Clarification Please.

[DynastyFastpitch]

Not to beat a dead horse but this is truly one of those topics that give you 10 different answers from 10 different people.
1.) Is a girl that plays for middle school/high school team (OHSAA) rules apply, allowed to have "private instruction" from her summerball coach? If so, what constitutes "private?" I think OHSAA rules said something about they are allowed individually or in groups as long as it is "private." But what does that mean? A paid coach? Also, what is considered a "group?" A group of players from different schools? So if a girl cant practice with her summerball team during the middle/high school season, these rules seem to not make sense. Any clarification would be great, thank you.

2.) Can a middle/high school coach (paid position) coach his/her summerball team during his/her middle/high school season?

I know this topic gets crazy and it seems to change every year, that's why I'm asking. Thank you!

 

[wvanalmsick]

Hope this helps. From the OHSAA website, General Sports Regulations: http://ohsaa.org/sports/rglts/GeneralSportsRegulations.pdf

8. Regulations for Participation in Camps, Clinics, Workshops and Programs Where Individual Instruction is Provided

8.1) Definitions

8.1.1) Definition of Individual Skill/Coaching Instruction ? Instruction or coaching provided to a member of a school team in which the techniques and skills of the sport are being taught.

8.1.2) Definition of Providing Individual Skill/Coaching Instruction ? It is considered to be providing individual skill/coaching instruction when the techniques and skills of the sport
are taught in a one-on-one or individual setting. This means instruction or coaching comes directly to a student-athlete from an instructor or coach.

8.1.3) Definition of Providing Individual Skill Instruction ? Team Sports of Baseball, Basketball, Field Hockey, Football, Ice Hockey, Soccer, Softball and Volleyball and Selected
Individual Sports of Cross Country, Track & Field and Wrestling with School Coaches
? It is considered to be providing individual skill/coaching instruction in the above mentioned team sports and selected individual sports with school coaches when the techniques
and skills of the sport are taught when no more than four members of a school team or individuals are present at one time in all facilities where the instruction or coaching is taking
place.

8.2) Permissible Individual Skill Instruction

8.2.1) Team Sports of Baseball, Basketball, Field Hockey, Football, Ice Hockey, Soccer, Softball and Volleyball and Selected Individual Sports of Cross Country, Track & Field and
Wrestling

a.) During the Season ? Individual skill instruction may be received by a member of a school team at any time in a one-on-one/individual setting or in group lessons from non-school
coaches or instructors provided this instruction does not violate any Board of Education, school administrators? or coaches? policies.

b.) From August 1 through May 31 From School Coaches ? Individual skill instruction may be received by a member of a school team at any time prior to and after the school season
and outside the defined no-contact periods from school coaches provided that no more than four members of a school team or individuals are present at one time in all facilities
where the instruction or coaching is taking place.

c.) From June 1 through July 31 From School Coaches ? Individual skill instruction may be received by a member of a school team at any time from school coaches provided that no
more than four members of a school team or individuals are present at one time in all facilities where the instruction or coaching is taking place. For additional instruction permitted
from school coaches between June 1 and July 31, see General Sports Regulation 7.5.1.

d.) From August 1 through May 31 From Non-School Coaches or Instructors ? Individual skill instruction may be received by a member of a school team at any time outside the
season of play.

e.) From June 1 through July 31 From Non-School Coaches or Instructors ? Individual skill instruction may be received by a member of a school team at any time in a one-on-one
/individual setting or in group lessons from non-school coaches or instructors provided this instruction does not violate any Board of Education, school administrators? or coaches?
policies.

Exception ? Students from school teams may be used for out-of-season demonstration purposes if approved in advance by the Commissioner?s Office.

8.2.2) Selected Individual Sports of Bowling, Golf, Gymnastics, Swimming & Diving and
Tennis

a.) Individual skill instruction may be received by a member of a school team at any time in a one-on-one or individual or in a group setting from either school or non-school coaches or
instructors provided this instruction does not violate any Board of Education, school administrators? or coaches? policies.
Notes: Students from school teams in these individual sports shall not be required to attend the camps, clinics, workshops or programs where individual skill instruction is provided. A paid
or unpaid school (interscholastic) coach employed by a Board of Education or other governing board violates this regulation when he/she suggests or implies that a student?s chance to be
selected for a school (interscholastic) team is contingent upon this participation.

8.3) Penalties for Violation of Regulations in This Section

8.3.1) The maximum penalty for violation of these regulations by a member of a school team shall be ineligibility for interscholastic athletics for a maximum of one year.

8.3.2) The maximum penalty for violation of these regulations by a paid or unpaid school (interscholastic) coach employed by a Board of Education or other governing board shall be
suspension from participation in camps, clinics, workshops and programs where individual skill instruction is provided to members of the school team where employed for a maximum
of one year and any other penalties in Bylaw 11-1-2, Penalties, as deemed appropriate by the Commissioner?s Office.

Note: It is not a requirement for schools to register their instructional programs with the Commissioner?s Office, nor to have these programs sanctioned or approved.

 

[wow]

Ahh clear as mud. These rules are designed to raise more questions then answers. That's why there are so many threads about them.

Why is that OSHAA thinks they own these kids? I know this is a contested topic but other states don't have these silly rules. Especially the states which are hot beds for college recruiting.

IMHO OSHAA hurts the kids in more ways then it protects them.

