Question for Bretman re: batted balls hitting runners

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Bretman ... so I think I learned something new this weekend. We had a runner on 1B and there was a sharply hit ball to the right side that hit her leg and went on into RF. After some discussion, both runners were called safe. I knew that if a ball had already passed an infielder that it negated the runner interference/obstruction, but in this case my understanding was that the umpire determined that no one could have made a play on the runners (i.e., 2B was not going to get to it). Could you more fully explain the rule, and is it pretty much the same at all levels of fastpitch and baseball?

 

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There are some minor variations on how this is called between baseball and softball, between slow pitch and fastpitch, and you might even find some differences depending on which sanctioning body's rules you're using.

Generally, for softball (ASA and high school)...

A runner is out when hit by a batted ball before it has passed a fielder (excluding the pitcher).

A runner is not out when hit by a batted ball that has passed a fielder (excluding the pitcher), unless there is another fielder behind the runner who had an opportunity to make a play.

I'm not really sure about the explanation you got. The bottom line is if the ball had passed a fielder or not. Whether or not anyone had a play doesn't matter until after the ball has already passed one of the fielders.

Where was F3 playing when the ball was hit? In front of or behind first base?

 

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A little deviation.....
happened twice this past weekend:

R1 on first base, 2 outs and 2 strikes on Batter. The next pitch, the batter swings, misses the ball, but the ball hits the batter. In both instances, the umpires made the right call. But the coaches were confused.

So coaches, what is the proper ruling???

 

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In front of 1B but that's where 1B plays 99% of the time in this game I think ... though I don't think she had any play on the ball herself from where she was ...

 

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A little deviation.....
happened twice this past weekend:

R1 on first base, 2 outs and 2 strikes on Batter. The next pitch, the batter swings, misses the ball, but the ball hits the batter. In both instances, the umpires made the right call. But the coaches were confused.

So coaches, what is the proper ruling???

Strike three...batters out, inning over.

 

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In front of 1B but that's where 1B plays 99% of the time in this game I think ... though I don't think she had any play on the ball herself from where she was ...

That's where I figured F3 would be, but just wanted to check.

So, what you have here...

- Batted ball has passed a fielder (F3).

- No other fielder behind the runner had a chance to make a play.

Ruling: Runner not out, live ball, play on...get what you get!

Probably the biggest argument and coach blow-up I've had all year involved almost this exact same play. Runner on first, ball hit to the right side. Runner takes off, F3 lunges for the ball, it goes past her, then hits the runner. No other fielder behind the runner had a play.

When I didn't call the runner out, the defensive coach about blew a gasket. Then the fans started in on me. It got pretty brutal, including having to dodge angry fans all the way to my car after the game.

But that was the right call. The misconception is that anytime a runner gets hit with a batted ball that the runner is out...no matter what. That's not always the case. It might help to think of it this way...

Runners get called out for interference when they do something that actually prevents the defense from recording an out. If a runner prevents an out, we penalize them with an out. But we don't hand out "freebies" to the defense when whatever the runner did does not prevent an out!

In the case of the runner getting hit before the ball passes a fielder, the rules give the benefit of the doubt to the defense. Did the runner really prevent an out by getting hit? Well, we don't know for sure because she stopped or deflected the ball before the defense had a chance to make a play. But since the defense's opportunity to play the ball was impeded, we tilt the scale in their favor and call the runner out.

When the ball has already passed a fielder...the defense had their chance! Once the ball is past the fielder, the defense's opportunity to make a play has passed...unless there happens to be another fielder behind the runner with another chance to make a play (which means actually record an out, not just field or reach the ball). So, if it has passed the fielder and no one else has a play, the runner is not out, because she didn't impede the defense's opportunity to get an out.

 

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Strike three....dropped 3rd strike, catcher needs to tag or throw to first. Inning over.

 

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In front of 1B but that's where 1B plays 99% of the time in this game I think ... though I don't think she had any play on the ball herself from where she was ...

Bretman was confirming ball passed F3 before hitting the runner because that makes determining whether F4 had the opportunity to make a play (i.e. get an out) material to properly calling interference. If F3 and F4 were both playing behind the base line, it would be interference regardless of whether anyone had a play.

Sounds like they got it right for the right reasons.

 

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Strike three....dropped 3rd strike, catcher needs to tag or throw to first. Inning over.

