Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Illegal pitch

[CoachB25]

To clarify, my point was that the pitcher in the OP was leaping with both feet off of the ground. The reference to the circle was to give an idea to members here about the distance the pitcher was leaping.

 

[Softball Dad]

I agree. It is frustrating to see one teams pitching staff following the rules and another staff not follow the rules and not be penalized. Leaping, crow-hopping, replanting, etc. do give the pitcher an unfair advantage. These "tricks" increase speed or at least allow the pitcher fewer things on their mind. If you ever watch a game where the umpires start to force the pitchers to pitch legal after giving warnings you will notice a sharp decline in the performance of the pitcher. The rules are there for a reason and should be enforced. Once the rules are enforced on a regular basis the pitchers and coaches will ensure proper pitching technique. For now they will not change and give up the advantage when there is no penalty.

 

[CoachB25]

I do know this about pitchers and illegal pitches, mention it to the umpires one time and perhaps two then move on. Don't bring it up to your team. It is out of your hands then and can result in a lot of negativity for a team and get your team off its game.

 

[CARDS]

Watching the Missouri vs. Michigan game the announcers were talking about Michigan's pitcher and how she was told if she did not learn to pitch "legally" her Freshman year she would not pitch again for Michigan.

Announcers said "she was allowed to pitch illegally" her entire HS and travel ball career so she had to relearn how to pitch without a crow hop etc.
Kind of makes you wonder how does the scout or whoever recruited her not know she was pitching illegal?

 

[El Spizo]

Watching the Missouri vs. Michigan game the announcers were talking about Michigan's pitcher and how she was told if she did not learn to pitch "legally" her Freshman year she would not pitch again for Michigan.

Announcers said "she was allowed to pitch illegally" her entire HS and travel ball career so she had to relearn how to pitch without a crow hop etc.
Kind of makes you wonder how does the scout or whoever recruited her not know she was pitching illegal?

Probably did know she was but didn't care, figured she could be broken of it by coaches at UM. Scouts and coaches for nearly every sport no longer care as much about technique as they do physical ability and that you fit the physical stat chart/eye test. The general assumption being their coaches are smarter and better at coaching than your HS coach.

this is true of most sports and when you get a talented kid that's not coachable, that's your typical "bust" prospect in a nutshell.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

Probably did know she was but didn't care, figured she could be broken of it by coaches at UM. Scouts and coaches for nearly every sport no longer care as much about technique as they do physical ability and that you fit the physical stat chart/eye test. The general assumption being their coaches are smarter and better at coaching than your HS coach.

this is true of most sports and when you get a talented kid that's not coachable, that's your typical "bust" prospect in a nutshell.

This is true - I've been told by coaches "We don't care about how they do, We care about potential {and with a laugh} it dosent matter what their mechanics are they are probably doing it wrong anyway because we didn't teach them yet"

 

[jt7663]

Is this Legal?? While we have covered all areas on this topic How about a Pitcher approaching the pitching plate & never stopping although in contact entire time She starts just behind plate & is walking up from behind Plate stepping on plate & delivering pitch without ever stopping on plate. ...... (Her Hands are seperated prior to pitch & footwork is ok not crow hopping)

 

[daboss]

Is this Legal?? While we have covered all areas on this topic How about a Pitcher approaching the pitching plate & never stopping although in contact entire time She starts just behind plate & is walking up from behind Plate stepping on plate & delivering pitch without ever stopping on plate. ...... (Her Hands are seperated prior to pitch & footwork is ok not crow hopping)

That is not legal. The walk thru pitch is one used by many instructors as a training maneuver to get the girls to follow out when they finish their pitch. It also creates momentom for the forward thrust or push off the pitching plate. The step or walk thru pitch is not legal, even if the hands are apart then brought together within the mechanics of the pitch.

 

[BretMan2]

Is this Legal??...

No. The pitcher must pause on the pitcher's plate, with hands separated, and take (or simulate taking) her signal.

If the batter isn't ready yet, this is a quick pitch and ruled as "no pitch" (dead ball, pitch is cancelled, no ball or strike, cannot be batted into play).

If the batter is ready, then this is an illegal pitch (live ball, may be batted into play, etc.).

 

[BCsoftballDad]

Bretman,

What determines if the batter is "ready'? This year more so than in years past, I have watched pitchers deliver the pitch the second a batter has both feet in the box and the umpires hand is down. The batter is clearly not "ready" but the umpire allows the pitch to be delivered. I have watched batters that are still measuring off, setting their feet with their bat still on their shoulder not even looking forward and the pitch is allowed to be delivered. Most of the coaches and players just make adjustments to the pitcher who I perceive as quick pitching and usually end up on the losing end of the affair. I am talking about a few seconds, nothing drastic by the batter.

