Overhand Throwing Speed

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How do you all feel about this? I think that there are alot of girls , no matter how long we work on the proper throwing mechanics, just cannot get it. They come fairly close to doing it right, but I just don't know it they have the talent or their bodies or muscle memory will not allow them to do it. We even go backwards, back to the beginning of simple mechanics, and still they can't get it. I think a coach should recognize this , just try to get the best out of each kids individual abilities while still trying to teach them the right way, but really knowing they aren't ever going to get it right. Whats your opionion on this?

I think both you and Sammy are correct. There are girls...and boys that are not taught proper throwing mechanics. There are also girls and boys that just don't get it and do not work hard to correct the problem. The same is true with hitting, fielding, and running.

Len
 
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There has been a huge awakening about swing mechanics in the last few years. Thankfully, some prominent instructors stepped up and got beyond "see the ball, hit the ball", and actually started TEACHING HOW to properly "see the ball, hit the ball". Because of the in-depth study of swing mechanics, we soon came to realize that throwing and hitting mechanics are very closely related.

The question is: Why do most boys generally know how to throw a rock, and girls, for lack of a better phrase, "throw like girls"? When I was a kid, I don't ever remember anyone teaching how to do a basic overhand throw. Yet, nearly every boy just picked it up on their own. There were exceptions - I grew up in the neighborhood with the late Muskingum softball coach Donna Newberry (and her cousins). Donna could throw a football better than most of the boys. I wish I would have asked her how she learned that when I had the chance.

Extremist, you are right on track, and exactly right! Just as with anything in the teaching/learning process, some will learn, some won't. Some students work hard and SMART at it, some do not. For instructors, the most frustrating thing is students who refuse to practice on their own. It would be great if every student was an eager beaver, but that's not realistic. You just have to do your best with the ones that are there to soak it all up.

I remember when my daughter was learning pitching, there were phases where she regressed - off balance, timing problems - you name it. Fortunately, she had instructors who had the mindset of "going back to square one". Two steps forward, one step back. You cannot move forward until you get the foundation correct. Boring for kids? Not if you're creative.

Top athletes "go back to square one" before every game. Warm-ups should include precisely executed throwing progressions. If not done correctly, it only reinforces bad habits.

The elephant in the room is why are boys "easier to teach" throwing and hitting than a lot of girls? Thankfully, there is progress being made on that topic. It centers around the fact that "girls are not boys" (duh) - their bodies are built differently (double duh!), and therefore work differently in some aspects. A solid knowledge of those differences goes a long way in knowing HOW to teach girls how to throw - AND hit. So, the challenge is getting coaches on board understanding those differences, and adjust their teaching methods to better suit girls.
 
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The elephant in the room is why are boys "easier to teach" throwing and hitting than a lot of girls? .

Because boys that love the sport will watch the pros and try to do exactly what they do, and practice it over and over until it is the same as that pro. If boys see something really cool or with a WOW Factor they will remember it and try to do it the first chance they get, they look for that chance to do it........

Girls can see something with the WOW Factor and by the time they finish saying " WOW THAT WAS COOL" they already forgot what it was.
 
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The flight of the ball is a vector....it has both strength (speed and distance) and direction. The amount of strength needed in a throw is dependent upon how far away the target is and the amount of time necessary to get the ball to the target in time. The strength comes from the legs, hips, trunk, shoulders, elbow, and wrist. Most elbow and shoulder injuries come from improper technique, and the improper technique is the lack of use of the legs, hips, trunk, and elbow angle, causing the thrower to overcompensate by over-extending the elbow and shoulder.

Rule of thumb: Push/stride to perpendicular to target. Start hip rotation and stride foot should land at approximately a 10 to 15 degree angle to target. At the same time the glove and throw hand come just below, then upwards and behind the throw ear, throw hand seperating with ball away from glove hand as the elbow climbs to shoulder level and glove hand tricep facing target. At this point the hips rotate open to target, followed very shortly by the shouders rotating open to target while throw arm starts forward movment towards the target. The throw elbow should be at or very slightly above the shoulder, and the throwing angle should be around 80 degrees. All these movements follow through until until the the pivot/push leg lands parallel to slightly ahead of stride leg.

Len

thanks, this rivals a reply from Howard (Len, I'm sure that gets you all warm and fuzzy:lmao:;&:cap:) very technical. I'm ok with that. Translating "that" into "ah hah"moments for the players is where being a coach comes in.

Of the people on this thread, how many are successful at getting their players to do as written here within the post (all of them, not just Lenski's). Not a jab or back door reason, I'm really curious to how you can make them feel it or live your words. I'm personally and OK at it, not the best but effective with room to get better for sure. We have very few throwing related injuries. When we do, most are due to early season, going to fast into building endurance, and practicing too long. Most of which we have found progression to control this. Just looking for instructive responses and by no means am I calling anyone out on this. Geesh, have to put the fine print out there or the bulls-eye gets blown up... :cool:
 
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thanks, this rivals a reply from Howard (Len, I'm sure that gets you all warm and fuzzy:lmao:;&:cap:) very technical. I'm ok with that. Translating "that" into "ah hah"moments for the players is where being a coach comes in.

