments, so we may play those without college players and look to other sanctioning bodies for the rest of the summer. Just waiting to see how it shakes out.
