Ohio fp - the next level??????????

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Isn't this who the Lasers are? For example?

With a handful of other organizations recruiting across the state also, looking to build teams that can win regionally, and nationally? I do believe that part of the Laser's mission is to recruit all over Ohio, finding the best and most dedicated softball players, and compete for a national championship, and national branding. Not saying this is good or bad, or making any judgement about the Lasers, or anyone else. Seems to me that in today's environment in Ohio, it is easier for organizations with this type of vision to initiate, recruit, and focus on these types of goals than it would be for the entire body of Ohio Softball to come together in agreement.

I think this concept is already at work, but done privately outward. Those that have this vision and commitment are already doing it. The higher order concept of getting the entire village to focus inward is noble, but probably not very likely.

It is a great discussion, and initiation of ideas though.

BTW, your Chicken Parm was awesome, we made it recently!

 

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good point Pic' . Lasers sent two 12 u teams to asa nats last season. Black actually gets on a great run and finishes higher than the gold, but we all know gold was talented enough for a top ten run also. Due to population differences we are never going to have Corona Angels ALONG WITH Batbusters, Next Level, Power Surge, San Jose Sting, etc and etc I'm on board with being the absolute best we can be but we will never have the depth of talented teams Cali does due to population.
If ohio did put together an org like this who would they play to get better ? Playing up was a good option until it was discovered it can held against you. good winter thread ! MD

 

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good point Pic' . Lasers sent two 12 u teams to asa nats last season. Black actually gets on a great run and finishes higher than the gold, but we all know gold was talented enough for a top ten run also. Due to population differences we are never going to have Corona Angels ALONG WITH Batbusters, Next Level, Power Surge, San Jose Sting, etc and etc I'm on board with being the absolute best we can be but we will never have the depth of talented teams Cali does due to population.
If ohio did put together an org like this who would they play to get better ? Playing up was a good option until it was discovered it can held against you. good winter thread ! MD

You are absolutely correct. Lets say the Lasers changed their methods where it came to coaching. Lets say they got Hillhouse, Lilly, ect. to be the trainers, and some other very qualified person(s) to be the coaches. How many teams at each age group could we field that might be competitve?. Maybe two, as they do now. Softball, I think, is getting more popular, and seems to be attracting better athletes. That is one factor that would have to happen. We can not afford to lose potential 6`3 girls to basketball or volleyball when they might develop into the next Cat or Jenny. Ohio has a host of very good fielders, lord knows they get enough fielding opportunities, because our pitching depth is not there, yet. Our hitters only look good because they are hitting off our pitching.
This elite organization would have to be willing to travel extensively around the country to find the type of competiton to test their skills consistantly. That is essential to getting better, facing great teams, a lot.
We all know there is talent in Ohio, but with few exceptions, they are woefully under developed, especially depth wise and experience wise, when compared to other parts of the country.

 

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Pic, I have to agree with you. The Lasers organization was the first thing to come to my mind when reading Trip's opening post. Great topic and food for thought though, so thanks Trip.

Trip, much as I think Howard should get top dollar for all his work, he doesn't charge for his incredible knowledge of the science of hitting, his inventiveness in translating that to something the girls can "feel", and his hundreds of annual hours teaching Ohio girls. I hope that people realize that he makes these voluntary contributions for the good of the sport and of Ohio players, not for money.

 

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OMG we have another Quakerflake!!! Everyone please step away from your computers very slowly....

I saw this....lol a few days late..but I saw it.

It's funny. Just tonight I was talking the team thing in the chat room and asked what age group would be good to start at. I have a coach in mind. Very smart coach I think. Everybody suggested 12u and build. Might look into it for 2011 season.

 

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Looking from the outside, hasn't the concept of a "super team" in Ohio been tried on several occasions? Not entire orgs, just individual teams. The question I have to ask is "WHERE DID THEY GO??" Every year in Ohio, it's the same orgs at the top of the heap. The ones with the perennial reputation of being the "better" teams/orgs. Occasionally a newbie comes along, but they seem to disappear. And sure, a few Ohio orgs send a team here and there west for Nationals, but no one in good conscience can say they CONSISTENTLY compete at the level of the Coronal Angels, Pastime, Batbusters, etc.

Most notably, I'm speaking of the one team EVERYONE expected to carry the torch for Ohio most recently. That being said, I think assembling this team would be the easy part - KEEPING IT TOGETHER long term (10u - 18u) might be an insurmountable task! Is it just an ingrained Prima Donna mind-set in Ohio? The teams that DO go west on occasion seem to consist of a few EXCELLENT athletes (at least Big 10 level) and the rest are a mix.

