Hitting and Hitters Discussion Batted ball safety poll

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Hmmm.......Overall, the bats of today on average are MUCH better than the bats of 2004-2005. The sweet spots and forgiveness of today's bats are unparalleled, not to mention this little tidbit of information:

"Manufacturers of composite fast-pitch softball bats are doing their job well -- perhaps too well. An NCAA memo noted that "test results from the 2010 post-season were extremely disappointing. Of 24 bats tested, seven passed. Specifically, 17 bats failed by registering a batted ball speed between 98.0 and 104.7 mph." The speed limit is 98. Manufacturers push the limit with space-age engineering, creating an assortment of offensive weapons selling for $250 to $300. These brands represent the state of the art."

Now, take this information plus the fact that the pitchers are now 3 feet farther back, coupled with the fact that there are many more kids playing travel ball now which dilutes the pitching, fielding, and yes....hitting. Please don't tell me it's not easier to hit, and hit the ball harder more often than it was 7 to 10 years ago. The increase in offense is not mainly due to better hitting mechanics; it's due to the fact that it is much easier now for a hitter to hit the ball solid. The easier it is to make a solid hit, the increased chance of injury, especially the pitchers and corners.

Len


Thats interesting Lenski, hadnt seen those stats before and I agree its definitely easier for a hitter these days but I have seen some pretty good pitchers that at 43' can definitely shut a decent hitting team down. The added 3' undeniably leveled the playing field a bit.
 
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It just goes to show you that there are no tests available to license people to post on the internet..........

my DD's a pitcher and she wears a mask and realizes if u get hit its part of the game.. we too buy the high $ bats....If she were to get nailed I wouldnt start protesting the bat and ball companies because it wouldnt matter if it was a plain aluminum bat and a girl has good mechanics...she will still drill you and hurt you .....then what we gonna make a rule for big hitters have to use sticks?
 
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What is the "Strike" column for? Three strikes and your out?

Len
 
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First, ASA's motivation on equipment standards is more than just safety:

"The ASA reserves the right to withhold or withdraw approval of any equipment which, in the ASA's sole determination, significantly changes the character of the game, affects the safety of participants or spectators, or renders a player's performance more a product of the player's equipment rather than the player's individual skill."

You have a skewed view on the history of rule changes. Your characterization of them is inaccurate and you failed to mention some of the rule changes that benefitted hitters. Here is the real story:

2000 - ASA implemented its first bat standard and it was geared for the slowpitch game.

2001 - ASA recognized there were major flaws in the testing procedure and it didn't represent fastpitch well.

2002 - ASA announced the 2004 standard - a major overhaul of its test procedure to implement what it originally intended in 2000. There are still issues with the test procedure because it doesn't accurately represent bat-ball collisions in games.

2008 - ASA announced the Accelerated Break In (ABI) test protocol in an attempt to keep manufacturers from producing bats that exceed the 98 mph standard after they are broken in. Manufacturers are still designing around the test and bats are produced that can exceed the 98 mph limit if they're broken in (rolled) properly.

2008 - NCAA lowered strike zone from armpits to sternum.

2008-2010 ASA and NFHS move HS-age pitchers back 3 ft to add more offense to game.

2011 NCAA implemented its own approved bat list, game site bat testing and protocols for bats failing tests. These were enacted to crack down on bats, legal and illegal, that exceeded the 98 mph standard.

At this point, I'd like to see ASA tighten up the existing 98-mph standard (e.g. ban the grandfathered bats, improve test procedures) and find a way to eliminate the illegal bats (i.e. rolled and shaved).

https://sup.arbitersports.com/Groups...l_Bat_List.pdf

Sorry I havent responded back, between work, hitting clinics and tryouts, not enough time. Let us begin........

The new list shows that what I was talking about is in fact partially correct. There hasnt been a huge drop in bats allowed, no matter where the talk is coming from. If ASA is so concerned why are these bats that you folks swear are hotter than the ones banned 10 years ago still allowed. And the ones I metioned were banned? I will tell you why the bats you see on the list are not as hot as the ones 10 years ago that ASA deemed dangerous and were banned. Its pretty simple.

