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Wondering if any hitting instructors have used this product line and what is their opinion? DD has mechanics and balance down but looking for ways to increase strength & work towards next level.
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Maybe search for "hand weighted gloves" since Howard discusses the benefits and reasons over a heavy bat training technique.
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Thanks, Lester.
According to their website..."Our innovative line of training bats give players of all ages a safe, mechanically sound way to warm up and train with weighted bats without affecting their natural swing. Used as an integrated system, they build strength, improve bat speed and increase core power.Traditional barrel-weighted products (like donuts and sleeves) can corrupt a player?s swing by pulling their arms away from their body to create a negative ?casting effect.? Even worse, they can cause strain or even injury to the player?s arms, hands, wrists and elbows.
With the HeavySwing line, the proprietary handle-weighted design promotes the proper swing plane and solid rotational mechanics, keeping the hitter?s hands ?inside the ball? to help create a smooth, powerful and natural swing."
Anyone tried this??
Although, weighted gloves may be less expensive than their $180 bat
According to their website..."Our innovative line of training bats give players of all ages a safe, mechanically sound way to warm up and train with weighted bats without affecting their natural swing. Used as an integrated system, they build strength, improve bat speed and increase core power.Traditional barrel-weighted products (like donuts and sleeves) can corrupt a player?s swing by pulling their arms away from their body to create a negative ?casting effect.? Even worse, they can cause strain or even injury to the player?s arms, hands, wrists and elbows.
With the HeavySwing line, the proprietary handle-weighted design promotes the proper swing plane and solid rotational mechanics, keeping the hitter?s hands ?inside the ball? to help create a smooth, powerful and natural swing."
Anyone tried this??
Although, weighted gloves may be less expensive than their $180 bat
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Read the hitting section on heavy bats. You will find must of the posts are against heavy bats for the reason that are posted. Even swinging an end loaded bat will mess up some kids swings. It will cause you to drop your hands for one thing. Keep in mind breaking pitches in softball are different than baseball. Riseball for example.
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My opinion and just that.
When I moved on to college baseball I learned that it was all about strength and training of the legs, abs, obliques ect that would increase power. I did work on heavy hand drills but my coach in college never promoted heavy bats because it honestly does not increase bat speed and rather decreases it in most cases. I don't know age of your daughter but explosive drills and high rep work outs to strengthen core and legs will show the best results once technique is solid with swing. My daughter is 10U that I coach but we still do conditioning for legs and core to help them. Best of luck.
When I moved on to college baseball I learned that it was all about strength and training of the legs, abs, obliques ect that would increase power. I did work on heavy hand drills but my coach in college never promoted heavy bats because it honestly does not increase bat speed and rather decreases it in most cases. I don't know age of your daughter but explosive drills and high rep work outs to strengthen core and legs will show the best results once technique is solid with swing. My daughter is 10U that I coach but we still do conditioning for legs and core to help them. Best of luck.
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This might help.....it is only part of the study and I suggest looking up Coop Derenne studies. I stay within 12 percent of the game bat swing weight. I have found keeping the weight in the hands does not affect swing path and understanding MOI or moment of inertia also helps. Go to Dr. Russel at Kettering University for a better understanding.
Howard
Southard and Groomer (44) have reported that after warming up with a weighted bat of 15.6 N (56 oz), standard bat (9.1 N, or 34 oz) moment of inertia
significantly increased, and bat swing velocity significantly decreased.
It must be stated that the ‘‘normal’’ bat used in Montoya et al.’s (33) study and the ‘‘standard’’ bat used in Southard and Groomer’s (44) study were both overloaded bats because they were either 1.5 or 4 oz heavier than the ‘‘ordinary standard high school or college’’ game bat reported by DeRenne and colleagues (14, 16, 21). Southard and Groomer (44) have concluded that baseball batters should warm up with their respective standard game bats and that using a bat with a larger moment of inertia will reduce bat velocity and change the batter’s swing pattern. Montoya et al. (33) also suggest not swinging a heavy bat in the on-deck circle because it produced the slowest bat swing velocities.
The results of 4 studies (14, 16, 21, 44), presented in Table 1, reveal that average game
bat swing velocity was increased for high school, college, and ex-college baseball players after warming up in the on-deck circle using under- and overloaded bats within 612% (27–34 oz) of standard game bat weight (30 oz).
In addition, DeRenne and colleagues (14, 16, 21) have concluded that very
heavy (donut ring and 1445.8-g, or 51-oz, bat) or very light (652.0 g, or 23 oz) warm-up implements had adverse effects (decreases of 2.2 m_s21, or 5 mph, slower) on standard game bat (850.5 g, or 30 oz) velocity.
Howard
Southard and Groomer (44) have reported that after warming up with a weighted bat of 15.6 N (56 oz), standard bat (9.1 N, or 34 oz) moment of inertia
significantly increased, and bat swing velocity significantly decreased.
