Hitting and Hitters Discussion Batted ball safety poll

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But Hawks - if a dangerous stretch of a 55 mph road has numerous wrecks and related personal injuries would the DOT not look to control that areas speed? And if they didn't wouldn't the public band together and demand a change. Heck - when I lived in Columbus when that exact thing happened on 315 and at the intersection of Hamilton Rd and Groves Rd. But for some reason when are kids are involved we simply say tough it up and get better. Wear a mask and hope you don't take a liner that shatters her kneecap.

my DD wears a mask and Heart guard. Mask are for saftey as seat belts in cars. Bat limits are tested and limits are set for saftey, as speed limits are set on the roads. changing the equipment is the same as putting governors on a car to ensure that it cant go past a safe speed. Be smart buckle up, I mean wear a mask

 

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Len - sad but true......

See what the SS and 2B are wearing next year at 16u when colleges are looking.......\

Len

 

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But Hawks - if a dangerous stretch of a 55 mph road has numerous wrecks and related personal injuries would the DOT not look to control that areas speed? And if they didn't wouldn't the public band together and demand a change. Heck - when I lived in Columbus when that exact thing happened on 315 and at the intersection of Hamilton Rd and Groves Rd. But for some reason when are kids are involved we simply say tough it up and get better. Wear a mask and hope you don't take a liner that shatters her kneecap.

I agree, untill things are changed my DD will wear a mask

 

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Sadly, I am not surprised at all by the poll results so far. I think Lenski nailed it. Think about it. Can anybody truly deny with a clear conscience that the bats and balls have become the CAUSE of the problem? If your roof leaks, do you ignore the hole in the roof and just buy more buckets? If your tire has a slow leak, do you continue just filling it with air? Silly, right? You only put those things off if you do not have the finances to afford the fix. But when people are plunking down $300+ for a bat, lack of funds is a poor excuse. So if your own kid is at risk of getting killed from high tech equipment that only recently became available, what do you do? Buy more buckets? I don't get it...

 

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The results of this poll amazes me so far. How can we as softball people claim to be in favor of adding safety to the sport and not address the root cause? It isn't that reaction time of the athletes over the years has decreased. The players are better trained and to an extent better athletes. Its the equipment!!!

I think it's a combination of the improved training and the bats - they've both led to faster balls in play which reduced the time to react. I'd favor changing the balls rather than the bats - balls are a lot easier to control and they need to be purchased every year anyway. Also, changing the balls would greatly reduce the demand for high performance bats, especially altered ones.ASA has been researching reducing the hardness (i.e. compression) of balls while maintaining the 'bounciness' (i.e. COR - coefficient of restitution) for both hitting and fielding. They've had Reduced Injury Factor (RIF) balls for the younger ages for a number of years. The problem we had with them was in the infield because they tended to bounce higher than expected on the 2nd bounce - like a superball. I'm hoping they succeed in developing a safer ball that plays true.

Why did the sport require face masks on helmets? Why are there safety bags at first? Why are players no longer allowed to "block the plate/base" on out plays, why did they move the pitchers plate back, why are they concerned about which ondeck circle is used, why are facilities adding spectator netting, the list goes on and on. And yet the two biggest contributors to softball related injuries (and some of these are catystrofic) get ho-hummed. I will tell you why..... Ego and money - period

I'm mainly concerned about the catastrophic injuries that are life-altering. Some balls are hit so hard that the P or corner IF has no chance to defend themself. Masks are the best protection for most of these.

 

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Sadly, I am not surprised at all by the poll results so far. I think Lenski nailed it. Think about it. Can anybody truly deny with a clear conscience that the bats and balls have become the CAUSE of the problem? If your roof leaks, do you ignore the hole in the roof and just buy more buckets? If your tire has a slow leak, do you continue just filling it with air? Silly, right? You only put those things off if you do not have the finances to afford the fix. But when people are plunking down $300+ for a bat, lack of funds is a poor excuse. So if your own kid is at risk of getting killed from high tech equipment that only recently became available, what do you do? Buy more buckets? I don't get it...

stop playing??