It is obvious that the particular manager of the team I am speaking of is the guy for the job. But the big question is - how do you create sustainability in a group of highly talented athletes? If Ohio is trying to compete with Cali, shouldn't we be using their model? How do THEY manage to get all the TOP talent concentrated on a few teams?

 

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I can't help but wonder if it is the prima donna's or the parents.

If I was a coach and I raised a $40,000 budget for a team..... I think I'd have a meeting with the parents and put the facts to them.... "I raised this money to get your daughter's seen by college coaches and a chance at a scholarship...one word and your kids is gone".

To me, that's pretty easy to understand.

 

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THIS LAST PAGE OF RESPONSES IS EXACTLY WHAT MY POST IS ABOUT.

Thanks Pickledad, Punchout, MD, CGS.... others as the comments you make both support the Vision and Identify the gaps with the status Quo.

I would agree that Lasers formed with PART of this Vision, absolutely recruit the best to play the best. However, that is where it ends. Each of those teams are seperate islands with a formula to then find and work resources to their own commitment. Some are much more aggressive then others at TRAINING/DEVELOPING(IE: Lasers Red @ 11u, might be the most pro-active LASER team in actually DEVELOPING their players that I'm AWARE of.

That is one small part of the Vision. Pickledad, MD,punchout, CGS comment about what is currently working but also what is missing. The BRANDING & NETWORKING that is missing. Certified/QUALITY instruction as we as the CONNECTIONS into the real RECRUITING Arena across the Nation(HITTER, Bustos, Hillhouse, Bigtrain, and others that I don't know but hope to meet.)

 

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Then you get back to the distance issue for training....... perfect world scenerio, all the best players in the state lived in the same city, hell even in the same part of the state. dosent work that way, to get the best you have to venture out. With that being said how is the logistics of training possible........ I beleive thats why the Lasers has the mind set they do.... you work your own skills on your own time and be ready game day to play.... I get it,,,,,, I just dont understand how its possible.
Now After Playing devils advocate I,ll play the mad scientist. Ohio has 4 basic regions,IE: sw,nw,ne,central, sorry se I dont hear alot from you all there so dont know what you have........ If you were to take the best from those areas indivdualy where they would be close enough to train......... then Yes I can see you making an impact. just a crazy thought.. Guess ive been around Quakerman to much.
Keep at it TT.......... some good always comes from hard work

Tim

 

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Back when DD played on the Lasers, they were, by far, the best team in Ohio. Only lost to one Ohio team in two years, and that was another, older Laser team.(u18) That team consisted of 2 OSU players(including Gatorade POY, the other a 3 time all stater with over 1000 K`s in high school), 5 MAC players (3 became All MAC and one was an All American) a record setting home run hitter at YSU and 1 ODU player who could have easily played in the MAC. That team was certainly loaded.
I can only imagine how good that team might have been with the training now available to hitters.The only thing that kept them from being a top level national elite team was pitching depth. I still see that as a problem in Ohio. Until we can convince some of those tall basketball and volleyball players to take up softball at an early age, we might continue to struggle for top flight pitching depth.
What if we could have had a Sito and Simpson on the same summer team? What other great players could we then attract? Plenty of west coast teams with even better pitchers than that on the same team.(Again numbers and organization come into play)

 

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We did thus in the 80s with players from Columbus, Akron, Canton, Green and Westerville. The players practiced twice daily in Akron or Columbus. The out of town players stayed with the hometown kids that week. The team lost 3 games that year.
2 of the games the team lost were to California Gordon Panthers with Lisa Fernandez pitching. Lost to them in the winners bracket finals 5-2 and the National Championship game 3-0. Defensively,the Ohio kids were as good as any team we saw play. Pitching was the difference.

 

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greyy,

who were your pitchers?

 

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greyy--welcome aboard , your experience will be valued on here --I hope MD

 

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Then you get back to the distance issue for training....... perfect world scenerio, all the best players in the state lived in the same city, hell even in the same part of the state. dosent work that way, to get the best you have to venture out. With that being said how is the logistics of training possible........ I beleive thats why the Lasers has the mind set they do.... you work your own skills on your own time and be ready game day to play.... I get it,,,,,, I just dont understand how its possible.
Now After Playing devils advocate I,ll play the mad scientist. Ohio has 4 basic regions,IE: sw,nw,ne,central, sorry se I dont hear alot from you all there so dont know what you have........ If you were to take the best from those areas indivdualy where they would be close enough to train......... then Yes I can see you making an impact. just a crazy thought.. Guess ive been around Quakerman to much.
Keep at it TT.......... some good always comes from hard work

Tim

EXACTLY! And again, this CONCEPT, IS NOT TEAM oriented but PROGRAM oriented to SERVE and MEET the NEEDS of who's really out there wanting this level of Commitment, TRaining, Resources, and Exposure without having to jump on a REAL ELITE TEAM from New Jersey, Indiana, Illinois or others. Also, the Vision here is this Program WOULD FEED those 16u 18u Gold Teams NATIONALLY, as we would be INTEGRATED with those who already have the Knowledge and Relationships to EXPOSE the DDs to the HIGHEST recruiting possible.