My history isnt skewed in the least, the 03 rt was the last of its line, the Anderson bat factory was allowed to produce the 04 because it was grandfathered in, they had to totally re tool their manufacturing process to make the 06 which by the way was a POS. Since they were mainly a metal bat the laws and rules that governed them according to Anderson was different from composites. The result was still a bat that was not as hot as the previous model.

During my one year at watching D1. I have seen tons of bats pulled, as a matter of fact I saw Youngstown state in the horizon league championship take an arm full from the dug out to the bus. The testing is working, does it work constantly, probably not, nothing does.

As far as strike zones I have seen some insane out side pitching that was in the other box on the chalk called strikes and no one pays any attention to that arm pit rule I can tell you that much. If the advantage as people see it is all with the hitter then why were pitchers like Kat and others like her so successful when others wernt?. again its pretty simple and I cant believe that no one sees it. Its called movement. Some pitchers are still in the past trying to blow balls by batters and getting rocked.

I have yet to hear from or read one article from the ASA stating how dangerous that softball has become and that it needs a sense of urgency to bring some parody to the game. That should tell you where the complaining is coming from.

You can have a 300 dollar bat and a 10 dollar swing and all you have is a high priced tomato stake.

Sammy there is no comparison between a wooden bat and a composite you and I both know that we also both know the game has evolved past 1975. If it goes back to that it will die. There is no happy medium, You will have pitchers that evolve and shut the big sticks down, you will have the big sticks that light up pitchers. It is a never ending game of adjustments and I will stand by my statement just as you did you cannot regulate a game to death or that is exactly what will happen......... you will kill it.

Now let the bashing resume lol


Tim
 
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Tim - my only concern is that when the advanced technology gets to the point to where it is deemed a safety concern more and more emphasis needs to be placed on understanding the outcome. And to me, the people that gain the most from bat and ball sponsorship $$$ are NOT the ones that sould be setting the rules.
 
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Saw many players with masks on at 18U nationals. I keep hearing the comment of college coaches and players wearing masks. I know there are many college coaches that are on the forum. It would be interesting on what they really think, because those that I have talked to( many) have yet stated anything bad about players wearing masks. Some of the cow pastures we play on any kid can take a bad hoop to the eye/head. If all the fields we played on were groomed, perhaps we wouldn't need a mask. Heck you cannot get a field dragged after most games. Len you can relate after the fields our dd's played on at Loudenville.
 
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What i really see that has happened is this. Hitters years ago had advanced technology but really diddnt know how to use it. The dawning of a new age has happened where hitters now have knowledge mixed with technology albeit not as good as it was a few years ago, Its still better than a wooden bat. Those 2 combined has over powered the pitching. To me thats where the issue is, now the defense ( and pitching ) is saying whoa wait a minute lets even things out a bit , were getting hammered here.

Look at what has happend in college, power ball has taken over now hitters are kids favorites and hero's as well as pitchers. To me Its a great thing, that means the sport reaches out to more people, its more exciting, its more dynamic. I really dont see it moving in the other direction any time soon. And I believe the ASA sees that also. Thats why you dont hear any ASA official screaming that the sport has become to dangerous.

It will work its self out folks, It always does,


Tim
 
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Tim - ASA will not do ANYTHING to upset the manufacturers. Since the sport was pulled from the Olympics the $$ from sponsors has decreased to a point where the Association was/is near bankruptcy. Follow the money and you will find where the power in the rules lie.

What i really see that has happened is this. Hitters years ago had advanced technology but really diddnt know how to use it. The dawning of a new age has happened where hitters now have knowledge mixed with technology albeit not as good as it was a few years ago, Its still better than a wooden bat. Those 2 combined has over powered the pitching. To me thats where the issue is, now the defense ( and pitching ) is saying whoa wait a minute lets even things out a bit , were getting hammered here.

Look at what has happend in college, power ball has taken over now hitters are kids favorites and hero's as well as pitchers. To me Its a great thing, that means the sport reaches out to more people, its more exciting, its more dynamic. I really dont see it moving in the other direction any time soon. And I believe the ASA sees that also. Thats why you dont hear any ASA official screaming that the sport has become to dangerous.