Lester, there are many times where I'm in total agreement with people and it doesn't bother me in the least who they are. However, when someone posts something that I deem incorrect and back it up with proof, some people may prove me wrong with better proof, other people might further explain what they meant (in other words I misunderstood what they meant), and yet others deflect from their original statement, start spouting off stuff that makes absolutely zero sense, and their friends come in also using deflection, wierd questions, and other nonsense to try to rescue their friend from total embarrassment. In other words, if you're going to post an "absolute" on this forum, be ready to back it up with solid, concrete proof.

For instance, at the beginning of this thread someone asked for the average overhand throwing speeds of a typical HS age girl, which Lady Knights answered first. I thought the numbers were high, so using data from a couple of recruiting camps I posted the results. LK did come back on and state his comment pertained to HS age girls playing high level travel ball. I took the original question as a "typical HS age girl" so I acknowleged this, mentioned that the results proved that averages were on the low end but within the ranges LK supplied, threw a bit more additional data out for people to see (like running times), and left it at that. That's how a forum like this should work, not spouting off a statement without knowing what you're talking about or without solid evidence, digging a deeper hole by stating other crazy stuff, to the point someone else jumps in trying to save your a$$.

Len
 
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Lester, there are many times where I'm in total agreement with people and it doesn't bother me in the least who they are. However, when someone posts something that I deem incorrect and back it up with proof, some people may prove me wrong with better proof, other people might further explain what they meant (in other words I misunderstood what they meant), and yet others deflect from their original statement, start spouting off stuff that makes absolutely zero sense, and their friends come in also using deflection, wierd questions, and other nonsense to try to rescue their friend from total embarrassment. In other words, if you're going to post an "absolute" on this forum, be ready to back it up with solid, concrete proof.

For instance, at the beginning of this thread someone asked for the average overhand throwing speeds of a typical HS age girl, which Lady Knights answered first. I thought the numbers were high, so using data from a couple of recruiting camps I posted the results. LK did come back on and state his comment pertained to HS age girls playing high level travel ball. I took the original question as a "typical HS age girl" so I acknowleged this, mentioned that the results proved that averages were on the low end but within the ranges LK supplied, threw a bit more additional data out for people to see (like running times), and left it at that. That's how a forum like this should work, not spouting off a statement without knowing what you're talking about or without solid evidence, digging a deeper hole by stating other crazy stuff, to the point someone else jumps in trying to save your a$$.

Len

Or in other words, if your "beliefs" fall within Lenski's "beliefs", you can play in his sandbox. Crazy stuff?

Be very careful when following ANY advice you get from a forum such as this. Just as with ANY research you garner from the internet, the same rules apply here. Scrutinize all the data, and consider the motivation behind what the poster is trying to convey. Is the information provided with the intent to genuinely help your daughter, or merely trying to prove a point?

The game of softball has been very kind to our family. Sincerely wishing everyone, especially your daughters, the best in all their softball pursuits.
 
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Or in other words, if your "beliefs" fall within Lenski's "beliefs", you can play in his sandbox. Crazy stuff?
Not beliefs, absolutes. A belief is an opinion that cannot be proved. Also, this is not my sanbox. This is a public forum and I do not claim to own or reside over any of it. I am merely a member that posts. If you don't like what I have to say there is such a thing called an ignore feature.

Be very careful when following ANY advice you get from a forum such as this. Just as with ANY research you garner from the internet, the same rules apply here. Scrutinize all the data, and consider the motivation behind what the poster is trying to convey. Is the information provided with the intent to genuinely help your daughter, or merely trying to prove a point?
I scrutinized what you posted, and tried to figure out what motivated you to post what you posted. I disagreed with your first post concerning baseball pitchers, and that's when the craziness from you started. I backed it up with proof and you sir did not. Your posts just got stranger and stranger. What point do you think I was trying to make?


The game of softball has been very kind to our family. Sincerely wishing everyone, especially your daughters, the best in all their softball pursuits.
This is awesome and said with total class.

Len
 
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Roger, since you know my dd is a very fast slapper. We have attended more than our share of college , NFCA, and Queen of Diamond camps. All have used the same 20 yard dash. So no one gets a break if you are a lefty or not. NFCA camps no longer use a stop watch. So you are measuring pure speed, with no advantage of how you start. When she gets to be timed like Len posted and Mike Candrea stated it goes down to a 2.84. This was the second fastest time in the Queen of Diamonds in 2009. I have only seen one kid in Ohio break 2.80 and that was a 2.76. We have watched Lowe, Watley, and Berg play they are very fast. I forget her name but the girl from GA, is the fastest slapper to play the game beating Watley's 2.65 time. You can look at all the NFCA camps across the nation and few break 3.0. Back or overhand throwing speed. Coach Larabee has a short stop at University of Ark . that hits 72. Now that is bringing it.
 
