How many pitchers

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Well said "flashy"!!

 

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Very well said Flashes!

 

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DD goes to same pitching coach as Beck, but is first year 14-U. Has control and good placement of fastball, and great change-up. Has been working, and I say working on Rise, she's not strong enough yet for the true rise, so we work on perfecting the spin and speed, I know what she throws is an upshoot and nothing more, and so does her coach. He says it takes a longgggg time to perfect this one, so starts on the spin. She is learning currently working on drop, and has been working on screw. If asked, she has 2 solid pitches and a pretty good upshoot. I know her coach would agree with that, and is not the type to claim they throw pitches they can't.

Flashes10
I can honestly say that I've never heard of an "upshoot" pitch. I googled "upshoot pitch" and "fastpitch upshoot" and it returned (warning: graphic) very undesirable results. Anyway, is this a pitch your pitching coach created?

Len

 

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I beleave he is talking about what most girls throw and call a riseball which is actually nothing more then a high fastball???

 

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So.....Is a drop ball that doesn't drop, rather thrown down at an angle then called a downshoot????

 

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I believe pitches should change planes, if the hitter can adjust to a correctly thrown drop the result will likely be a ground ball as the hitter hits the top of the ball. Very few female pitchers can throw a true rise and the rule of thumb speed wise is 57+. The key to the rise is spin, period! A tight 6 to 12 rotation at 20+ rps will get is to rise. It is not easy to adjust in or out on a breaking pitch but the good hitters do. Adjusting up to a pitch you have committed to is nearly impossible, keep in mind that I am talking about pitches that actually move. In my opinion the change-up is the most devestating pitch in our game, the 2007 Arizona thrower Tarwn Mowatt put on cahange-up-clinic during the World Series. I wonder how many great or very good flat pitch throwers there are playing high level ball.

 

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I carried 4 on a rec tourny team, and I would have to agree with Lenski, it didn't work. Two were pretty good pitchers who we threw most of the time. The third was an amazing fielder who carried herself quite well as a middle infieder. I did have her close a couple of games, and she was successful in that. It probably would have worked pretty well with just the three, however, the fourth IMHO was never an answer to a pitching concern. Although she's not a bad pitcher, she is too hittable (slow), especially in that venue. The problem with that was she and her parents were not happy due to lack of mound time. This progressed into a player who just wasn't having fun and didn't, or couldn't, contribute to the team anywhere else. It was an unfortunate situation which ended pretty ugly. I play to win and have absolutley no regrets in my decisions to use 2 pitchers 90% of the time. The third pitcher was a blessing in a couple of unique situations where we found ourselves needy . The fourth was a little over kill, but could have helped in other areas. We just never saw that side of her all summer. Like I said before, made for a bad situation.

 

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If Candrea had carried only one pitcher in the medal round (Abbot), Team USA would have won the gold.

Pitching is just like real estate. The three most important factors: location, location, location. I will use Mark Fidrych (Detroit Tigers, mid-70s) as the best example of that. His fastball rarely exceeded 80 MPH, but it also rarely was thrown above the knees or over the middle of the plate. He suffered an arm injury which cut his career short, but for a couple of seasons, he was virtually unbeatable.

Factor 4 is changing speeds.

Factor 5 is movement.

If girls work on the location part first, they'll also learn how to be pitchers as opposed to "throwers."

 

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Flashes10
I can honestly say that I've never heard of an "upshoot" pitch. I googled "upshoot pitch" and "fastpitch upshoot" and it returned (warning: graphic) very undesirable results. Anyway, is this a pitch your pitching coach created?

Len

No, it is not a pitch the pitching coach created. She is saying her DD is "working on her rise". They just call it an upshoot. A drop ball that doesnt drop is a down shoot. Just nicknames of in process of learning a pitch.

 

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4thegame...
Great response. Made me laugh also.

 

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I beleave he is talking about what most girls throw and call a riseball which is actually nothing more then a high fastball???

Thank you for making that clarification. This is exactly what it, a backspin I guess. DD is only 13 and I have never claimed a dominate pitcher.

