Bat rolling, and shaving. Really??? (The Softball Zone Radio Show Thread of the Week)

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

Had it advertised on their FB page until this post popped up on OFC, suddenly that post is gone.

Here is a cached copy of the FB post from Google -

Field of Dreams Practice & Training Academy
March 25 ? Edited

******New Service coming soon to Field of Dreams***

*******************Bat Rolling**************************

That's right....Field of Dreams is proud to bring top of the line bat rolling service to Lancaster and Fairfield County to help
speed up the natural break in process for your composite bats. We will be using a top of the line automatic bat rolling
machine to provide the most consistent, ...predicable result possible. People have tried many different methods like
squeezing the barrel in a vise, hammering the barrel with a mallet or hitting a telephone pole with the bat for several hours.
Bat rolling is not altering a bat (like shaving is). Shaving is the process when people actually remove the end cap & use
tools to remove some of the composite material from inside the barrel to make the wall thinner. This is an alteration of the
bat and is illegal in all levels of play! Rolling a bat is merely an acceleration of the normal break-in process.

Breaking in your composite bat is necessary for you to enjoy its full potential. Before it was learned that composite bats
became hotter after there were broken in, the bats were tested new. Once those bats were broken in, they could actually
exceed the maximum allowable batted ball speed. This is why there was so much controversy over bat rolling and other
accelerated bat break-in (ABI) methods. Today's newly manufactured bats are all rolled before being tested in order to
measure their maximum performance. That way, the governing bodies can be assured that no bat will be "too" hot for use.
If they do not pass these stringent tests, then those bats cannot be used in certain league, tourney or championship play.

Come see us soon to discuss how rolling your composite bat can help improve your batting performance. Rolling won't
help every bat, but it could help yours!

A brochure will be posted soon to help explain this service and hopefully answer many common questions.

Jason LeMaster, Krista Walton Riddle, Matt Colliton and 8 others like this.

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

As one of the owners of Field of Dreams it is my pleasure to explain. Yes, it is true that Field of Dreams was advertising bat rolling services. Slow pitch softball is very big in Central Ohio and there is a huge market for those services.
In light of all the controversy that has been created, we have asked our web designer to remove the advertisement for rolling services from our website. In fact, the machine has been removed from the premises. We don't want any negative press about this.

Owning a rolling machine is not illegal. Rolling a bat is not illegal. For a rolled bat to be used in a game in which it is specifically banned, ie. ASA, NSA (basically all youth Fastpitch) it IS illegal and that responsibility rests upon the owner of that bat. Nevertheless, the owners of FOD decided that for the sake of safety of children that we would not roll any youth bats. Don't point fingers at FOD...this service is the same thing as the companies who manufacture guns. It is up to the owner of the gun to ensure its legal use, not the manufacturer.

Now, let me make this point very clear...Field of Dreams' business is Field of Dreams business. We will not discuss the names of any customers, the makes or models of any bats that were or were not rolled. I repeat, we will not even answer the questions so don't ask. This is not admitting any wrong-doing...it simply is not anybody's business but ours.

If anyone suspects that a particular bat had been altered, there are protest procedures in place according to each sanctioning body and you are encouraged to use them. I am also the head coach of Ohio Glory '01 and I am saying this publicly on OFC right now...none of our bats have been altered. I also know that none of my parents have sent their bats away to one of the internet bat rollers either. I don't have any parents like that. I have made this point VERY clear to Mike Craig, the State Director for NSA, to the tourney director at this weekend's tournament as well as the UIC for this weekend's tournament. Furthermore I welcome them to inspect every single bat.
I will not allow anyone to cast any negative light over this team, over the players, or the entire Ohio Glory organization.
Parents...your children are 100% safe playing against my team. We do not have any altered bats.

Do not spread any rumors about something of which you do not know or have proof please.
Now, let's watch the girls play the game they love.

Now that somebody else posted the link to our website, it isn't me who hijacked the thread to try to promote Field of Dreams! Free hijack.
Chris Zaker
Ohio Glory '01
Co-Owner, Field of Dreams Practice Facility

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

As one of the owners of Field of Dreams it is my pleasure to explain. Yes, it is true that Field of Dreams was advertising bat rolling services. Slow pitch softball is very big in Central Ohio and there is a huge market for those services.
In light of all the controversy that has been created, we have asked our web designer to remove the advertisement for rolling services from our website. In fact, the machine has been removed from the premises. We don't want any negative press about this.

