No contact with travelball girls?

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From another thread...

Here is what makes the OHSAA Bylaws so confusing, and it could be easily cleared up if they wanted to. ?There are areas that conflict with one another, and really leave you guessing. ?I'm still trying to put the pieces together to prove my point, but here is what I have so far.....

1. ?In the first section you see that the OHSAA recognizes March 31st as when the season begins. ?One would think that this would be the cut off date for non-interscholastic participation.

Because they state in 4.4.1..That a member of an interscholastic fast pitch softball squad sponsored by the Board of Education shall not participate in a non-interscholastic program (tryouts, practice or contest) as an individual or as a member of a team in the sport of fast pitch softball during the school?s season. ?School season begins March 31st. ?But wait.....

2. ?In the second section, they state that a member of an interscholastic fast pitch softball squad is....(any student who has played in a scrimmage, preview or regular season/tournament game as a substitute or starter) sponsored by the Board of Education. ?

So now the date can fluctuate from one team to the next, because of when we start our scrimmages. ?Some players may fall into this as early as March 17th, if their team gets a scrimmage in, or if a team has no scrimmages, their players would not be recognized as a interscholastic member till they play their first game, which could be the first week in April.

3. Your allowed to participate on a non-interscholastic slow pitch team during your HS season

4. ?And ?4.7 states that participation in indoor fast pitch softball is not a violation of OHSAA non-interscholastic
team Bylaw 10-3-4 for student-athletes. THIS MAY BE THE MOST CONTRADICTING STATEMENT OF THEM ALL!!!

What an absolute Debacle and a Travesty!!! ?:-? >
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

2008 OHSAA Softball Calendar

Feb. 25 First Day of Coaching Pitchers and Catchers Only
Mar. 10 ?First Day of Coaching
Mar. 31 Season Begins
May 4 Sectional Tournament Draw Date
May 5 Non-Interscholastic Competition No Longer Permitted
May 5 - May 17 Sectional Tournament
May 19 - May 24 District Tournament
May 30 - May 31 Regional Tournament
June 5 - June 7 State Tournament
June 14 Season Ends
Aug. 4 - Sept. 1 Coaches' No Contact

?

SOFTBALL-FAST PITCH 2007-08
4) Non-Interscholastic Participation
4.1) A member of an interscholastic fast pitch softball squad (any student who has played in a scrimmage, preview or regular season/tournament game as a substitute or
starter) sponsored by the Board of Education shall not participate in a non-interscholastic program (tryouts, practice or contest) as an individual or as a member of a team in the sport of fast pitch softball during the school?s season (Bylaw 10-3-1).

10-3-1 A member of an interscholastic squad sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board shall not participate in a contest, tryouts or any type of training or practices on a non-interscholastic squad or as an individual in a team sport (See Bylaw 10-3-4), in the same sport during the school?s interscholastic sports season.

4.4) A girl playing on a school fast pitch softball team MAY participate on a non-interscholastic
slow pitch softball team at the same time with the permission of the
school coach. This is not a violation since the OHSAA only recognizes fast pitch
softball as a sport.

4.7) Participation in indoor fast pitch softball is not a violation of OHSAA non-interscholastic
team Bylaw 10-3-4 for student-athletes.
4.8) In accordance with Bylaw 10-3-6, interscholastic fast pitch softball coaches are
prohibited from coaching their own interscholastic squad members in indoor fast
pitch softball except for 10 days from June 1?July 31.

 

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Shane...go to bed. Aren't the pitchers and catchers wearing you out? ;D

 

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Shane...go to bed. ?Aren't ?the pitchers and catchers wearing you out? ;D

The last 2 days there has been no school, so no pitchers and catchers. What else does a HS coach have to do...

 

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SBFamily-

You ARE allowed to practice with your travelball team past 2/25/08 up until the kids on your team have played in ANY type of scrimmage, preview.

There is NO set date! It is when the kids play in some type of contest against another team from another school.

2/25 is for Pitchers & catcher, They can report for "coaching or instruction" NOT the rest of the team! This includes freshmen, and new players to the program. (The rest of the team MAY still condition or have "open gyms" WITHOUT coaching or instruction, that is the key to that rule.

3/10 is for the rest of the position players to report for "coaching and instruction".

