Calling Pitches - 14u, 16u, 18u

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I think if you take the time to teach and build confidence the catcher should be able to call the game at 12u. We are working with our new catchers this year in 12u to call the game. Hoping by tourney number two they can start.

 

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coachjwb - I didn't intend to imply that the college coaches calling pitches have an ego. What I meant by the "power" comment was that they stand the most to lose when the team loses. Basically, their jobs are on the line. They were hired to run the program, and it's their system. They have every right to do whatever they feel will give the team the best chance at winning. So I think we agree about that. Some coaches are very good at calling a game, and some are pretty bad. The college coaches that figure that out will be more successful in the long run.

 

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Catcher and pitcher should be calling their game. Let it go coaches, it is their game. Teach them to do it and you will be amazed, these girls are smarter than we give them credit for.

Klump, not to be confrontational but I don't follow your logic.

What is the difference between the coach giving the signs to the pitcher/catcher vs the coach giving signs to the batter/base-runner. In both cases the coach is managing the team the best way he/she sees fit to win the game.

Eagleone's perspective is valid. I stopped asking college coaches after I got the same response from OSU and Miami. I need to ask more of them.

At any point, if I believe that my catchers (and pitchers) are being negatively impacted from a recruiting perspective because they don't call their own games - we will change immediately. Winning will never be more important than getting a player to play in college.

But if its not, I believe we stand a better chance to win by having the dugout call the pitches (for one reason because we have access to more information).

Just my perspective.

 

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Klump, not to be confrontational but I don't follow your logic.

What is the difference between the coach giving the signs to the pitcher/catcher vs the coach giving signs to the batter/base-runner. In both cases the coach is managing the team the best way he/she sees fit to win the game.

Eagleone's perspective is valid. I stopped asking college coaches after I got the same response from OSU and Miami. I need to ask more of them.

At any point, if I believe that my catchers (and pitchers) are being negatively impacted from a recruiting perspective because they don't call their own games - we will change immediately. Winning will never be more important than getting a player to play in college.

But if its not, I believe we stand a better chance to win by having the dugout call the pitches (for one reason because we have access to more information).

Just my perspective.

When I start with them when they are young, I don't teach them according to how they will be recruited. When they are young, I teach them every aspect of the game that I can so they can be the best player they can be.

A catcher who calls her own game is forced to read batters, swings, feet, stances, etc. Why not allow them to learn that part of the position? I was a catcher in travel ball and college and I got to call my own games. It was an invaluable learning experience that made me a much better player than I was before I called my games. It made me understand what I should be looking for in my opponents, not just be told by the coaches, but see for myself and understand. It also helped me tremendously as a batter. It gave me a great idea of what was going to be thrown to me and why.

As far as the base running, I am always telling my girls to be aggressive and if you think you can make it, go. They know they don't need my permission to steal. The more they can think on their feet and independently play the game, the better. Base coaches are more for guidance, to watch the ball for the runners so they don't have to, tell them if it is overthrown, and whether to slide or not. Calling pitches isn't guidance, it is doing the job for them. I can call a better game than any of my catchers but I am not in the game right now they are, why not let them learn?

 

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When I start with them when they are young, I don't teach them according to how they will be recruited. When they are young, I teach them every aspect of the game that I can so they can be the best player they can be.

A catcher who calls her own game is forced to read batters, swings, feet, stances, etc. Why not allow them to learn that part of the position? I was a catcher in travel ball and college and I got to call my own games. It was an invaluable learning experience that made me a much better player than I was before I called my games. It made me understand what I should be looking for in my opponents, not just be told by the coaches, but see for myself and understand. It also helped me tremendously as a batter. It gave me a great idea of what was going to be thrown to me and why.

As far as the base running, I am always telling my girls to be aggressive and if you think you can make it, go. They know they don't need my permission to steal. The more they can think on their feet and independently play the game, the better. Base coaches are more for guidance, to watch the ball for the runners so they don't have to, tell them if it is overthrown, and whether to slide or not. Calling pitches isn't guidance, it is doing the job for them. I can call a better game than any of my catchers but I am not in the game right now they are, why not let them learn?