 

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My DD pitches as well and she has no choice, she wears a mask. Like many other pitchers, she is about 37-38 feet away when she releases the ball. Depending on the pitch, she does not have much time to get ready for the hit. She got hit twice this year, once in the forearm and once in the shin. Both incidences required x-rays. She loves pitching and will continue to do so, but she is a believer in wearing a mask (even if most High School pitchers do not). The thing to remember is at some point, softball will be over. For most players it is after their senior year of High School. For others, it may be college. But it will end. Why risk an serious injury. Wear the protective gear!!!

 

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When 8 year olds hit bombs like Barry Bonds it's the equipment. So the shortgame would make a comeback, Oh wait! that means that most pitchers would have to learn to field and throw to first.....

 

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When they go off to college the balls do not get any softer... (47cor 400 comp) and the bats are the best available..

I am in favor of the ladies being 'properly equipped" and prepared as they make the move. Way too much protection available for those at the most risk to suffer life threatening or disfiguring injuries... and BTW outside of mask a lot of Collage /Pro players wear protection...

Like the equipment, todays players are bigger, stronger and train much more than in years past add in top flight equipment and it is a question of when not if.

I do think bat / ball restrictions need to be in place at the lower divisions of play for obvious reasons.

 

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I think any change to the bat and ball would be made at all levels. It was done in NCAA Baseball first and the power and average numbers were immediate. It is a bit odd that baseball made the first of many changes and we are lagging behind in softball.

SoCal_Dad made the point I have stated for years - the training has made such improvements in the last 10-15 years that some of that exit speed can be attributed to that. But when I watch an average 12u team play and they have kids hitting 200 ft home runs the technology effect is obvious. When my daughter played her team was one of the best teams in her age group for 4-5 years. Every player on that team that wanted to play college softball did. They all had great hitting instrutors. They worked hard. And I bet they did not hit a total of 6 home runs that entire time. You see teams that do that in one tournament these days. HS and College games where half swings result in 240 ft home runs are seen all the time. The NCAA is taking about moving the fences back to control it. Seems odd to me.

When they go off to college the balls do not get any softer... (47cor 400 comp) and the bats are the best available..

I am in favor of the ladies being 'properly equipped" and prepared as they make the move. Way too much protection available for those at the most risk to suffer life threatening or disfiguring injuries... and BTW outside of mask a lot of Collage /Pro players wear protection...

Like the equipment, todays players are bigger, stronger and train much more than in years past add in top flight equipment and it is a question of when not if.

I do think bat / ball restrictions need to be in place at the lower divisions of play for obvious reasons.

 

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The BBCOR bats in baseball were pushed into HS and youth play by a few tragic cases. A few states had already passed laws requiring wood bats for HS and more were in the process. Out here, BBCOR bats were rushed in the same year as the NCAA to stave off a wood bat law. It did reduce the number of home runs and power hitters have come to appreciate them because hitting a HR has become a more meaningful achievement.

However, bat reg's are like gun laws - they only affect law abiders. There are more altered bats being used than people realize or want to admit.

Going to a softer ball makes all the hot bats, legal and illegal, obsolete because the best bat for them has a hard barrel.

 

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Totally agree with the ball. We just landed on Mars with no practice. You would think we could figure out how to decompress a ball and make it bounce corectly!!!

Because of the glut of mens softball in Florida we have a ton of shaving and rolling services here. I am sure some fastpitch dads are using them. I talked to a Mizuno dude in your neck of the woods about bats and balls a few months ago. Obviously he was not in favor of any changes. He did tell me that the manufacturers and Associations are looking at ways to eliminate the current methods of rolling and shaving.

The BBCOR bats in baseball were pushed into HS and youth play by a few tragic cases. A few states had already passed laws requiring wood bats for HS and more were in the process. Out here, BBCOR bats were rushed in the same year as the NCAA to stave off a wood bat law. It did reduce the number of home runs and power hitters have come to appreciate them because hitting a HR has become a more meaningful achievement.

However, bat reg's are like gun laws - they only affect law abiders. There are more altered bats being used than people realize or want to admit.

Going to a softer ball makes all the hot bats, legal and illegal, obsolete because the best bat for them has a hard barrel.

 

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I'm with Coop. Parents make the choice. My daughter wears the mask and heart guard (she calls it her padded bra) when pitching. She took a shot to the mask last year. Caved the front of the mask in. We sent the mask to the manufacturer and they said they had never seen that happen. Can't imagine what would have happened if she hadn't been wearing it.