Owning a rolling machine is not illegal. Rolling a bat is not illegal. For a rolled bat to be used in a game in which it is specifically banned, ie. ASA, NSA (basically all youth Fastpitch) it IS illegal and that responsibility rests upon the owner of that bat. Nevertheless, the owners of FOD decided that for the sake of safety of children that we would not roll any youth bats. Don't point fingers at FOD...this service is the same thing as the companies who manufacture guns. It is up to the owner of the gun to ensure its legal use, not the manufacturer.

Now, let me make this point very clear...Field of Dreams' business is Field of Dreams business. We will not discuss the names of any customers, the makes or models of any bats that were or were not rolled. I repeat, we will not even answer the questions so don't ask. This is not admitting any wrong-doing...it simply is not anybody's business but ours.

If anyone suspects that a particular bat had been altered, there are protest procedures in place according to each sanctioning body and you are encouraged to use them. I am also the head coach of Ohio Glory '01 and I am saying this publicly on OFC right now...none of our bats have been altered. I also know that none of my parents have sent their bats away to one of the internet bat rollers either. I don't have any parents like that. I have made this point VERY clear to Mike Craig, the State Director for NSA, to the tourney director at this weekend's tournament as well as the UIC for this weekend's tournament. Furthermore I welcome them to inspect every single bat.
I will not allow anyone to cast any negative light over this team, over the players, or the entire Ohio Glory organization.
Parents...your children are 100% safe playing against my team. We do not have any altered bats.

Do not spread any rumors about something of which you do not know or have proof please.
Now, let's watch the girls play the game they love.

Now that somebody else posted the link to our website, it isn't me who hijacked the thread to try to promote Field of Dreams! Free hijack.
Chris Zaker
Ohio Glory '01
Co-Owner, Field of Dreams Practice Facility

Bat rolling is illegal in all play for USSSA,ASA and NSA mens womens youth You should really do your homework!

ASA
Rule 3 Equipment
"We have had several questions pertaining to bats and what is legally permissible to do to a bat. One item that appears to keep coming up is the rolling of bats for quicker break in of the fibers. There are those who maintain that rolling of one's bat is perfectly legal. According to Rule 3 Section 7 NOTE: ‘The characteristics of any approved equipment can not be changed. Examples'. Therefore, according to our rules, rolling of one's bat is illegal and would make that bat an altered bat according to Rule 1 Altered Bat: When the physical structure of a legal softball bat has been changed".


USSSA
"Altered Bats - Excessive Pressure
Included in the USSSA view of what is an altered or doctored bat are any bats that are subjected to pressure
in any manner that exceeds that of striking the bat against an approved ball traveling at game like speeds.
Such excess pressure would include, but is not limited to, any compression, rolling, placing in a vice,
hitting a stationary object such as a pole, etc".


NSA
"An altered bat is considered altered when the physical structure of the legal bat has been changed in any way, or when an illegal or non approved bat has been made up in such a way as to appear to be a legal bat. Examples of altering a bat are, but not limited to the following: Painting a bat, replacing the handle or shaving the handle or barrel or the taper changed in any way. Such as by sandpapering or applying a solvent to the surface such as fingernail polish remover or by any other means. Removing or replacing the plug or changed in any way other than factory repairs. Had the knob removed/ replaced or changed in any way or had anything removed or added to the inside or outside of the bat other than the legal way to tape the bat the specified and appropriate place as described in the NSA Rule Book". There is nothing specific about rolling but some could see this as a way to say it is illegal.

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

Here's the thing, there are new FP parents, who are not as versed in the rules of the sanctioning bodies as some of those posting here, that potentially saw the advertisement and believing the assertion rolling is completely 'legal' had their daughter's bat rolled. Did you inform FP parents that this was, in fact, considered altering? How many new FP parents now have a $300 that is 'illegal' for sanctioned play and never realized what they were doing to that very expensive piece of equipment?