 

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The theory of two horses and pony is nice but difficult to put into practice. Daughter has been horse on several bad to mediore teams the last several years. This season signed on a better team with understanding she would be pony (would get pool game and cover for starters). She was fine with that and new her role before season started. Worked fine 1st 4 tournments. Her record was 3-1 and era under .5 , she enjoyed having a defense behind her and team that could put runs on the board. Last four tournaments saw three inning of relief only. Was used another position when did not pitch.
End of year was released. (actual waited till after tryout to tell her)
Coaches said there was just not enough inning for 2 1/2 pitchers.

There is no perfect number of pitchers. Anytime you have more then one someone going to be unhappy either about inning their pitching or who pitching which game.

 

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I wonder how many great or very good flat pitch throwers there are playing high level ball.

I'll answer that......few to none.

Chip makes a great point. I hear many people say "Location, Location, Location". And I agree, location is important, but not as important as location coupled with changing planes. A good hitter can adjust to a location pitch that stays on the same plane. It is very hard for a hitter to adjust to a different plane and location once they start their swing. Chip also states that a change-up can be the most devastating pitch. I totally agree. A great change-up appears to look like a belt high fastball that ends up being about 17mph slower and drops off the table. The change-up is the best of both worlds...it gets the batter out in front then changes planes. It can make even the best hitters look absolutely foolish.

Len

 

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I don't think there is a magic number. We have tried to carry 3 the last few years & it seems there is always at least one, sometimes two, that don't want to do their homework or show up injured. It is all so variable...how do they throw, what do they throw, what is the make-up of your defense with them on the mound/in another position.

On a side note: am I one of the few that think it is ridiculous to rank pitchers as team's #1, #2, and so on?

 

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what age group are you talking about not ranking them...?

 

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It does depend on your pitching staff. If you have two great pitchers that work hard and are on a good percentage of the time you can get by with two starters. I would not have more than three that considered themselves "starters". In my experience girls get better by practicing and repetition but there are lessons than can only be learned by mound time. When you have too many pitchers to divide mound time between you are not helping any of them in my opinion. Most serious pitchers are hungry for mound time and a four or more pitcher rotation is a hard pill to swallow.

 

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Why would a pitcher have to throw 4 or 5 games on Sunday if you have 2 quality starters. 4 or 5 games is the max you are going to play 95 % of the time. I tried 3 STARTERS and it didnot work. If you have 2 pitchers you have total confidence in like I do the only reason you have a 3rd is for emergency backup.
In my case I alternate starters even on Sunday. If you can do that then I believe 2 is enough. JMHOS

Tom

 

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I actually agree with you wholeheartedly. I was just saying I wouldn't want to take more than three. I am not currently coaching but when I did I actually had 1-2 starters with 1 relief pitcher. But it seems many teams are now of the attitude the more the better. I have had several coaches tell me you can never have too may pitchers. I personally believe that hinders the growth and development of your pitchers when they are unable to get enough mound time. I have seen some really make huge strides when put in positions where they were challenged and pitched frequently. Like I said, it all depends on your pitching staff and how reliable they are and how hard they work on their own.

 

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This isn't a "one size fits all" situation. There are a LOT of variables - from how healthy your pitchers are to what caliber of team it is. Sure - coaches would LOVE to have 6 top notch pitchers, just like we'd all like 20 cents a gallon gasoline! But everyone knows that's NOT reality.

A team that is just above rec. level is more likely to have and keep several pitchers, because they usually aren't pitching specialists, and typically play multiple positions. Playing the outfield is a lot more fun than sitting the bench.

Carrying 3 or more pitchers on a college exposure team though usually is a recipe for disaster. The third pitcher sitting on the bench or playing outfield at Compuware is NOT going to be a happy camper. If her goal is to pitch in college, she better be in the circle as many innings as possible at showcases in TOUGH games.

Lower level (non-college prep) teams can use the baseball pitching philosophy, but that just won't work for a showcase level team. As parents, you and your DD need to decide where she fits in. The reality is that the top teams in Ohio frequently pick up their pitchers with a phone call and a private tryout.

 

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what age group are you talking about not ranking them...?

Yes, please specify the age groups.
At 12U we had 3 and a backup, at 14U we have 3 and a backup. (plan on long sundays hopefully!) Nationals is a whole new ball game!