It must be stated that the ‘‘normal’’ bat used in Montoya et al.’s (33) study and the ‘‘standard’’ bat used in Southard and Groomer’s (44) study were both overloaded bats because they were either 1.5 or 4 oz heavier than the ‘‘ordinary standard high school or college’’ game bat reported by DeRenne and colleagues (14, 16, 21). Southard and Groomer (44) have concluded that baseball batters should warm up with their respective standard game bats and that using a bat with a larger moment of inertia will reduce bat velocity and change the batter’s swing pattern. Montoya et al. (33) also suggest not swinging a heavy bat in the on-deck circle because it produced the slowest bat swing velocities.
The results of 4 studies (14, 16, 21, 44), presented in Table 1, reveal that average game
bat swing velocity was increased for high school, college, and ex-college baseball players after warming up in the on-deck circle using under- and overloaded bats within 612% (27–34 oz) of standard game bat weight (30 oz).
In addition, DeRenne and colleagues (14, 16, 21) have concluded that very
heavy (donut ring and 1445.8-g, or 51-oz, bat) or very light (652.0 g, or 23 oz) warm-up implements had adverse effects (decreases of 2.2 m_s21, or 5 mph, slower) on standard game bat (850.5 g, or 30 oz) velocity.
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Stay within 20% over/under bat weight. Seems the Soviets have been studying this concept since the 1970's. This article explains it quite well. Bat Speed Drills - Bat Speed Training - How to Improve Bat Speed
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Agree it started in the 1970's by the Russian's.....however 12 % was concluded to work better than 20 % by Coop DeRenne.
Howard
"The most notable study on the use of overload underload training for bat speed improvement comes
from Coop DeRenne, one of the world's premier research leaders in terms of overload underload training for baseball. DeRenne and colleagues came to the same conclusion as many of the world's top sports scientists which is: overload underload training is simply one of the simplest and most effective ways to make significant
performance improvements in a short amount of time."
"The results of 4 studies (14, 16, 21, 44), presented in Table 1, reveal that average game
bat swing velocity was increased for high school, college, and ex-college baseball players after warming up in the on-deck circle using under- and overloaded bats within 612% (27–34 oz) of standard game bat weight (30 oz)."
Howard
"The most notable study on the use of overload underload training for bat speed improvement comes
from Coop DeRenne, one of the world's premier research leaders in terms of overload underload training for baseball. DeRenne and colleagues came to the same conclusion as many of the world's top sports scientists which is: overload underload training is simply one of the simplest and most effective ways to make significant
performance improvements in a short amount of time."
"The results of 4 studies (14, 16, 21, 44), presented in Table 1, reveal that average game
bat swing velocity was increased for high school, college, and ex-college baseball players after warming up in the on-deck circle using under- and overloaded bats within 612% (27–34 oz) of standard game bat weight (30 oz)."
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Thanks for all the great input! 12U DD currently swings a 31" 20 oz. & since their smallest bat is 32" 40 oz., we'll have to pass. Definitely outside the recommended 12-20% heavier. We'll try the strength training & conditioning route which she really dislikes. Loves swinging the bat on the other hand
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Mark in my opinion if you are using heavy bats thinking you are building up strength your on the wrong track and I agree with you. Using different weighted bats in the 12 % range help with speed and quickness. We do a drill where I throw a tennis ball, hard ball, softball, a weighted softball that weighs 10.8 ounces and then a 14.99 ounce TCB ball. I want them to swing quickly and efficiently on every pitch and type of ball in my opinion and using the bats beyond 12% of their normal weight breaks a swing down as to the mechanics of the swing. I have made special bats that are 10 to 12 ounces in the handle and have a sliding weight internally that are longer to hit just tennis balls and it has been very effective.
Howard
Howard
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Howard, wouldn't the swing break down at point of contact hitting a heavier object. If it's suggested not to swing heavier than 12% normal bat weight, I can't see why it's acceptable to hit an object that is 100% greater weight than normal? Granted swing path would be the same with a normal bat until contact. At that point, swing path would have to deflect greatly. In short, you aren't hitting a 15 oz ball the same you would a 7 oz ball; therefore, causing an alteration/compensation is swing mechanics. Increasing the load at contact puts greater stress on the wrists or shoulders?? I would think strength training would be the only logical route??
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John coming to a sudden stop puts the shoulder, wrist and elbow in a stressed situation. A coach in our area had a hitter with overuse injury from hitting 20 to 25 TCB balls in a row as it was part of their pre game warm up. If that coach chooses they can expound on it. I contacted the TCB people and suggested they put a disclaimer in their instructions not to hit more than 4 to 6 balls in a row. To the best of my knowledge they did that. The ball is designed to compress upon impact and IF you do not hit the ball squarely it is evident in the "feel" at contact....to the ball and through the ball. I personally have never had a student complain when doing this drill ever. They do not come to a sudden stop like hitting a tire or basket ball.
