Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Too many pitchers??

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I had a question, maybe someone could answer it.....Why would a parent put their pitching DD on a team that has 4 or more pitchers already. Lets say that this organization is big and known for winning tournaments. Is winning trophies all that its about? If my DD pitched I'd be looking for a team that needed pitching so I could assure lots of innings for her. At a 16U level you need exposure for high school and college, your not going to get exposure sitting on the bench being the 4th or 5th pitcher.

 

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It depends on your coach's philosophy. Do your pitcher's only pitch or do they play other positions when they arn't pitching? If they all sit on the bench when they arn't pitching then I'd say 4 or 5 is too much. We had 3 this season with 2 usually in the game at other positions. One got injured and I wish we really had a fourth girl. When you play a large tournament on a hot weekend, it was rough on the two who had to carry the load.

 

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Steve, I wonder the same thing about ANY position, not just pitching. ?IMHO there are too many teams out there looking for talented girls for any girl to sit the majority of a season on the bench, pitcher or not. My dd pitches but she has also been taught to play anywhere else she is needed. (I am not saying she breaks records in all other positions, but she could be used in a pinch) That is very important in my eyes. If we don't limit our dd's abilities we may open up different avenues in their game. JMHO

 

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At the 12U level we carried 4 pitchers, although 3 of the girls got the majority of work due to an injury. I think that 3 pitchers, with a 4th that can throw when the game is not "important" is the right mix.

In pool play, all 3 pitchers work, but once we get into bracket play, the majority of the work may go to the 2 girls who are "hot" that weekend.

I get the impression that older teams may do just fine with two pitchers splitting the majority of the work, with a third girl who will pitch occasionally. A team that is three deep with great pitching has an edge.

If you want your daughter to pitch (or if she wants to pitch, which is not the same thing), and she is not one of the three top pichers, then you may want to reevaluate your choice of a team.

 

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I believe that it is important that they play another position as well as pitching but I just hate to see big organizations take all the pitchers. Later the parents find out that there are more than just their daughters that are pitchers on the team and hundereds of dollars later its too late to go to another team and they are stuck. We are a new team with no pitching and I've seen it over and over again pitchers going to big organizations because they have a lot offer, nice facilities, trophies and things like that. I was just wondering if they are being honest when they tell the parents that their kids are #1 or #2. Has any other parents been told that their DD's were going to get pitching time and didn't? I'm sure there is.

 

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I must say, I am sure this is rare. My daughter joined a team late in the 2006 season, very late. The coach was honest and told me that he already had his starting pitcher and my daughter would be one of 3. She did get some time on the mound. I think that is important to be honest. Like I stated I am sure this is not common.

Seeing that the Wrath is a new team for the 2007 season, I do not want to lie to people just to get them to sign, only to have BIG problems down the line.

 

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Good point!!


I believe that you can have to many pitchers on one team. Its a waste of talent if you ask me. I believe that the coach leads the parents to believe that there dd will be #1 or #2 and when they end up putting 3 more pitchers on the team there kid gets pushed further down the chain. For most teams 3 pitchers should be a fair amount (even playing time for all). I am a new team as well so as far as the pitching goes like i said there will only be 3 bottom line. No need for any more. Well this post should carry many opinions from parents and players.


Vipers

 

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IMO, Ideally you have 3 Pitchers. Use all 3 for pool play and ride the ace through the bracket with the other 2 ready to go. If you have 5 pitchers it will be hard to share 1 ball all year.

 

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I don't think there is a perfect magic number. It depends on the team, pitchers, playing positions, parents desires, etc.
In 2005 we had two studs, three pool play pitchers. In 2006 one stud of 2005 gave up pitching, the other had difficulties with the mental game struggled early in the season but started coming back at the end of the year. Two of the 2005 pool play pitchers stepped it up and became the studs of 2006, two more stepped it up and became the pool play, of which one young one moved into elimination games by the end of the season.

ALL OF OUR PITCHERS play other positions, and not just one position. All players on our team are taught as many positions as possible to make our depth strong and the overall knowledge of the game better throughout.

Who knows where and how they will be in 2007 as far as pitching. There is never a #1, #2 or #3, it depends on the opponent, mood of the day, heat of the weekend, rain or shine, etc. Maybe the defense is overall stronger with the #3 pitcher on the mound.

We have three of the five 2006 pitchers returning for next year (one moved up to 16s and one went back down to 12s), we added two more that we look forward to having a part of the action, and yes they will learn other positions. No promises are ever set, purely work and effort and teamwork.

 

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If you have 1 or 2 very strong pitchers then 3 is a good number, doing a 2 pitcher rotation and having a 3rd to do pool games.....honesty up front is very important, #3 needs to know they are #3 and generally have an alternate position. What I have observe from the teams with too many pitchers is the coach trys to keep them all happy by putting them @ other positions and there by angering the regular position players....the kid that signed as a starting short stop is on the bench so pitcher #3 can play and the starting right fielder is on the bench so pitcher #4 can get into the game and the starting first baseman is on the bench so pitcher #5 can get into a game, makes for a very un happy dugout.....And no I don't think I would want my DD pitcher on a team with that many pitchers.....you see it alot @ 18u.... Nobody gets quailty time to show their stuff and the #1 and #2 don't have the defense they deserver to support their skills.....JMHO, I am sure there is someone who has worked in this system that is very happy with it....