Klump,

We think along the exact same lines. I give many (not all) of my girls a green light on the bases. We talk about every situation and when a chance should be taken on the bases, and when it should not. We are working on the same thing with some of our batters as well with bunt situations, etc. I caught in college as well, and I always called the pitches. If you didn't trust me to pay attention and know the batters, feet positioning, situational items, etc., then you shouldn't have me behind the plate. I also knew the pitchers and their tendencies, and their best pitches in certain situations. Sometimes I called a pitch to prove a lesson to the pitcher, sometimes the batter. However, when I was a senior, my coach let me call the pitches to the freshman catcher that was getting some action behind the dish. I don't believe he ever called his own game in college. It depends on your catchers. We try to talk to the catchers and sometimes the pitchers between innings but expect all our players to recognize batters and their hitting tendencies.

 

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Here is an article from Brent Mayne, former MLB catcher.

http://brentmayne.com/todays-tip-11-reasons-to-let-the-catcher-call-pitches/

Len

 

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Great article, Lenski. A copy of that article should be given to EVERY travel team AND college coach... Better yet - paste it up it in every fastpitch tournament dugout!

 

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Lenski:

A good article indeed.

 

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Here is an article from Brent Mayne, former MLB catcher.

http://brentmayne.com/todays-tip-11-reasons-to-let-the-catcher-call-pitches/

Len

This pretty much sums it up. Catcher should call the game and the pitcher should have the right to shake it off.
I laugh at coaches , especially in travel ball, who think they know the game better than a pitcher/ catcher combo who have 2-4 years experience.
14`s should be calling their own game. No question 16/18s should.
I see coaches who have never thrown a pitch in fastpitch thinking they know more than a 16/18 year old who has caught/pitched hundreds of games and face thousands of batters.
ARE you serious?

 

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Loved the site Len, thanks!! That went right into my favorites.

 

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Very interesting site Len, thanks for sharing.

Have to say this thread may have changed my thinking on the subject. Key point is like anything else, you do have to teach this, not just throw them out there and hope for the best.

 

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Very interesting site Len, thanks for sharing.

Have to say this thread may have changed my thinking on the subject. Key point is like anything else, you do have to teach this, not just throw them out there and hope for the best.

Me too and very well put. I think the results of the poll pretty much play that out too. The reins get turned over to the catcher/pitcher.

What a great resource the OFC community is....

 

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My dd and her catcher play on the same high school team. They are calling pitches at the high school level but the coach calls them for travel.

 

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I haven't read through the entire thread since I just found it, so sorry for any repeat thoughts.

My philosophy is to let the catcher call the game and to give the pitcher the final say. The catchers need to learn how to call games and as they get older, should be in a better position to have a feel for the game and the batters than anyone in the dugout. I like to give the pitcher the final say because she is the one throwing the pitch and I want her to ultimately be responsible.

But, if we have a freshman pitcher who is mostly clueless on setting up batters shaking off a veteran catcher very often, that's not going to work. A lot of it has to do with the experience level of the pitcher and catcher.

Having said all of that, we play the same team twice on Saturday and twice on Sunday each weekend. Because of that, we have a pretty good chart in the dugout of what each hitter has done in this and previous seasons. So the system we use is to have the catcher look over to our pitching coach each pitch. That coach will send in a signal (or not send in one) and the catcher can go with that or can override it if she wishes. It's basically a strong suggestion. If we absolutely want a certain pitch, we have a signal for that, too.

And then after all of that our freshmen pitchers are usually missing their spot anyway.

 

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Tracking the record of a batters weakness from the bench can be a good tool, a signal to the catcher on the best pitch does work. Stats can be a help such as inside to outside pitch, if a batter has been striking out say on outside low curves after fastball combo. Another batter may love curves and slaps for hits, this could be a good time for a signal to a catcher to change the calls. Now, I to think catchers should be able to work with a pitcher but their memory of every batter over a season or even a single game may not be the best way to go.
If the coach does not care for the history of a batter and there goes the tracking of pitches out the window on batters and only used to see what pitch is getting strikes.
I know most coaches will still say, hey this batter can jack a ball if she extends her arms keep the pitch inside for the pay off pitch. The pitcher may say my fast ball is working so here goes on the outside of the plate, she shakes off the catcher and there goes the history and advantage over a fence.
At some point the coaches better know who the batter is and this may be what a pitcher/catcher needs to be that much better. Teamwork... even some of the best catchers in history took signals off and on from the bench...Johnny Bench (C) REDS. The coaches did some signals during the World Series in the 1970's on batters even with his great talents. The coaches signals did helped on the pitchers best combo on certain batters .

A Good pitcher and a good catcher plus a tracking history on batters can be a awesome tool for getting the outs at the plate. So going 50 50 on pitch calls is a strength for any team.