It will work its self out folks, It always does,


Tim
 
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No bashing is needed, Tim. I have always enjoyed bantering back and forth with you on OFC. There is a HUGE difference between "bashing" and presenting generally fact-based responses. If anything, this discussion has created better awareness in the OFC fastpitch community about where bat technology is headed, and the gear$ driving that technology.

I don't think people are naive enough to think that the ASA will independently govern bat standards, even under the guise of safety. There is just too much revenue at stake. But I DO believe that they will eventually be forced to, but only after tremendous pressure from outside forces. That's usually how stories like this end. Funny, but ironic how cash flow can cause temporary blindness and ignorance.

The above pretty much covers my opinion as to why ASA hasn't changed their approved bat list. I have two of the '04 Anderson Rocket Tech (souvenirs). My daughter's swing mechanics were nowhere close to your daughter's (ask Howard :D), but she scattered quite a few dingers with those two bats. She obviously worked harder at her pitching skills than hitting :p. The difference in her case was technology. Here was a case where a bat with a HUGE sleeve (among other tricks) created a tremendous sweet spot, and the trampoline effect helped "off center" struck balls become effective hits. This bat is the ultimate "bunt-a-homer" bat, and it is NO WONDER why Dads across America froth at the mouth to get their hands on one of these for their daughter! Hey, I was first in line! And when there continues to be an endless appetite, the supply chain will continue - until outside forces with an unclouded perspective intervene. The kids who have worked to create tremendous power of their own (your daughter included), and create offense with their OWN physical ability will still be the leaders in hitting. Bustos would (IS) still be an unstoppable force - even if she were using a wood bat.

Lets think about pitcher vs batter. Statistically, 10 top level pitchers have an advantage over 10 top level hitters. Statistically, there MUST be a greater number of great hitters to balance a fewer number of great pitchers. Let's reduce that logic down to a single game scenario. Using this logic, let's assume team A has ONE dominant top level pitcher. Team B has ONE dominant top level hitter. Obviously, if no one else on team B can hit, the team A pitcher will dominate all but that single hitter. Stupid logic? Yes, but you see this at the high school level all the time. One single pitcher can carry a team all the way to a State championship. Dominant pitching can be overcome, but it take several competent hitters facing that pitcher to accomplish this.

This perceived "imbalance" between pitcher/batter has been in the game from day one, and nothing has changed today. Umpires "Giving chalk" to pitchers is simply a case of incompetent umpires defacing the game. I know it's wrong; you know it's wrong. Anytime umpires create their own rules, or misinterpret existing rules dirties the pureness of the game. But that has nothing to do with pure "pitcher vs batter". The single most effective way to balance this "battle" is EXACTLY what you are doing - teaching kids how to hit!

It's been said many times before - if EVERY kid worked on their hitting skills as hard as the hardest working pitchers, teams could not ride a single dominant pitcher to a Sunday championship game! Anyone who doesn't see that change gradually taking place has their head in the sand. Hitters ARE getting better - TREMENDOUSLY better in the last 15 years - which is fantastic for the sport of fastpitch. There are dedicated people who jumped on the bandwagon to skill improvement, and started teaching superior skills. The kids who learn these skills are the ones who advance to the college ranks.

Now, here's the doggie-downer. I'm only promoting INDIVIDUAL skills. Skills that use individual physical abilities, like improving swing mechanics - swing speed, hand path, vision techniques, etc. It's been proven that by improving these attributes ALONE hitters can dominate pitching. Ignoring that fact is denying that great hitters like Ruth, Gehrig, Aaron, Mantle, Cobb - etc. never existed. And claiming "But that's baseball, not softball" is nothing but an excuse. I have yet to see proven statistics that (ALL THINGS EQUAL) a fastpitch pitcher has an advantage over hitters that a baseball pitcher doesn't have. That claim also diminishes the significance of the work ethic of great softball hitters. It says that "we have to give the girl batters a technological advantage, because they can't do it on their own". I say that is BS, and is the result of laziness, and enterprising bat manufacturers are taking advantage of that laziness.