 

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Dudes, sorry in advance for length of post, but need to get to context a bit!

Had to jump in on this thread as we (Lasers Red 98 – 11U) are working to change the paradigm to align with what is being said here and what is being said on the 20 plus pages noting why California teams are better than Ohio teams.

After a pretty good run in ASA Nationals last year (10U - finished in top 7), we now have a better appreciation for what it takes to make a good run in a Nationals type of format. In short, you need depth and be able to bring your “A” game all day long or in our case, playing 4 or 5 back-to-back games to get out of a bracket.

When you enroll for tournaments early in the year and set your schedule in advance, it can be challenging to find tournaments that are deep enough to represent and prepare the kids for what to expect at a Nationals format. In some cases, our kids did the usual stuff such as batting all left handed, race (using stopwatch times) to first base, and we even ended up doing one where we tried focusing on sliding technique so the contest ended up being who can get dirtiest. While fun at the time, looking back on it, hardly worth the hotel and tournament fees.

Only a handful of the tournaments we did throughout the year really prepared us for a Nationals format and simulated the depth needed to be successful in a Nationals tournament. That said, we played who showed up including other teams from Ohio and teams from Indiana, PA, Michigan, and West Virginia so during our scheduling process, we seemed to be diversified and had a competitive schedule.

This year we are planning (at this point) on doing some of the big named tournaments (Stingrays, GAPPS, Lasers etc.,) but are planning to avoid a number of other tournaments.

Instead, we are trying to get top tier teams (11U, 12U, 13U or 14U – basically take on all-comers) to play weekend series with the sole purpose of simulating depth and the intensity required to make it through a grueling Nationals format. Vision is 4 (or 5) games back to back with certified umpires. We think this model will help us be efficient in controlling costs and hopefully yield positive outcomes for everyone.

We have established a home field in Mt. Gilead and if interested in participating, let me know. Willing to play at our field or yours!

 

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We did thus in the 80s with players from Columbus, Akron, Canton, Green and Westerville. The players practiced twice daily in Akron or Columbus. The out of town players stayed with the hometown kids that week. The team lost 3 games that year.
2 of the games the team lost were to California Gordon Panthers with Lisa Fernandez pitching. Lost to them in the winners bracket finals 5-2 and the National Championship game 3-0. Defensively,the Ohio kids were as good as any team we saw play. Pitching was the difference.

OK greyy, you must have been slacking back then You mean to tell me you could not even get your pitchers up to Lisa Fernandez`s level???....
Welcome aboard. Your input is sorely needed.

 

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JC70: I like the theory.

I have always said why is it so important to play in a large tournament? Let say for instance this... a 24 team tournament ( a 3 pool play and single elims) .

1/2 (12) of the teams play 4 games.. thus only 4 opponents (out of the 24)

6 more just play another round in the eliminations for 5 opponents played (out of 24) in the next round and gone.

So why did it matter if it was a big tournament or not ?

 

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jc70

I like your idea of playing alot in one day and also playing up.

my only question is how do you know you will qualify for the asa/usa nationals.

and not just be playing your invite type scrimmages all year,or does that not matter.

not bashing just want to understand the system

 

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Coach: I'm interested in knowing if that is what they are doing.... going everywhere to play the qualifiers by saving money on off weekends and playing friendlies. Now, that is a reasonable theory.

 

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Dudes,

Couple of thoughts….First: not a coach….supportive parent like many of you, and go where told and carry what told.

Second, we have qualified for the 12U ASA Eastern tournament by winning our first tournament. This absolutely gives us some flexibility and positions us to forego another ASA Eastern tournament (or community based tournament) if we can fill the open weekend with top tier teams and just bang on each other all day.

We will still be attending big name tournaments and probably look at the ASA National qualifier tournament (think only 1 or 2 in this region), but beyond that, believe that playing against "the best" in 4 or 5 game series is the approach to really get at what the kids will experience at any year-end ASA tournament (regional or Nationals).

Challenge is at this point, not getting a lot of interest because it is different approach from traditional travel softball where teams just sign up for tournaments every weekend (note we did this last year too!!).

In order to beat the best (Cali, Texas, etc.) feel we need to play best and train better than the rest!

Good Day!!