 

[tjsmize3]

Ahh clear as mud. These rules are designed to raise more questions then answers. That's why there are so many threads about them.

Why is that OSHAA thinks they own these kids? I know this is a contested topic but other states don't have these silly rules. Especially the states which are hot beds for college recruiting.

IMHO OSHAA hurts the kids in more ways then it protects them.

Very true! The answer to your (rhetorical) question, however, is that OSHAA never has had anything to do with the best interest of the kids. It is an organization designed solely to enforce what is best for high-school softball... often times at the expense of the kids if need be. Until there is a player's organization or other other outside group at the table that takes into account the best interest of the kids, OSHAA will continue to remain unchecked and run amok in Ohio.

 

[coachjwb]

I have to respectfully disagree some, Tom. Let me preface what I say though with that I will agree that some of the rules are too restrictive, and that I am not saying necessarily that the rules are better for the players than they are worse. But I do believe the main purpose of the rules is at least intended to protect the student-athlete.

I am a big fan of high school athletics and believe that they provide the student an experience that travel/AAU/elite ball does not. Plus, there is no doubt in my mind that if we didn't have the OHSAA rules we have, that some high school coaches would be mandating that their players would have to play for them or the team they wanted them to play for in the off-season. And we'd have some travel coaches who would either be making their players quit high school ball, or force them to do both during the school season and stretch them way too thin, not allowing them any time to do their studies or maintain a balanced social life ... God knows teenagers are already under enough pressures.

I'll start with those arguments ... I think there are more. And again, I'm not saying that the rules in total are good ... just that I think they are "intended" to be good for the student-athletes.

 

[Stupid Jim]

easy way around it, charge a dollar, and it becomes paid instruction

 

[Heavy Hitter]

Be careful with the paid instruction thing. Yes, a student/athlete is allowed to receive paid instruction but if OHSAA believes that it is a cover for a travel ball practice they can still rule the student/athlete ineligible. OHSAA would suspend the student/athlete for the rest of the year and possible part of the next season and the school team would have ff every game she played in.

A ms/high school coach can coach a travel ball team as long as no more than 4 players from the school he/she coach's at are on the team.

 

[twogirlsdad]

Be careful with the paid instruction thing. Yes, a student/athlete is allowed to receive paid instruction but if OHSAA believes that it is a cover for a travel ball practice they can still rule the student/athlete ineligible. OHSAA would suspend the student/athlete for the rest of the year and possible part of the next season and the school team would have ff every game she played in.

A ms/high school coach can coach a travel ball team as long as no more than 4 players from the school he/she coach's at are on the team.

Isn't there another rule regarding no contact periods that excludes softball contact from August 1st to a specified date that would exclude High School and Middle School coaches from coaching any player on their roster in a travel ball setting, regardless of the numbers? This was stressed two to three times in the online rules meeting. I have been waiting on someone to clarify this or bring it up, but it basically said, no fall activity whatsoever, if one or more players was on your interscholastic team.

 

[tjsmize3]

I have to respectfully disagree some, Tom. Let me preface what I say though with that I will agree that some of the rules are too restrictive, and that I am not saying necessarily that the rules are better for the players than they are worse. But I do believe the main purpose of the rules is at least intended to protect the student-athlete.

I am a big fan of high school athletics and believe that they provide the student an experience that travel/AAU/elite ball does not. Plus, there is no doubt in my mind that if we didn't have the OHSAA rules we have, that some high school coaches would be mandating that their players would have to play for them or the team they wanted them to play for in the off-season. And we'd have some travel coaches who would either be making their players quit high school ball, or force them to do both during the school season and stretch them way too thin, not allowing them any time to do their studies or maintain a balanced social life ... God knows teenagers are already under enough pressures.

I'll start with those arguments ... I think there are more. And again, I'm not saying that the rules in total are good ... just that I think they are "intended" to be good for the student-athletes.

Jeff, you and I both agree that high school athletics has a lot to offer kids (and parents). We also sort of agree that many of the OHSAA rules probably, in part, are intended to protect the student athlete. But there is no question that the OHSAA serves as its primary purpose to protect the institution of high school athletics first and foremost. Maybe "run amok" is a bit dramatic, but the fact is to my knowledge there is no opposing opinion at the table that has the best interests of the student athlete first. So until you see an effective Ohio high school version of something like the NFL/NBA players association or NCPA, the OHSAA will continue to make decisions for student athletes as they see fit. This means when rules decisions need to be made that may put the best interest of the athlete at odds with the institution of high school athletics, there is ALWAYS going to be a clear winner. This may explain why so many for so long have come on here to question the wisdom of some of these rules decisions.

 

[Doug666]

I would like to add to the confusion. Last year a friend contacted me because he was concerned that his daughters' summer travel ball coach was conducting mandatory group conferences via telephone on Sunday evenings in April and May. The coach discussed strategies and situations that the team would use during the upcoming season. I told my friend that I believed the travel ball coach could not have contact with his players after the no contact date in February. Not sure if this group conference meeting is a violation or not?

 

[Heavy Hitter]

Softball Coach — No Contact Period

2016 - 8/10-9/7/15
2017 - 8/8 - 9/5/16
2018 - 8/7 - 9/4/17
2019 – 8/6 - 9/3/18
2020 – 8/5 - 9/2/19
2021 - 8/10 - 9/7/20

There used to be an exception if your team was playing at nationals at the beginning of August. But, OHSAA might have changed it.