I don't know the answer as to why the NCAA stepped in with regards to baseball bats. Time will tell if it was a good thing or not. Recent statistics show just how much an effect the bat was having over and above physical ability. From what I read, high schools are adopting these same standards. Anyone who doesn't believe that the NCAA isn't watching these statistics with guarded optimism is misguided. I predict it's just a matter of time until similar BBCOR standards are applied to NCAA fastpitch, and eventually trickle down to ASA and other governing bodies.

Yes, the game of women's fastpitch has advanced. It has advanced tremendously by girls becoming more aware of physical conditioning and training, and how those can make you a better athlete. Faster, stronger athletes, in their own right, is what is making the game great. Technology that has advanced training techniques (RVP, digital slo-mo, etc.) has greatly helped those physical gains. Giving credit to bat technology for those gains is a slap in the face to all the girls who accomplish their goals using their own physical ability.

Here is a link to some interesting reading about the technology behind the bats from some differing perspectives.
http://webusers.npl.illinois.edu/~a-nathan/pob/bats.html
 
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https://sup.arbitersports.com/Groups...l_Bat_List.pdf

Sorry I havent responded back, between work, hitting clinics and tryouts, not enough time. Let us begin........

I'm glad you found the time to respond. I was wondering why you had not.

The new list shows that what I was talking about is in fact partially correct. There hasnt been a huge drop in bats allowed, no matter where the talk is coming from. If ASA is so concerned why are these bats that you folks swear are hotter than the ones banned 10 years ago still allowed. And the ones I metioned were banned?

That is an NCAA list and it is TOTALLY unrelated to ASA. You do know that, don't you? The NCAA started their own list (i.e. approved bats) from scratch with only the bat models submitted by manufacturers. The manufacturers chose to not submit many/all of the older bat models, including the ones grandfathered by ASA and still legal for ASA.

I will tell you why the bats you see on the list are not as hot as the ones 10 years ago that ASA deemed dangerous and were banned. Its pretty simple.

My history isnt skewed in the least,

Your history of rule changes was/is skewed because it ignores ones that greatly benefited hitters (i.e. NCAA lowering strike zone and 16/18u going to 43'). Characterizing it as being strictly about safety is inaccurate because safety is only 1 of 3 reasons why ASA imposes equipment standards. ASA created their first bat performance standard for 2000 because it was obvious bat technology was changing the character of the game (initial focus was slow pitch) and decreasing the need for player ability/skill. Again, the changes 10 years ago were a revamp of the initial standards to fix shortcomings and to make them applicable to fast pitch.

the 03 rt was the last of its line, the Anderson bat factory was allowed to produce the 04 because it was grandfathered in, they had to totally re tool their manufacturing process to make the 06 which by the way was a POS. Since they were mainly a metal bat the laws and rules that governed them according to Anderson was different from composites. The result was still a bat that was not as hot as the previous model.

Duh, of course bat standards had an immediate effect on new bats' performance - it would have been a complete waste of time and effort if they didn't. However, there is an ongoing cat/mouse game by the bat manufacturers with the standards that results in legal bats exceeding the 98-mph limit and illegally altered bats exceeding it by a lot (114-116 mph). The NCAA has taken action beyond ASA's certification to get the 98-mph limit truly in effect for its games.

BTW, A
SA and NCAA bat rules do not distinguish between metal and composite bats. The ABI test protocol was created mainly due to composite bats, but it applies to metal bats too.


During my one year at watching D1. I have seen tons of bats pulled, as a matter of fact I saw Youngstown state in the horizon league championship take an arm full from the dug out to the bus. The testing is working, does it work constantly, probably not, nothing does.

The NCAA's on-site Barrel Compression Testing (BCT) isn't perfect and that is why bats are taken for further testing to see if they really exceed the 98-mph limit. The NCAA is learning a lot in the process and I expect they'll make adjustments, if needed.

Youngstown State was obviously concerned those other bats would be confiscated for failing the BCT, even if they were legal bats and would probably be returned, eventually.


As far as strike zones I have seen some insane out side pitching that was in the other box on the chalk called strikes and no one pays any attention to that arm pit rule I can tell you that much.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not one of those parents that mistakenly look at where the catcher catches it instead of seeing where the ball was when it passed the plate. Every umpire has their own zone, so both batters and pitchers have to figure it out and adjust. Is there any documented evidence of umpires being directed to expand their zone and/or recorded observations demonstrating it is a widespread phenomenom? If not, you're beef is with individual umpires.