3/31 is when a high school team is ALLOWED to play their 1st regular season game.

So my understanding of the rules is that ANY travel team may continue to practice with any girls that have NOT played in a scrimmage or preview. After they have played against another team they are NOW off limits until the team they play for is eliminated from OHSAA sponsored tournament or season is completed and the high school coach releases them OR June 14th is the last day a high school coach can keep his players from participating with a travel team, even though the OHSAA State Championship is played on 6/5 - 6/7.

Jamie Wolff

 

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Ok, one more question on this as it pertains to me? I have a 12U team and I have a few 7th graders. Only one that is playing for a school sponsored program. the others are club and therefore do not effect their eligibilty with us. my team does speed and agility training each week that they paid for. My understanding is that she can still participate in that training??? I am just checking here??

Coach K.

 

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Crush 1

Until she plays in a school sponsored program's first scrimmage or preveiw. ?After that she can not participate or she and her school team are subject to sanctions by OHSAA.

 

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To muddy the waters even more, when can the girl return to her travel team?

OHSAA 2008 Softball rules say:

4.1) A member of an interscholastic fast pitch softball squad (any student who has played in a scrimmage, preview or regular season/tournament game as a substitute or starter) sponsored by the Board of Education shall not participate in a non-interscholastic program (tryouts, practice or contest) as an individual or as a member of a team in the sport of fast pitch softball [highlight]during the school?s season[/highlight] (Bylaw 10-3-1).

4.3) A student may not play in a non-interscholastic fast pitch softball contest, game or scrimmage, while a member of the school fast pitch softball squad, [highlight]until the student?s school team has completed its schedule[/highlight]. This includes tournaments when applicable.

BYLAWS:

10-3-1 A member of an interscholastic squad sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board shall not participate in a contest, tryouts or any type of training or practices on a non-interscholastic squad or as an individual in a team sport (See Bylaw 10-3-4), in the same sport during the school?s interscholastic sports season.

10-3-3 A member of an interscholastic squad sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board who is dropped or quits during the school?s interscholastic season may participate on a non-interscholastic team squad or, as an individual, in the same sport but is ineligible for further interscholastic competition in that sport for the remainder of the school?s interscholastic season.

So, by these rules, a girl can return to her travel team when:

1. ?Anytime after she quits or is released from the school sanctioned team prior to the end of its schedule.
2. ?When the team has completed its schedule, including all tournament games. ?

 

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I would be careful what you consider "completion of schedule" high school coaches may not release JV players at the end of their scheduled JV season for the chance that they may use them at varsity.

Also some programs have practices and activities after the end of the scheduled games and therefore players are not "officially" released.

 

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wvanalmsick -

[highlight]So, by these rules, a girl can return to her travel team when:

1. Anytime after she quits or is released from the school sanctioned team prior to the end of its schedule.
2. When the team has completed its schedule, including all tournament games. [/highlight]


Yes and No....

1) I'm not sure about if she quits! She is STILL rostered on an OHSAA eligibility certificate for "xyz school" and by quitting, let's say in 2008, the she decides to play again in 2009, she "MAY" have broken a OHSAA eligibility rule thus making her in-eligible for the 2009 season. That is a good question that the OHSAA may have to answer.

2) Your statement is TRUE!...... BUT......The High school coach CAN hold ANY player up until the 6/14/08 date. That is the last day a High School coach can keep a player without officially releasing her.

 

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I see RATTLERS made a GREAT point about JV players. They too are rostered and can NOT participate even though the JV SCHEDULE has been completed. The High school coach has to release them to be able to play.

If they practice / play with a travel team and a high school coach does NOT know that and plays them in an OHSAA sponsored Tournament game or any VARSITY game that player would be ineligible. If that player would play and get caught, the team would have to forfiet the game.


Please be careful for ALL the girls sake!!! If you have ANY questions ask the player for the High School coaches number and call to make sure! No harm...No foul!!

 

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Ok, one more question on this as it pertains to me? ?I have a 12U team and I have a few 7th graders. ?Only one that is playing for a school sponsored program. the others are club and therefore do not effect their eligibilty with us. ?my team does speed and agility training each week that they paid for. ?My understanding is that she can still participate in that training??? ?I am just checking here??
Coach K.