Andy Dyer

 

[BretMan2]

Bretman,

What determines if the batter is "ready'? This year more so than in years past, I have watched pitchers deliver the pitch the second a batter has both feet in the box and the umpires hand is down. The batter is clearly not "ready" but the umpire allows the pitch to be delivered. I have watched batters that are still measuring off, setting their feet with their bat still on their shoulder not even looking forward and the pitch is allowed to be delivered. Most of the coaches and players just make adjustments to the pitcher who I perceive as quick pitching and usually end up on the losing end of the affair. I am talking about a few seconds, nothing drastic by the batter.

Andy Dyer

There's no specific stance or guideline in the rules that defines the exact moment when a batter is ready. It's up to umpire judgment. Personally, for me it's when the batter has settled into her normal batting stance and is focused on the pitcher.

I've seen umpires go with "as soon as the batter's feet are both in the box" and allow a pitch to be thrown the instant a batter steps in. That isn't the intent of the rules and is the very reason there are rules against quick pitching! It's hard enough to hit a pitch as it is, let alone when it's thrown and you're not ready. The pitcher is NOT supposed to throw one when the batter isn't ready. You want the pitcher and the batter to be on as even footing as possible, both of them ready, and not engaged in some cat and mouse game to catch the other off guard.

 

[FastBat]

...I doubt leaping really helps a pitcher.

I agree, it doesn't necessarily help a pitcher when she's leaps or crow hops. I believe the pitcher would probably be too "forward" during the delivery of pitch.

Over the years I would say I have seen more problems with "field preparation"...

Including the "circle" is not the correct dimensions either.

The pitching circle really has ZERO to do with illegal pitches. There's no rule that says the pitcher can't stride out of it.

I agree. But, going side-to-side out of the pitching lane is a violation. Example, a pitcher throwing a back door curve, could potentially pull herself out of the lane side-to-side. That's a violation. I think that creates confusion with pitching rules.

As far as pitching stride distance, I have read any stride exceeding more than 120% of a pitcher's height is too large a stride and won't be beneficial to a pitcher. How many pitchers can actually stride that far? IMHO, not many, because that's really something that is very hard to be teach. However, if your young pitcher can stride greater than 120% of their height, I would suggest to allow them to "grow into" their large stride and not worry about throwing strikes or anything else, especially in 10u. A pitcher with a large but proportional stride would have an advantage as they age, JMHO.

 

[FastBat]

What determines if the batter is "ready'?

This should be within reason, but I know, it's up to the ump. I saw a player last week, lay her bat on the ground to measure off her feet distance from the plate. I thought, "that's for coach pitch not 12u softball." I'm still not sure if she was measuring off or just trying to waste time?

 

[BretMan2]

Another weekend, another tournament, and another half-dozen illegal pitches called. I'm going for the season record!

No leaps or crowhops this time. All were hand violations (no separation/pause before the pitch, double touches) and one licking the fingers without wiping off.

A follow up to last week's illegal pitch calls...

One team's pitching coach (also the pitcher's father) was incensed that we called his pitcher for an illegal pitch. Started an argument on the field because he claimed the other team's pitcher was illegal. Said that we weren't "calling it the same for both teams". This despite having called a different pitcher on the other team for THREE illegal pitches!

Coach went to tournament director and complained about the umpires, claiming (falsely) that he was told to "shut up and get off the field" (total fabrication).

Tournament director contacts head of umpires, then head of umpires contacts me to find out what the problem was.

Illegal pitches = DRAMA! Which is probably why so many umpires shy away from calling them...

 

[wvanalmsick]

Bretman needs to start wearing a GoPro. LOL

 

[sftball follower]

If the SP from Auburn vs. FSU tonight is throwing a "legal" pitch, then there is no such thing as an "illegal " pitch......

 

[BretMan2]

What's she doing illegal?

 

[Dawgsdad]

She continues to step out of the "pitchers box" or whatever its called. I wondered why she has never been called too.

 

[BretMan2]

She continues to step out of the "pitchers box" or whatever its called. I wondered why she has never been called too.

The rule is that it's a violation to step COMPLETELY outside of the 24" width of pitching lane. If any part of the foot- even just a toe!- is touching the lines, then it's not a violation.

It looked to me like some small portion of her foot was contacting the line. That's legal.

 

[Dawgsdad]

You're correct about the video. Usually, the ball of her foot touches the outter part of the line but her heal is definitely out of the lane. Good to know, thanks. Btw....can a right handed pitcher start with her right foot on the outside of the pitching plate? She is touching but instead of using it to push off of, she is merely just making contact. Seen it this weekend and was curious.