If the advantage as people see it is all with the hitter then why were pitchers like Kat and others like her so successful when others wernt?. again its pretty simple and I cant believe that no one sees it. Its called movement. Some pitchers are still in the past trying to blow balls by batters and getting rocked.

I don't recall anyone saying the advantage was all with the hitter, but at least one of your posts was pretty close to it! LOL

I agree it is a competitive match-up where the best pitchers can keep the best hitters under control most of the time. Even the best pitchers, MLB included, make mistakes and a good hitter makes them pay for it. As Coach Dennis posted, the danger increases substantially when you have pitching that is not up to the level of the hitters. Coaches and TDs have to share some of the blame when that happens.

Effective pitchers definitely need more than speed from 43' - location, movement and change of speed are what make it pitching instead of just throwing. Kat can/could throw high 60's, but she knows she is more effective throwing mid-60's because she has more control and gets more movement. Same is true for MLB pitchers.

I have yet to hear from or read one article from the ASA stating how dangerous that softball has become and that it needs a sense of urgency to bring some parody to the game. That should tell you where the complaining is coming from.

I doubt ASA believes it or they would have acted on it by now - it's been 4 years since they have done anything more than ban some specific bats. Even if they did believe it, they wouldn't publicize it until they changed their standards.

You can have a 300 dollar bat and a 10 dollar swing and all you have is a high priced tomato stake.

I agree.
No bashing intended - just discussion.
 
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... I don't know the answer as to why the NCAA stepped in with regards to baseball bats. Time will tell if it was a good thing or not. Recent statistics show just how much an effect the bat was having over and above physical ability. From what I read, high schools are adopting these same standards.

BBCOR bats were long overdue for college baseball - CWS games routinely had football-like scores 10+ years ago due to bat technology. NCAA teams were orginally allowed to use metal bats for economic reasons - there was no reason why NCAA teams needed a bat that greatly outperformed wood. All levels of professional baseball, including the comparable minor leagues, use wood bats. I'd say the results are very positive for the college baseball games. The power hitters still get their HRs and they appreciate them more because it is a meaningful achievement.

HS and most youth leagues went to BBCOR this year, 2012, and it was all driven by safety. A few states had already outlawed non-wood bats and more were looking into it. BBCOR was rushed into effect in California HS ball a year earlier to stave off legislation outlawing non-wood bats due to a highly publicized case where a NorCal HS baseball pitcher was put into a coma for an extended period (weeks/months). I think the safety aspect for HS was overblown, but not for the younger youth leagues that are playing on smaller 60' fields.

The older and better HS-age travel ball players were already used to swinging wood bats, so the adjustment was really just for the younger and/or less developed players. The first year or two must be really rough on many of the HS freshman hitters that historically were already challenged by the heavier bats (max -3 drop) and, for many, full-size 90' fields.

Players gain a lot by swinging wood-like bats in practices and scrimmages because they provide immediate feedback on how well the ball was struck. Hitters don't get a false sense of accomplishment by getting basehits from mis-hits (e.g. jammed off handle/taper or out off end). Similar to TC balls, it pushes them to make solid contact. Unlike TC balls, they can do it under game conditions.

I predict it's just a matter of time until similar BBCOR standards are applied to NCAA fastpitch, and eventually trickle down to ASA and other governing bodies.

I think the action the NCAA's has taken on bats will make it unnecessary. Hopefully, that will trickle down to ASA and the other governing bodies. JMO, we'll see...
 
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That is an NCAA list and it is TOTALLY unrelated to ASA. You do know that, don't you? The NCAA started their own list (i.e. approved bats) from scratch with only the bat models submitted by manufacturers. The manufacturers chose to not submit many/all of the older bat models, including the ones grandfathered by ASA and still legal for ASA.