Nope...just plain old strike three and the batter is out.

Whenever a pitched ball touches a batter, the ball is immediately dead. When the ball is dead, you can't have an uncaught strike, a tag or a throw to first. If the batter swings and missed, but gets hit by the pitch, it's just a dead ball and a strike.

 

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Right. In fastpitch, it's normal for a first baseman to be playing in front of the base, but it's not a given. And the entire ruling depends on that little detail. You can't really give a good answer until you know for sure if the ball had passed a fielder. That's why I checked!

 

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Thanks, Bretman ... one follow-up question ... could the umpire have called interference if he believed the right fielder could have thrown out the batter at 1B?

 

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Thanks, Bretman ... one follow-up question ... could the umpire have called interference if he believed the right fielder could have thrown out the batter at 1B?

Yes. Any fielder on the field can qualify as "the fielder behind the runner with an opportunity to make a play". But you would probably need the outfielder to be playing very shallow, combined with a pretty slow batter-runner. If the umpire judges that the outfielder could have reasonably recorded an out, then this could still be interference.

Again, keep in mnd that to "make a play" means to actually have some legitimate, reasonable chance of recording an out, not just fielding or reaching the ball.

 

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Sounds like our high school game! They were ticked at me for telling them the rules and you were right! It was brutal at first base. Just to let you know we gave that coach the actual rule at the next game.

 

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Sounds like our high school game! They were ticked at me for telling them the rules and you were right! It was brutal at first base. Just to let you know we gave that coach the actual rule at the next game.

That was the one...

 

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Bretman we love you! In a total professional way of course

 

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If a runner takes off with the pitch and gets hit by a line drive on her way to second, is she out as long as the first and second basemen are playing behind (closer to the outfield grass) the path that the runner is taking to second base even though neither of them had even a remote chance of making a play? It would seem to me that judgment on the umpire's part should come into play as to whether the runner actually interfered with any potential defensive actions but perhaps that is not the case.

 

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A runner is out when hit by a batted ball before it has passed a fielder (excluding the pitcher). In the case of the runner getting hit before the ball passes a fielder, the rules give the benefit of the doubt to the defense. Did the runner really prevent an out by getting hit? Well, we don't know for sure because she stopped or deflected the ball before the defense had a chance to make a play. But since the defense's opportunity to play the ball was impeded, we tilt the scale in their favor and call the runner out.



My response.

 

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If a runner takes off with the pitch and gets hit by a line drive on her way to second, is she out as long as the first and second basemen are playing behind (closer to the outfield grass) the path that the runner is taking to second base even though neither of them had even a remote chance of making a play?

Yes, that's the rule.

Why is it that way? It's just the way the rule evolved and how it's interpreted.

I can see some logic to calling it this way. Suppose that the ball/runner is about halfway between first and second base and halfway between the two fielders. In some cases it might be obvious that neither would have a play. In other cases it would be obvious that they would.

But what about a case where it's close and could go either way? Then you would have to interject an arbitrary judgment by the umpire to say if this would have been a base hit or not. Think of the arguments that could cause!

I think that from a practical standpoint it's much easier to give the benefit of the doubt to the defense. After all, they aren't the ones who screwed up. If there is any remote shred of possibility that they may have had a play (which might be hard to judge, since the runner touched the ball before it reached them and we'll never really know for sure!) they should be awarded the out.

 

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OK. Thanks for the explanation. The primary reason I asked was because I was watching a Hillsdale game a few years ago and this happened. A lefty smoked a ball between first and second. The runner was almost halfway between first and second and the fielders were each about 10 feet from their bases. The ball nailed the runner in the rear end. Had it kept going, it would have gone to fence and runners probably on 2nd and 3rd. It just seemed like a cheap out because there was absolutely no way a fielder could have made a play but I now better understand the rule even though in some cases it doesn't seem very fair. Thanks again.

 

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How about this one? Runner on first, hard shot to 2nd base side of F3. F3 dives to her right for the ball. Ball deflects off her glove and hits runner in leg. Possibly preventing F4 from making a play. But if F3 had not deflected the ball there is no way it would have hit runner because it would have been well behind her. Happened to us and runner was called out. We had big lead and coach never even argued it. Eventually won game so it didn't matter but I thought runner should have been safe.