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

Here's the thing, there are new FP parents, who are not as versed in the rules of the sanctioning bodies as some of those posting here, that potentially saw the advertisement and believing the assertion rolling is completely 'legal' had their daughter's bat rolled. Did you inform FP parents that this was, in fact, considered altering? How many new FP parents now have a $300 that is 'illegal' for sanctioned play and never realized what they were doing to that very expensive piece of equipment?

As I said, 0.

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

So even though this was stated

" Nevertheless, the owners of FOD decided that for the sake of safety of children that we would not roll any youth bats."

This:
Owning a rolling machine is not illegal. Rolling a bat is not illegal. For a rolled bat to be used in a game in which it is specifically banned, ie. ASA, NSA (basically all youth Fastpitch) it IS illegal and that responsibility rests upon the owner of that bat. Don't point fingers at FOD...this service is the same thing as the companies who manufacture guns. It is up to the owner of the gun to ensure its legal use, not the manufacturer.

And this:
Now, let me make this point very clear...Field of Dreams' business is Field of Dreams business. We will not discuss the names of any customers, the makes or models of any bats that were or were not rolled. I repeat, we will not even answer the questions so don't ask. This is not admitting any wrong-doing...it simply is not anybody's business but ours.

Just doesn't sound so good, or help your case in my opinion. Those points will still have people questioning. Less is more in this case

And, if one of the sanctioning bodies wants to know who you provided service to, they will get it. It's been done in the past.

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

Bat rolling is illegal in all play for USSSA,ASA and NSA mens womens youth You should really do your homework!

ASA
Rule 3 Equipment
"We have had several questions pertaining to bats and what is legally permissible to do to a bat. One item that appears to keep coming up is the rolling of bats for quicker break in of the fibers. There are those who maintain that rolling of one's bat is perfectly legal. According to Rule 3 Section 7 NOTE: ‘The characteristics of any approved equipment can not be changed. Examples'. Therefore, according to our rules, rolling of one's bat is illegal and would make that bat an altered bat according to Rule 1 Altered Bat: When the physical structure of a legal softball bat has been changed".


USSSA
"Altered Bats - Excessive Pressure
Included in the USSSA view of what is an altered or doctored bat are any bats that are subjected to pressure
in any manner that exceeds that of striking the bat against an approved ball traveling at game like speeds.
Such excess pressure would include, but is not limited to, any compression, rolling, placing in a vice,
hitting a stationary object such as a pole, etc".


NSA
"An altered bat is considered altered when the physical structure of the legal bat has been changed in any way, or when an illegal or non approved bat has been made up in such a way as to appear to be a legal bat. Examples of altering a bat are, but not limited to the following: Painting a bat, replacing the handle or shaving the handle or barrel or the taper changed in any way. Such as by sandpapering or applying a solvent to the surface such as fingernail polish remover or by any other means. Removing or replacing the plug or changed in any way other than factory repairs. Had the knob removed/ replaced or changed in any way or had anything removed or added to the inside or outside of the bat other than the legal way to tape the bat the specified and appropriate place as described in the NSA Rule Book". There is nothing specific about rolling but some could see this as a way to say it is illegal.

Beat me to it...I don't get the comment, because, basically - rolling a bat is illegal to be used in most if not all softball sanctioning bodies regardless of level.

Now I agree that shaving a bat is much more of a serious offense, but rolling is still illegal to those sanctioning bodies (ASA/NSA/USSSA - Youth & Adult).

Regardless of the comments, the business decision to offer that service sheds a negative light and to many people who don't know you personally will cast doubt.

 

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Well this thread just got really interesting...

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

And as the owner you think we believe your own dd hasn't had her bat rolled or other players on your team. Your own statement was it's FOR business and you won't give out names. Meaning you sold bat rolling service to FP girls that u won't give up the names. Why in the world would you even comment on this thread when you offer the service in your own building.

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

As one of the owners of Field of Dreams it is my pleasure to explain. Yes, it is true that Field of Dreams was advertising bat rolling services. Slow pitch softball is very big in Central Ohio and there is a huge market for those services.
In light of all the controversy that has been created, we have asked our web designer to remove the advertisement for rolling services from our website. In fact, the machine has been removed from the premises. We don't want any negative press about this.