According to these two areas of the OHSAA Bylaws, you should be ok in running speed and agility training, because teaching of fundamental skills and
conducted for learning theory, techniques, rules, game procedure and strategy, is not considered a "Contest", and you have to participate in a "Contest" to be considered a non-interscholastic team.

1-4-2 Instructional clinics and demonstrations designed for the teaching of fundamental skills and
conducted for learning theory, techniques, rules, game procedure and strategy shall not be counted as a scheduled contest.

Section 2. Definition of Non-Interscholastic Team
10-2-1 A non-interscholastic team is an organization composed of players in or out of school which participates in a contest, no matter whether admissions, collections of expenses
are involved, or whether a coach is present or not, and regardless of whether instruction
is given. Examples of non-interscholastic teams include?but are not limited to?Sunday School, Church, Intramural, Y.M.C.A., Shop, Hi-Y, C.Y.O., F.F.A., City
Recreation, All-Star, A.A.U., Club, any non-interscholastic team, or any combination
of players involved in team play.

 

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So, one way around the rules would be.....Charge a fee, call it a clinic and then you can have practice.

Would that be allowed? You are providing training of fundamental skills, conducting ways of learning theories, techniques, game procedures....And not playing against any other team or competition.

Is this right Shayne? Just wondering?

Jamie Wolff

 

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Here is a contradiction in their rules, that I just posted above.

10-3-1 A member of an interscholastic squad sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board shall not participate in a contest, tryouts or any type of training or practices on a non-interscholastic squad or as an individual in a team sport (See Bylaw 10-3-4), in the same sport during the school?s interscholastic sports season.

So you'll have to decide for yourself what they mean..... :-?

 

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Thanks for the reply, that is what I was thinking, but I wanted to get the all knowing opinions of the OFC.. See Ya on the field

Coach K.

 

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So, one way around the rules would be.....Charge a fee, call it a clinic and then you can have practice.

Would that be allowed? You are providing training of fundamental skills, conducting ways of learning theories, techniques, game procedures....And not playing against any other team or competition.

Is this right Shayne? Just wondering?

Jamie Wolff

I have read and heard many times, that if you were to charge each girl ?X amount $$$, you could continue to hold practice sessions with you team, and consider it a training session or a clinic. ?If you think about it, it is no different than a girl going to her pitching coach, for a lesson during her HS season, which is allowed.

The more I get into these Bylaws, the more confusing it gets!!

 

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Jamie: let me clarify the 2-25 Date: ?As Joe stated earlier. All our pitchers and catchers are told by the high school coach they must attend 6 day a week practice starting that date. ?As Joe stated it doesn't leave much time for travel ball practice and if you talk to most high school coaches, they expect you to stop travel ball practice at that time. ?That is the date most of them go with ?RIGHT OR WRONG, as Joe stated earlier. Keep in mind most high school coaches are not willling to share a girl with her traveling team after that date.! ?As Shayne stated ?This is my Opinion . ?That is what I have found out over the years ?coaching traveling ball. If you have a high school coach willing to allow you to coach ?a kid and miss his practice more power to you. It depends on the relationship you have with the high school coach. I'm sure you can do that if you are talking about the Ashland High school coach.. I kind of agree with the high school coach on this subject, since it will be at least three months before she can play for me, what is a practice over the next 4 weeks going to do for me, but harm that relationship..

The JV girl released. I had a 14U team that picked up a JV girl released from high school by the Coach ,.AD. due to grades. ?She was allowed to play travel ball. So it can be done, if done properly.

 

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So, the AD really needs to be an Attorney.

It is really amazing for as long as OHSAA has been around with their bylaws that there has been no really serious misinterpretations. Of course, it has only been a year or two that OHSAA stopped taking calls from the public and made everyone go through their AD.

 

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What you will find out is the AD is held accountable for the rules. Lady_Knight is not only the coach but the AD.
If you read J J Huddle, schools are getting turned in for rule violations this year. Now that they won't take phone calls, is amazing they catch anyone.

 

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Shane, when are you going to go to Law School? ?Maybe you can get JoeA to give you the short course. ;D

 

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[quote author=SBFAMILY link=1203559012/0#19 date=1203868079]643dp: ? ?You are correct. No , after 2-25-08, you cannot practice.