Associations can deaden the ball, they can deaden the bats, but girls are getting bigger and stronger. Are we going to outlaw off-season strength training too?

 

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Echaab ... so should parents make the choice about kids being in car seats, wearing safety belts, or even driving cars when say they are 12-13? You and I would probably both do the right thing, but what about the poor kids whose parents are irresponsible or just plain ignorant? Don't we who are responsible and educated have the responsibility to help protect other kids too? How would you and I and our daughters feel if it was our daughter who hit the ball that killed/maimed/disfigured another child?

 

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Echaab ... so should parents make the choice about kids being in car seats, wearing safety belts, or even driving cars when say they are 12-13? You and I would probably both do the right thing, but what about the poor kids whose parents are irresponsible or just plain ignorant? Don't we who are responsible and educated have the responsibility to help protect other kids too? How would you and I and our daughters feel if it was our daughter who hit the ball that killed/maimed/disfigured another child?

Parents do make that decision every time there kid gets into the car. If a parents does not does not make a kid buckle up everytime they get into a car, then that kid will not have the learned behavor to buckle up. But, if the parent makes the kid buckle every time then it will become a learned behavior. They will do it out of habit.

 

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I'm with Coop. Parents make the choice. My daughter wears the mask and heart guard (she calls it her padded bra) when pitching. She took a shot to the mask last year. Caved the front of the mask in. We sent the mask to the manufacturer and they said they had never seen that happen. Can't imagine what would have happened if she hadn't been wearing it.

Associations can deaden the ball, they can deaden the bats, but girls are getting bigger and stronger. Are we going to outlaw off-season strength training too?

Please explain your reasoning here. So we can't deaden the ball or bat without outlawing strength training?? Or are you saying we shouldn't do any regulation to bats and balls??

We already do regulate bats. Why? Because they would perform a lot better then whats allowed now and whats allowed now is a lot more then what the game was designed on. Whats wrong with scaling back the bats if everyone is playing with the same equipment? You can still practice and become stronger to outperform others. If we got rid of composite bats, everyone used aluminum we would have a level playing field, it would be cheaper on families and it would be harder to cheat AND it would be safer. The game would be just as exciting. Only thing getting in the way is dollars for bat manufacturers and macho adults. It's stupid. ha

 

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I seem to remember the same whaling and gnashing of teeth about 10 years ago,. For those of you that wernt in the sport they dumbed the bats down then for ........the sake of safety.......... So now we are talking of doing it again. The bats were hotter back then folks. The issue is that hitting has caught up with pitching and the Pitchers and their parents dont care for it.

There was a time when Fast Pitch was a pitchers catchers game. That was when small ball was king. Why was that? Because the hitting at that time ****ed. It was all any one could do. And at that time select was not as popular as it is now. Heck for us old timers the rule of thumb was you let your dd play slow pitch so she could work on her defense because there wasnt any offense in fast pitch.

Fast forward to 10 years down the road and look whats happened, power or long ball has entered the sport. It is now more exciting and more popular than ever and growing at a almost rampant pace. You cannot have things both ways, If you want the offense once again to play back seat to the pitcher/catcher you will doom this sport back to the past when only a select few played and pitching was king ( or queen since we are discussing girls )

We want out kids to play like boys, then set on the side lines and lip whip them because they dont and then act like they should be put in catchers uniforms to play the game because there is a chance someone is going to get maimed.

I am by no means down playing safety. I would never want another child to suffer an injury. But no matter what you do that risk is always there. No matter how safe we try to be and how much the sport becomes regulated.

Batters had to get better to face pitching and they have accomplished that, now for the second time there are some that want to level the playing field for the defense. Guess what no one did that for the offense it had to struggle and work to get better. Pitchers have to do the same.

It has now become so much of a concern that they are changing the strike zone in college to allow chalk plus to pitchers on the outside corners to help tame the offense. If pitchers do not want a worthectimy then get better at hitting your spots, changing speed and levels of the pitching. You throw the ball down the middle of the plate its coming back at you twice as fast. Why do colleges now look at junk pitchers more than power pitchers. Because unlike the olden days its almost impossible to blow a ball by hitters.

Its growing pains, It will never be even, there will always be dominate pitchers that can move the ball with speed, and there will always be dominate hitters that can match. Let em play ball.


Tim

 

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Standing ovation to Boulders Dad. Very well said.