Owning a rolling machine is not illegal. Rolling a bat is not illegal. For a rolled bat to be used in a game in which it is specifically banned, ie. ASA, NSA (basically all youth Fastpitch) it IS illegal and that responsibility rests upon the owner of that bat. Nevertheless, the owners of FOD decided that for the sake of safety of children that we would not roll any youth bats. Don't point fingers at FOD...this service is the same thing as the companies who manufacture guns. It is up to the owner of the gun to ensure its legal use, not the manufacturer.

Now, let me make this point very clear...Field of Dreams' business is Field of Dreams business. We will not discuss the names of any customers, the makes or models of any bats that were or were not rolled. I repeat, we will not even answer the questions so don't ask. This is not admitting any wrong-doing...it simply is not anybody's business but ours.

If anyone suspects that a particular bat had been altered, there are protest procedures in place according to each sanctioning body and you are encouraged to use them. I am also the head coach of Ohio Glory '01 and I am saying this publicly on OFC right now...none of our bats have been altered. I also know that none of my parents have sent their bats away to one of the internet bat rollers either. I don't have any parents like that. I have made this point VERY clear to Mike Craig, the State Director for NSA, to the tourney director at this weekend's tournament as well as the UIC for this weekend's tournament. Furthermore I welcome them to inspect every single bat.
I will not allow anyone to cast any negative light over this team, over the players, or the entire Ohio Glory organization.
Parents...your children are 100% safe playing against my team. We do not have any altered bats.

Do not spread any rumors about something of which you do not know or have proof please.
Now, let's watch the girls play the game they love.

Now that somebody else posted the link to our website, it isn't me who hijacked the thread to try to promote Field of Dreams! Free hijack.
Chris Zaker
Ohio Glory '01
Co-Owner, Field of Dreams Practice Facility

Dude, are you serious? Do you hold EVERY employee accountable, if so how? If Joe Smo wants little Suzi to have a rolled bat and one of the employees need a little additional cash, isn't the thought then planted?

You state this and then turn around and say "I make all my girls wears facemasks".

sprat22 or Chris, I need that Chris Berman--Come on man now

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

What he doesn't realize is he will never get out from under this. Every hard hit his team ever has will have a asterisk as to if it was a cheater bat or not. As a business owner is one thing but as a coach very poor decisions to say the least. I would not be surprised if future tournament directors town upon seeing your entry.

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

As one of the owners of Field of Dreams it is my pleasure to explain. Yes, it is true that Field of Dreams was advertising bat rolling services. Slow pitch softball is very big in Central Ohio and there is a huge market for those services.
In light of all the controversy that has been created, we have asked our web designer to remove the advertisement for rolling services from our website. In fact, the machine has been removed from the premises. We don't want any negative press about this.

Owning a rolling machine is not illegal. Rolling a bat is not illegal. For a rolled bat to be used in a game in which it is specifically banned, ie. ASA, NSA (basically all youth Fastpitch) it IS illegal and that responsibility rests upon the owner of that bat. Nevertheless, the owners of FOD decided that for the sake of safety of children that we would not roll any youth bats. Don't point fingers at FOD...this service is the same thing as the companies who manufacture guns. It is up to the owner of the gun to ensure its legal use, not the manufacturer.

Now, let me make this point very clear...Field of Dreams' business is Field of Dreams business. We will not discuss the names of any customers, the makes or models of any bats that were or were not rolled. I repeat, we will not even answer the questions so don't ask. This is not admitting any wrong-doing...it simply is not anybody's business but ours.

If anyone suspects that a particular bat had been altered, there are protest procedures in place according to each sanctioning body and you are encouraged to use them. I am also the head coach of Ohio Glory '01 and I am saying this publicly on OFC right now...none of our bats have been altered. I also know that none of my parents have sent their bats away to one of the internet bat rollers either. I don't have any parents like that. I have made this point VERY clear to Mike Craig, the State Director for NSA, to the tourney director at this weekend's tournament as well as the UIC for this weekend's tournament. Furthermore I welcome them to inspect every single bat.
I will not allow anyone to cast any negative light over this team, over the players, or the entire Ohio Glory organization.
Parents...your children are 100% safe playing against my team. We do not have any altered bats.