Yes I did know that but the two governing bodies do work along the same lines, even though some of the bats are allowed by the ASA not the NCAA. If not It would not trickle as you say down the line from NCAA to ASA

Duh, of course bat standards had an immediate effect on new bats' performance - it would have been a complete waste of time and effort if they didn't. However, there is an ongoing cat/mouse game by the bat manufacturers with the standards that results in legal bats exceeding the 98-mph limit and illegally altered bats exceeding it by a lot (114-116 mph). The NCAA has taken action beyond ASA's certification to get the 98-mph limit truly in effect for its games.

BTW, A
SA and NCAA bat rules do not distinguish between metal and composite bats. The ABI test protocol was created mainly due to composite bats, but it applies to metal bats too.

I understand this also. according to Anderson their metal was grandfathered in when alot of composites like the blue synergy was not. Their take on it and what I was told from Anderson was that Metal got a break where composite did not. Hence a different standard.

Your history of rule changes was/is skewed because it ignores ones that greatly benefited hitters (i.e. NCAA lowering strike zone and 16/18u going to 43'). Characterizing it as being strictly about safety is inaccurate because safety is only 1 of 3 reasons why ASA imposes equipment standards. ASA created their first bat performance standard for 2000 because it was obvious bat technology was changing the character of the game (initial focus was slow pitch) and decreasing the need for player ability/skill. Again, the changes 10 years ago were a revamp of the initial standards to fix shortcomings and to make them applicable to fast pitch.

This was said in my original post the bats have been reduced once............. revamp or not a change is a change........People act like the change had never occurred.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not one of those parents that mistakenly look at where the catcher catches it instead of seeing where the ball was when it passed the plate. Every umpire has their own zone, so both batters and pitchers have to figure it out and adjust. Is there any documented evidence of umpires being directed to expand their zone and/or recorded observations demonstrating it is a widespread phenomenom? If not, you're beef is with individual umpires.

I diddnt see it I heard the blue tell the hitter he was giving chalk plus..... hard to argure with with it after seeing it, he definatly did.

I agree it is a competitive match-up where the best pitchers can keep the best hitters under control most of the time. Even the best pitchers, MLB included, make mistakes and a good hitter makes them pay for it. As Coach Dennis posted, the danger increases substantially when you have pitching that is not up to the level of the hitters. Coaches and TDs have to share some of the blame when that happens.

Then the argument is moot. There will always be danger and you are saying exactly what I did, about dominate pitchers and hitters. What do we do about the rest? It is a never ending circle of discussion.

Effective pitchers definitely need more than speed from 43' - location, movement and change of speed are what make it pitching instead of just throwing. Kat can/could throw high 60's, but she knows she is more effective throwing mid-60's because she has more control and gets more movement. Same is true for MLB pitchers.

I agree and that has been my statement thru this discussion.


Tim






 
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I would like to throw another monkey into the works to consider...

I believe that over the last decade, coaching in this region has improved tremendously. Not only on-field coaching in the traditional sense but specialized position coaching including those focused strictly on hitting along with those focused on conditioning. In most areas there is now some sort of 12 month indoor facility that concentrates this coaching talent and makes it possible to earn few bucks helping these athletes all year long. The better kids are working harder, in better facilities with much better coaching. It results show-up in much better pitching and much-much better hitting.

Most of these options simply did not exist in 2000 for many of our players.
 
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That is an NCAA list and it is TOTALLY unrelated to ASA. You do know that, don't you? The NCAA started their own list (i.e. approved bats) from scratch with only the bat models submitted by manufacturers. The manufacturers chose to not submit many/all of the older bat models, including the ones grandfathered by ASA and still legal for ASA.

Yes I did know that but the two governing bodies do work along the same lines, even though some of the bats are allowed by the ASA not the NCAA. If not It would not trickle as you say down the line from NCAA to ASA

They have the same standard and use the same test lab, but there is no coordination between the two orgs in terms of monitoring and/or banning bats that slipped through the certification process. The lack of action by ASA pushed the NCAA to act on its own to ensure its games were a contest of skill rather than equipment. I posted HOPEFULLY this would trickle down to ASA, but I'm not holding my breath. BTW, manufacturers actively add and remove bats from the NCAA list. Here is a list of changes this year - NCAA

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BTW, ASA and NCAA bat rules do not distinguish between metal and composite bats. The ABI test protocol was created mainly due to composite bats, but it applies to metal bats too.