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Need opinions on this one. Is it faster for an infielder to catch a groundball and throw from their ear, in other words, quick release as a catcher might do, or to take time to reach back a little farther and and get more on their throw? I have always wondered what the difference in times on a stopwatch would be. I understand all the different variables involved, arm strenth probably being the most influencial defference. The test would have to be done with the same girl fielding several different ground balls to get a true reading, ( I think). Does anyone know, or ever experimented with this? I always here coaches talk about a quick release but often wondered if that was truly quicker than reaching back and getting more on it. Having great arm strength and quick release would be ideal, but not everyone can do that.
 
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I have worked with many girls regarding proper throwing mechanics over the past ten years. It is best to work with them at an early age. It is difficult to change their technique after they have been throwing for several years, but it can be done.
I have worked with my daughter for 12 years. We start each year doing the band and stretching her arm. After two weeks or so we then start tossing a softball and basketball throwing at 50 %. I make sure she is doing everything correctly when she starts throwing harder by taping her. Maybe it is just my daughter, but it seems like every year she wants to develop bad habits. As the season goes on, I still watch her closely. Again, it might be my daughter, but half way through every year she seems to want to change little things with her mechanics. When working with an older girl, I think the best way to change bad mechanics is to tape her. Frame by frame review her motion with her. After you have carefully reviewed her video show her a video of a girl throwing the ball correctly. (showing her a girl rather than a boy seemed to work better) Work on one change at a time. If you are going to change anything now is the time to start. In my opionion, throwing a softball is the same as throwing a baseball. I learned most of what I know from a baseball coach named Tom Held. He is an excellent teacher. The above is primarily from Coach Held. By the way, we usually start at the end of December.
 
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I have worked with many girls regarding proper throwing mechanics over the past ten years. It is best to work with them at an early age. It is difficult to change their technique after they have been throwing for several years, but it can be done.
I have worked with my daughter for 12 years. We start each year doing the band and stretching her arm. After two weeks or so we then start tossing a softball and basketball throwing at 50 %. I make sure she is doing everything correctly when she starts throwing harder by taping her. Maybe it is just my daughter, but it seems like every year she wants to develop bad habits. As the season goes on, I still watch her closely. Again, it might be my daughter, but half way through every year she seems to want to change little things with her mechanics. When working with an older girl, I think the best way to change bad mechanics is to tape her. Frame by frame review her motion with her. After you have carefully reviewed her video show her a video of a girl throwing the ball correctly. (showing her a girl rather than a boy seemed to work better) Work on one change at a time. If you are going to change anything now is the time to start. In my opionion, throwing a softball is the same as throwing a baseball. I learned most of what I know from a baseball coach named Tom Held. He is an excellent teacher. The above is primarily from Coach Held. By the way, we usually start at the end of December.
I know his DD throws in the mid 60's!! If you live in NW Ohio and can get a chance to work with him it may be a good opportunity for your DD!!
 
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Need opinions on this one. Is it faster for an infielder to catch a groundball and throw from their ear, in other words, quick release as a catcher might do, or to take time to reach back a little farther and and get more on their throw? I have always wondered what the difference in times on a stopwatch would be. I understand all the different variables involved, arm strenth probably being the most influencial defference. The test would have to be done with the same girl fielding several different ground balls to get a true reading, ( I think). Does anyone know, or ever experimented with this? I always here coaches talk about a quick release but often wondered if that was truly quicker than reaching back and getting more on it. Having great arm strength and quick release would be ideal, but not everyone can do that.

Fielding a ball from below the chest does not allow proper arm/shoulder loading to make a throw like a catcher. The angle needed to bring the ball up to just behind the ear is too steep. Hope this makes sense.

Len
 
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Hey Len, does your team or the teams your associated with do well with throwing? Just curious...
 
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Hey Len, does your team or the teams your associated with do well with throwing? Just curious...


It depends on the kid. We work on throwing constantly. Most of the kids throw much better after our help than before our help. Some kids however refuse to listen, do not do their homework, or have parents that think they know better. For the record, my dd, who listens to what we say and has done her homework, has very good mechanics and throws just fine.

Len
 
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if you said all was great I would have come to your practices... thanks. Many are in the same boat I'm sure.
 
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My daughter was clocked at 68 overhand yesterday at a camp. A little slower than she was back in the spring.
 
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My daughter was clocked at 68 overhand yesterday at a camp. A little slower than she was back in the spring.
Wow! She must have several D1 coaches knocking on her door. Very few girls on the planet throw that hard. Keep us updated on offers she has or may recieve.
 
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was at the Kentucky camp a couple weeks ago... 61 was the tops there. I happen to know the player too. Cool to see them all compete for the honors of top speed.
 
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was at the Kentucky camp a couple weeks ago... 61 was the tops there. I happen to know the player too. Cool to see them all compete for the honors of top speed.
You are incorrect. I specifically know 2 kids there that threw 65 and 62.
 

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