 

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I seem to remember the same whaling and gnashing of teeth about 10 years ago,. For those of you that wernt in the sport they dumbed the bats down then for ........the sake of safety.......... So now we are talking of doing it again. The bats were hotter back then folks. The issue is that hitting has caught up with pitching and the Pitchers and their parents dont care for it.

There was a time when Fast Pitch was a pitchers catchers game. That was when small ball was king. Why was that? Because the hitting at that time ****ed. It was all any one could do. And at that time select was not as popular as it is now. Heck for us old timers the rule of thumb was you let your dd play slow pitch so she could work on her defense because there wasnt any offense in fast pitch.

Fast forward to 10 years down the road and look whats happened, power or long ball has entered the sport. It is now more exciting and more popular than ever and growing at a almost rampant pace. You cannot have things both ways, If you want the offense once again to play back seat to the pitcher/catcher you will doom this sport back to the past when only a select few played and pitching was king ( or queen since we are discussing girls )

We want out kids to play like boys, then set on the side lines and lip whip them because they dont and then act like they should be put in catchers uniforms to play the game because there is a chance someone is going to get maimed.

I am by no means down playing safety. I would never want another child to suffer an injury. But no matter what you do that risk is always there. No matter how safe we try to be and how much the sport becomes regulated.

Batters had to get better to face pitching and they have accomplished that, now for the second time there are some that want to level the playing field for the defense. Guess what no one did that for the offense it had to struggle and work to get better. Pitchers have to do the same.

It has now become so much of a concern that they are changing the strike zone in college to allow chalk plus to pitchers on the outside corners to help tame the offense. If pitchers do not want a worthectimy then get better at hitting your spots, changing speed and levels of the pitching. You throw the ball down the middle of the plate its coming back at you twice as fast. Why do colleges now look at junk pitchers more than power pitchers. Because unlike the olden days its almost impossible to blow a ball by hitters.

Its growing pains, It will never be even, there will always be dominate pitchers that can move the ball with speed, and there will always be dominate hitters that can match. Let em play ball.


Tim

Should be a disclaimer that is the views of a paid hitting instructor. lol
Now lets have a pitching instructor give a rebuttal. ha

 

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I seem to remember the same whaling and gnashing of teeth about 10 years ago,. For those of you that wernt in the sport they dumbed the bats down then for ........the sake of safety.......... So now we are talking of doing it again. The bats were hotter back then folks. The issue is that hitting has caught up with pitching and the Pitchers and their parents dont care for it.

There was a time when Fast Pitch was a pitchers catchers game. That was when small ball was king. Why was that? Because the hitting at that time ****ed. It was all any one could do. And at that time select was not as popular as it is now. Heck for us old timers the rule of thumb was you let your dd play slow pitch so she could work on her defense because there wasnt any offense in fast pitch.

Fast forward to 10 years down the road and look whats happened, power or long ball has entered the sport. It is now more exciting and more popular than ever and growing at a almost rampant pace. You cannot have things both ways, If you want the offense once again to play back seat to the pitcher/catcher you will doom this sport back to the past when only a select few played and pitching was king ( or queen since we are discussing girls )

We want out kids to play like boys, then set on the side lines and lip whip them because they dont and then act like they should be put in catchers uniforms to play the game because there is a chance someone is going to get maimed.

I am by no means down playing safety. I would never want another child to suffer an injury. But no matter what you do that risk is always there. No matter how safe we try to be and how much the sport becomes regulated.

Batters had to get better to face pitching and they have accomplished that, now for the second time there are some that want to level the playing field for the defense. Guess what no one did that for the offense it had to struggle and work to get better. Pitchers have to do the same.

It has now become so much of a concern that they are changing the strike zone in college to allow chalk plus to pitchers on the outside corners to help tame the offense. If pitchers do not want a worthectimy then get better at hitting your spots, changing speed and levels of the pitching. You throw the ball down the middle of the plate its coming back at you twice as fast. Why do colleges now look at junk pitchers more than power pitchers. Because unlike the olden days its almost impossible to blow a ball by hitters.

Its growing pains, It will never be even, there will always be dominate pitchers that can move the ball with speed, and there will always be dominate hitters that can match. Let em play ball.


Tim

Good post! I was beginning to think this was a pitcher/slapper thread.