I understand this also. according to Anderson their metal was grandfathered in when alot of composites like the blue synergy was not. Their take on it and what I was told from Anderson was that Metal got a break where composite did not. Hence a different standard.

Hard to respond because I'm not sure which year/model Synergy you're referencing. Some composite bats were grandfathered in '03 along with the RT and 9 of them were banned after '07 - probably because ASA learned around then that composites got hotter after they were broken in. The older RTs should have been banned at the same time because they did the same thing, but ASA either didn't know it or let it go since they were no longer being produced.

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Is there any documented evidence of umpires being directed to expand their zone and/or recorded observations demonstrating it is a widespread phenomenom? If not, you're beef is with individual umpires.

I diddnt see it I heard the blue tell the hitter he was giving chalk plus..... hard to argure with with it after seeing it, he definatly did.

Sounds like specific umpire(s) rather than across the board like you originally made it sound. He should be reported so he can be corrected.

Just to be clear, I'm not a proponent of lowering the 98-mph limit at this time because it can't really be determined whether it is too high or not when there are still so many bats that exceed it. As I've posted before, I'd rather see ASA do more to rid the game of the bats, legal and illegal, that exceed the 98-mph limit.

Analogy: A stretch of road has a 40-mph limit and there have been a number of serious accidents on it. The knee-jerk reaction is to lower the speed limit. However, further research shows most of those accidents were due to drivers exceeding the speed limit. Is the proper response to lower the speed limit, which mainly affects the law abiding drivers, or go after the speeders?

BTW, the NCAA is polling their coaches this Fall to see whether they want to raise their bat performance standards. I ran across it in this NCAA memo that also describes what ASA is doing - NCAA
 
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Thought of this post after talking to a few blues at stingray last weekend. There,s a storm a coming as the little old man would say. That storm is going to be the $hit storm in college from new rulings according to these blues. The river that most pitchers umpires love to use is drying up. The space between the black on the plate and the batters box. Apparently I wasn't the only one complaining about chalk plus last spring. Apparently the strike zone is going to be a whole lot tighter this next season.

It will be interesting to see if this actually comes to pass or it was passed to appease disgruntled voices. I love a good pitching hitting duel. Nothing in my opinion creates a better hitter or their QAB than facing a pitcher with movement . Believe it or not I do not want that pendulum to swing so far the other way it squeezes pitchers like a fresh picked orange.

Has any one else heard this, or if their are any blues out there that do college games can you give any feed back on these rumors. Thanks

Tim
 
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Thought of this post after talking to a few blues at stingray last weekend. There,s a storm a coming as the little old man would say. That storm is going to be the $hit storm in college from new rulings according to these blues. The river that most pitchers umpires love to use is drying up. The space between the black on the plate and the batters box. Apparently I wasn't the only one complaining about chalk plus last spring. Apparently the strike zone is going to be a whole lot tighter this next season.

It will be interesting to see if this actually comes to pass or it was passed to appease disgruntled voices. I love a good pitching hitting duel. Nothing in my opinion creates a better hitter or their QAB than facing a pitcher with movement . Believe it or not I do not want that pendulum to swing so far the other way it squeezes pitchers like a fresh picked orange.

Has any one else heard this, or if their are any blues out there that do college games can you give any feed back on these rumors. Thanks

Tim

Rumors....
 
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See what the SS and 2B are wearing next year at 16u when colleges are looking.......\

Len

they were all over that park... at 14u... I didn't watch that game personally, but, we had a parent that did...
 
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they were all over that park... at 14u... I didn't watch that game personally, but, we had a parent that did...

Oh I agree, at 14u I'm sure there are masks-a-plenty. However, what I witnessed at 16/18u last year, I do not remember a single 2B/SS wearing a mask at college exposure tournaments. As a matter of fact, I can't remember any infielder wearing masks, including pitchers, except for one of our own pitchers. A few might have but I just don't honestly recall any. These were exposure tournaments in Indiana, Michigan, and Tennessee. Also, we played 18u in Loudonville and I don't remember infield masks being worn by any player on any team we played. If masks were being worn, it was by a very small percentage of kids.

Len
 
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