 

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But.......should your starting second baseman needs a break, I bet coach would be glad that pitcher #2 or #3 can play second base. JMHO
Let me give an example. My dd pitches, we are involved in an indoor fall league where the girls just have fun. there is no score keeping, no big trophy at the end. My dd asked me if she could play short stop, of course this is just for fun and I said yes. Turns out that she HAS been paying attention to ol' mom and knew exactly what to do, where to cover and when to do it. I always tell my girls during a practice, "I may not be directing my instruction at you, but you should be paying attention, you never know when you might be needed to cover for someone else."
I guess this all boils down to the same old question, how many on a roster? Pitchers or not. If there are 12 girls on your roster and 4 of them are pitchers...........

 

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The original question was about pitching time at 16u. In the younger age brackes many more games are played than in 16/18u. After the past 2 high school seasons my DD's team played 44 and 43 games. At 12u/ 14u they averaged 104.
I'd have to say that 44 games divided by more than three wouldn't leave to many people happy. If a three pitcher rotation was used that would leave 14 starts per pitcher. If one of the pitchers was dominant and the third or even second pitcher never saw Sunday that would greatly limit the number of available innings. In a five pithcer scenario the fourth and fifth pitchers would never see anything but mop up duty. If a pitcher is in this situation I'm not seeing much room to improve especially if they aren't getting many varsity innings in high school. I'd have to say if your daughter wants to pitch stay away from that situation. She's not going to improve as a utility player.

 

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Steve, back to the original post. I don't know why a parent would do that other than they may have been mislead in the beginning. I don't think any parent would intentionally sign with a team if they were told their dd would get very little time on the mound if any at all. I may be wrong. HMMMMMMM.

 

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I would hope not but the almighty trophy could be stronger. Thanks for the response coaches and parents, I was hoping that we might be all on the same page.

 

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I don't think the original question was really answered here. Steve, I don't think most 16U or 18U girls are playing for trophies. By this age, they usually have more trophies than they know what to do with. I can think of 4 reasons why this would happen:

1) Parents/girls haven't asked the right questions to know where they stand
2) Coaches haven't been honest about this
3) They want to play with friends and/or girls they have played with in the past
4) They want to play with organizations where they can learn a lot from the coaches and/or get exposure to college coaches

I would like to think that #4 is the reason most of the times. Lets face it ... a new organization has this working against it. It hasn't proven anything yet and its a risk for a girl who wants to play college ball to spend a whole year with an organization which may not help her meet her goals. A new organization is going to have its hands full playing long on Sundays, qualifying for national tournamanents, etc. This is just a fact of life.

 

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coachjwb - many good points in your post. 16's and 18's don't care about hardwarer - they just want to win. Usually good pitchers on travel teams HAVE to be able to play other positions in order to play in college. College pitchers are few and far between.

Way back when - (entering the way back machine) my daughter played for a pretty good Stingray team. They won their share of big tourneys and played in many college exposure tournaments. I think 9 of the kids are playing college softball now. They had 7 girls on the team that pitched for their HS teams. Only 3 pitched in the summer! They just loved playing with eachother. Only two of them are pitching in college. We are using that same concept down here. Our 12u team has 5 girls that pitched for their travel teams last season. The parents want their daughters to be trained at other positions - as well as pitch when needed. We also turned away 3 TOP pitchers because we knew their parents wanted them to be the main pitcher and get most of the innings. That is not the formula I would recommend. Playing over 20 tournaments with only one or two aces won't work.

Just my opinion

 

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A question for the other side of the story that was started by Steve1968 ..... ?

What about the pitcher that moves to what is thought to be a ?"big name" ?team or organization, even after being told that they will get less time pitching, just so they can get the "exposure" of the "big name" team? ?If the pitcher is one of 4 or more pitchers, exactly what kind of exposure, or playing time, are they going to get? ? ?

Personally, I hope that every girl gets the exposure that she is looking for, big name or otherwise, especially if she is trying for scholarship money, just offering a different perspective.

 

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If a girl's goal is to get exposure to college coaches, its just important to realize that no exposure comes from being the best player on a 16U/18U team that doesn't go anywhere or play anybody. As a parent of a daughter who has a goal to play in college, its my job to help her find the most competitive team with the best coach we can, where she should have a reasonable chance to play her position on a regular basis as long as she keeps working hard. That being said, we have had to rule out teams that were either new or who only planned to stay local.

 

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BUT.... it also does no good to be on the BEST team and not pitch. found that out with my son. you need to be playing for the college coachs to see you.You have to search for the right team where your daughter will be playing and where they win enough games to be seen.
i think three is the magic number. fair amount of games for all. and i say you rely on who is the hottest at the time once pool play is over.. if your lucky all three will be hot.

 

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Here's some honest thoughts and comments - and I don't mean to raise any hackles, just observations.

If you want your daughter, as a pitcher, to get exposure to college coaches, she HAS to be a #1 or #2 pitcher on a top level showcase team - NOT #3, in the outfield, or on the bench.

If she is not skilled enough as a pitcher to make this type of team, how do you expect her to get onto a college team?

This is getting the cart before the horse. The skill set MUST be there for the college coaches to notice you.

Even if you could BUY your daughter onto a top level team (Heaven forbid!), if she is not skilled, no amount of exposure at showcase tournaments will make her better, or get her a scholarship. Probably quite the contrary.

Why not hook up with a really skilled pitching coach who can honestly evaluate your daughter's potential. If she's Div. I material, she'll have NO PROBLEM catching the eye of a showcase team coach at their tryout. If she really, honestly works very hard at improving, her name will come up frequently as one of the top pitchers, and coaches wil be calling her, not the other way around!