Being able to teach that the hips, turn the spine and the spine turns the shoulders may be why we do not have any issues as we do not push the bat. That in my opinion creates the momentum from the ground up by using a soft front knee during contact and going through the ball. Slow to load and soft to step on a flexed front knee. This is why we teach how to throw before we even talk about hitting. The female ACL works more like a ball joint and the male works more like a hinge. The male knee is fired by the glutes and it does not happen on the female. It is for childbirth which is why you observe the female being upper body dominant. Simply put a female at the top of a staircase and a male.....turn your back and listen as they descend and tell me if you can hear which one sounds louder. They can be taught however!
The weight shift during the Elvis move to box puts the hitter into a position in my opinion to allow the weight to shift with maximum efficiency....just like for throwing. In my opinion the heavy bat and you can try it yourself, breaks the swing down. Staying in the 12% range makes sense to me. You can also try this....IF you use a bungee bat, take a piece of painters tape about 6 inches long and place it vertically at the belly button. Also take a piece of painters tape and as a right handed hitter place a piece of painters tape on the right hip at the seam of the shorts. Have them stand with the belly button towards a mirror and do the matrix drill slowly and see if the hips move first or if the hands move before the hips.....I would not allow that student to hit a TCB ball as they do not have a quality swing in the first place.
How do you measure bat speed or do you? Have you ever tried this with a WHIPHIT? It weighs very little and we have hit tennis balls, hardballs, softball, the heavier softballs and yes the TCB ball. Because of the rope there is NO vibration or resistance in the handle and you better have a good hand path.
Howard
Being able to teach that the hips, turn the spine and the spine turns the shoulders may be why we do not have any issues as we do not push the bat. That in my opinion creates the momentum from the ground up by using a soft front knee during contact and going through the ball. Slow to load and soft to step on a flexed front knee. This is why we teach how to throw before we even talk about hitting. The female ACL works more like a ball joint and the male works more like a hinge. The male knee is fired by the glutes and it does not happen on the female. It is for childbirth which is why you observe the female being upper body dominant. Simply put a female at the top of a staircase and a male.....turn your back and listen as they descend and tell me if you can hear which one sounds louder. They can be taught however!
The weight shift during the Elvis move to box puts the hitter into a position in my opinion to allow the weight to shift with maximum efficiency....just like for throwing. In my opinion the heavy bat and you can try it yourself, breaks the swing down. Staying in the 12% range makes sense to me. You can also try this....IF you use a bungee bat, take a piece of painters tape about 6 inches long and place it vertically at the belly button. Also take a piece of painters tape and as a right handed hitter place a piece of painters tape on the right hip at the seam of the shorts. Have them stand with the belly button towards a mirror and do the matrix drill slowly and see if the hips move first or if the hands move before the hips.....I would not allow that student to hit a TCB ball as they do not have a quality swing in the first place.
How do you measure bat speed or do you? Have you ever tried this with a WHIPHIT? It weighs very little and we have hit tennis balls, hardballs, softball, the heavier softballs and yes the TCB ball. Because of the rope there is NO vibration or resistance in the handle and you better have a good hand path.
Howard
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Guilty we were! This revelation forced us to become more educated as the big guy said and we are better for it. The assumption portion of this was that we didn't expect a player that hits for power regularly would have been hurt by this warmup. It did...and we are smarter now than before.
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A couple years back we were given for FREE TCB large size balls. I did not like them because of the fear of injury so I gave them away...
To me it was like hitting BB Balls or tires so we did not use them.
However; the smaller balls we got for free I had no issues with and it is a good training tool when used to accompany other drills.
I have never used "heavy hitting products" but over the years my findings are it depends on the player when finding good hitting prep training tools. Also remember any training tool or drill has no value if used incorrectly.
I would never pay more than $150 for a bat so, paying $180 for one of the Heavy Bats seems a bit much...
My DD swings 26/27oz sticks and has been for some time, She has used wrist weights, donuts and sleeves over the years for training with no issues.
Her bat speed over the years "has decreased" but her power / hitting numbers have increased....
Most likely I contribute this to building "power/strength" to allow her to use leverage and striking force with the longer heavier bats over the years ... As part of the training learning how to stretch and improve agility is key. I have seen a ton of ladies that could benifit in all performance areas(fielding,hitting, throwing,running) by learning how to stretch before activity/play (even at the college level).
Know where you want to go. Do not dream about it plan for it.Set goals and Make It Happen!
To me it was like hitting BB Balls or tires so we did not use them.
However; the smaller balls we got for free I had no issues with and it is a good training tool when used to accompany other drills.