Do not spread any rumors about something of which you do not know or have proof please.
Now, let's watch the girls play the game they love.

Now that somebody else posted the link to our website, it isn't me who hijacked the thread to try to promote Field of Dreams! Free hijack.
Chris Zaker
Ohio Glory '01
Co-Owner, Field of Dreams Practice Facility

Your motto for Field of Dreams should be " If we roll it, they will come" :lmao:

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

I hope they do not sell any bats out of this place...Our teams were MIKEN sponsored in Mens Majors and from 2005 until 2009 in Fastpitch. I had the opportunity to tour the facility in Minnesota and was told as part of our sponsorship our team bats better not be messed with and our contract had a "100K" fine if a team or player did not promote the product in a good light.
We also had the ability to sell BLEMS and over the years the few warranty returns we had were checked for alterations...ZERO found with non-warrantable issues.

During our tour they discussed rolling and how when done, it can alter the outer structure of the bat unseen resulting in a fracture where the barrel or end cap could come off. Additional flex stress running down from the barrel can cause the bat to break at the handle as well making the bat a projectile.

Bottom Line is Bat rolling is against the rules, not recommended from bat manufactures, can void warranties, and is a HUGE safety and legal issue.

Like others have posted. TDs will consider all information about a team or organization when allowing them in their events. This has put his team in the (red flag) category that I am sure alot of TDs will want to stay clear of for nothing more than the "what if" factor.
Heaven forbid there is an injury and a TD is questioned about this now public knowledge.

I feel for the parents and players on this team since they now unwittingly have a cloud over them...

Bat Alteration Prohibited

Miken does not approve of or authorize the purchaser or any other person to physically alter the bat in any manner for use in any game under the jurisdiction or sponsorship of an association or organization that has set standards for the performance of bats. Alteration includes but is not limited to bat doctoring, vicing, rolling, hitting objects other than approved balls, and any other action that is designed to change the character or performance attributes of the bat in any manner. Any alteration of the bat will nullify Miken's limited warranty. Furthermore, should injuries or other damages occur as a result of any use of an altered bat, the person who altered the bat, along with the player who knowingly used the altered bat, may be held liable for such injuries or damage.

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

Beat me to it...I don't get the comment, because, basically - rolling a bat is illegal to be used in most if not all softball sanctioning bodies regardless of level.

Now I agree that shaving a bat is much more of a serious offense, but rolling is still illegal to those sanctioning bodies (ASA/NSA/USSSA - Youth & Adult).

Regardless of the comments, the business decision to offer that service sheds a negative light and to many people who don't know you personally will cast doubt.

Sure I understand that. Those who do know me personally can attest to my ethics and my coaching ability.
Field of Dreams has done a LOT of good to a lot of kids. They will continue to come and improve their games.

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

Wowza. I'm thinking my DD's organization would be asking for this coach's resignation letter........like yesterday. Maybe even all the coaches on this team would go since they are all probably aware of what's been going on at this point. And I KNOW my DD would not continue to be playing for someone who has absolutely no sense of reality or common sense. "I will not allow anyone to cast any negative light over this team, over the players, or the entire Ohio Glory organization." Too late Bro.

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

Hawks Ferrigno you are coming close to attacking my personal reputation. I would appreciate you not making this personal. I don't know you...you don't know me. I have already made it clear that none of our equipment has bean altered and am willing to offer them up for inspection. We answer that question at every game "is your team legally and properly equipped."
the reason I stated that we wouldn't answer is because it is personal. Fact is, we have only rolled a few bats in total. One was a test-case old Miken Rain that is kept at FOD as a loaner bat. None have been girls FP bats.

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

You've failed to realize that IF someone gets hurt playing against your team and a lawsuit is filed, all of your service records would be requested by the lawyers and courts. Unfortunately, you are not covered under any laws not to produce them. I run a service company and service records are a matter of public record if requested by any Authority Having Jurisdiction, Legal Firm, or court. Being a bat "doctor" does not cover you under HIPPA laws.......

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

I will not allow anyone to cast any negative light over this team, over the players, or the entire Ohio Glory organization.

People could try. But, you actually did it to yourself, team and organization by your “business decision”.

 

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Re: Bat rolling, and shaving. Really???

dude....