I have never used "heavy hitting products" but over the years my findings are it depends on the player when finding good hitting prep training tools. Also remember any training tool or drill has no value if used incorrectly.
I would never pay more than $150 for a bat so, paying $180 for one of the Heavy Bats seems a bit much...
My DD swings 26/27oz sticks and has been for some time, She has used wrist weights, donuts and sleeves over the years for training with no issues.
Her bat speed over the years "has decreased" but her power / hitting numbers have increased....
Most likely I contribute this to building "power/strength" to allow her to use leverage and striking force with the longer heavier bats over the years ... As part of the training learning how to stretch and improve agility is key. I have seen a ton of ladies that could benifit in all performance areas(fielding,hitting, throwing,running) by learning how to stretch before activity/play (even at the college level).
Know where you want to go. Do not dream about it plan for it.Set goals and Make It Happen!
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Good stuff but have a kid with truly great bat speed already that doesn't trust it or should I say understand it. She is out early all the time and she in all truth can wait forever to make her decision and start her accerlation to the ball. Any suggestion on drills or approach to help her leverage her greatest assett at the moment(80+ mph batspeed).
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Dennis I agree the 20 ounce balls are too heavy and we do not use them.
Bat speed is interesting. Crystl had a bat speed of 79 miles an hour and Albert Pujols had a bat speed of 86.99 MPH per GQ magazine. There are hitters who have great bat speed and still can not hit the ball. So possibly vision, timing and tracking the ball has some affect based on the player.
Having bat speed of plus 80 MPH and is early on everything would indicate to me she has no comprehension of timing or rhythm in my opinion. Breaking it down as to when to load and when to stride and ultimately when to swing can be learned. A pretty good hitter I know said to a group of parents that just because your daughter has a drivers license does not qualify her to drive a car at NASCAR at a hundred plus miles per hour...so swinging a bat at 80 plus MPH is useless until she learns how to control it in my opinion.
If I had a choice I would want my hitter to swing with good bat speed with a bat she can control and good things will happen, especially when the balls being pitched are in the 50 plus MPH range.
However I still would rather the weight be in the hands verses donuts etc. If the hitter does not understand when to allow the wrists to release the bat head on time it would not make any difference if she could swing a fence post 80 MPH if she does not hit the ball and it does not go where it supposed to go.
My choice has been to use the 12% range, timing, rhythm, vision, tracking, weight shift and that the hips turn the spine and the spine turns the shoulders.
Howard
Bat speed is interesting. Crystl had a bat speed of 79 miles an hour and Albert Pujols had a bat speed of 86.99 MPH per GQ magazine. There are hitters who have great bat speed and still can not hit the ball. So possibly vision, timing and tracking the ball has some affect based on the player.
Having bat speed of plus 80 MPH and is early on everything would indicate to me she has no comprehension of timing or rhythm in my opinion. Breaking it down as to when to load and when to stride and ultimately when to swing can be learned. A pretty good hitter I know said to a group of parents that just because your daughter has a drivers license does not qualify her to drive a car at NASCAR at a hundred plus miles per hour...so swinging a bat at 80 plus MPH is useless until she learns how to control it in my opinion.
If I had a choice I would want my hitter to swing with good bat speed with a bat she can control and good things will happen, especially when the balls being pitched are in the 50 plus MPH range.
However I still would rather the weight be in the hands verses donuts etc. If the hitter does not understand when to allow the wrists to release the bat head on time it would not make any difference if she could swing a fence post 80 MPH if she does not hit the ball and it does not go where it supposed to go.
My choice has been to use the 12% range, timing, rhythm, vision, tracking, weight shift and that the hips turn the spine and the spine turns the shoulders.
Howard
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Having a fast bat speed without the ability to time or get square on the ball, is like seeing how fast you can shoot a round down range without knowing where the target is. I personally like 2 things when working the over load . The edge weighted gloves and a heavy wooden or end loaded bat doing proper and slow matrix type movements. To me its all muscle memory retention of hand path. Once that is down pat then start stop at contact swings with that set up. It is consistent contact you are trying to achieve, and then proper timing for that contact, knowing when and where to pull the trigger, on what pitch on what part of the plate.
I never use heavier than swing weight on full swing front toss or pitching machine. If its speed your looking for develop your hand path, develop correct timing and develop the proper drive off the back side thru the ball, the speed will come.
Tim
I never use heavier than swing weight on full swing front toss or pitching machine. If its speed your looking for develop your hand path, develop correct timing and develop the proper drive off the back side thru the ball, the speed will come.
Tim
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Nemo is the guru on under and overload speed work drills and techniques for my money. Have been to two of his clinics and have been using his drills with my players for a while now, bottom line is we've definitely increased speed and power to our swings. Those that have really bought in have seen great results.
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