Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitching scholarships

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BenBudda,
As much as you disagree with the statement, it is true. As I mentioned earlier, does a SS get pulled in the middle of a inning if a couple balls gets by her, how about a catcher? Middle of the games, yes, but not in an inning. A pitcher needs to bring her stuff every single time. Not only does she need to hit the locations, she also needs to be aware of what is going on around her. Furthermore, can you name the position of who gets the wins/losses?

I can say that because my oldest is the girl who is that utility player, the one who usually rounds out the team. If a team needs 12, she may be #10, 11, or 12. However, but she doesn't mind it. She's a decent catcher, good outfielder. Her specialty is base running. We talked about this post last night, and she said it wasn't fair, but she also knows life isn't fair. She also was a pitcher, but quit after a year because it was too much work. She was a good pitcher too.

Back to the point, when you look at a schedule and you're coaching, do you ponder who's going to be the SS who is going against stud team, or you set the rotation so your stud pitcher faces them? So yes a pitcher can single handly win a game. Yes it helps to have a great defense that backs up the pitcher. But in order for that defense to play, that pitcher must put that ball in a location where the hitter can put the ball in play.

Concerning your #2, you kind have admitted that the pitcher can single handily win a game. If she struggles 3 or 4 games (yes I do agree it happens), more than likely, your entire rotation was completely messed up, you burn out the ace sooner, etc.

Just expressing MHO as not just a pitcher's dad, but a dad who's dd is that #11 girl who plays sparingly.

 

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Huh?

Boy I was really needing my coffee this morning, I meant to say:
To many lessons from different pitching instructors can be bad, Your DD's have to pick it up on their own or they are just going to be confused.

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Hopefully every player on a team is getting private instruction, hitting,catching, speed training, etc.

Agreed. A pitcher and parents CHOOSE to be pitchers and parents of pitchers. It is a reality and expensive.

 

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I'm not sure what teams you speak of that do this...but I assume the Hawks are one of them after reading there post, but Pitching and Catching scholarships offered to travel players is the biggest marketing load of crappola I have ever heard!!!!
When you start doing this it's not about player development but a simple ploy to get some of the best players to switch teams because they offer a discounted rate.

This is just simply not correct for the vast majority of the teams out there. Sure they want to attract the top talent and help offset the cost to get them but it is how the world works. If all the top teams and organizations offer these types of things (and they don't but many do) then it's a wash.

I am very critical of organizations and how much player development they are or are not into and I can say that I this is the second year that I've been with the Hawks and that ALL WE DO IS DEVELOP PLAYERS. The rest works itself out.

My daughter is not a pitcher in select and I don't mind a few of my dollars going towards that pitcher. If I didn't like it my full option is to go elsewhere.

 

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WM 83: Are you saying that the vast majority of travel teams offer these scholarships? Because that would be news to me and I try to stay up on the culture and practices of travel teams.

I guess we should be thankful that our three very fine pitchers haven't left us for the teams that offer the scholarships.

 

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Singleing out one or two players as more important or special then the others has no place in youth team sports. Adults should know better.

Like it or not it happens. In hockey/****** - Goalie, Football - QB, Baseball, Softball - Pitcher. Those are the cornerstone positions that can decide a game if they are off. I am talking at the competitive level - not youth rec. Take the top 5-10 travel ball teams out there at any age - they ALL have a well above average pitcher - without her they are not the same.

 

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One final question. If princess is pitching in a 0-0 game in the bottom of the 7th inning and the batter hammers a drive to deep LC field and the left fielder who made a great read on the ball and caught it on the dead run and crashes into the fence just as the ball was going out to save the game, should the parents, coach or organization consider giving her a slight refund because that was a great catch? Who knows, just making the point that these kind of senarios and questions will never end. Good luck with a silly idea IMHO.

Without 7 innings of strong pitching the position player never even gets a chance to make 1 great play - 1 play is not even a close comparison to 7 innings of shutout pitching that keeps a team in position to win. (again, if this is high level softball)

 

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WM 83: Are you saying that the vast majority of travel teams offer these scholarships? Because that would be news to me and I try to stay up on the culture and practices of travel teams.

I guess we should be thankful that our three very fine pitchers haven't left us for the teams that offer the scholarships.

I'll back off that statement a bit and say that there are quite a few that do. I see them advertised on tryouts and in speaking with other coaches and parents. I shouldn't have made it such a wide-sweeping statement.

How about "It's not un-common". That's probably more accurate.

And I'm not saying I'm all for it, just that it doesn't bother me and I don't mind that my team/organization puts it into practice.

I personally don't think that a pitcher or another player should pick a team based on that scholarship, but if you are attracted to that team/organization anyways, it's a nice bonus. I say "should" but we know that some do. And again personally I wouldn't put my daughter on a team with that as my major, or even minor, reason.

 

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I'll put Doug's statements in a different perspective...

If your (competitive level) second baseman, right fielder, 4-hole hitter, utility player, lead-off slapper etc. as individuals are having a "bad day", all is not lost.

However, if your (competitive level) #1 pitcher is having a "bad day", make no mistake - EVERYONE is gonna suffer, including ALL of the above!

 

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The above statement sums up the real problem here in my opinion. I 100% disagree that a pitcher can "single handedly win games". If that were really the case then you could have a roster that consisted of only two players, a pitcher and a catcher. If every out was a K then maybe the statement is true.
Of course that is taking the statement literally and that may be unfair but that isn't the real point I'm trying to make. The real point is the destincttion thats being made between one player and another. Softball is a TEAM sport and the roster is typically made up of somewhere between 10 and 15 players. To single any one player out over another is never a good thing. Let me throw out a few situations just to point out what I think is flawed with this singling out of players:

1) What if every player on the team wanted to take pitching lessons? Would they all be eligable for the discount? Or would some be told to just keep working until they get good enough to warrant the reduced players fees. At the 10u - 12u age groups nobody really knows who the best pitchers are. Kids change in a new york minute.

2) Lets see what happens when the pitcher who got the reduced players fees blows 3 or 4 games in a row because shes having a bad weekend (trust me it happens) are the other players entitled to a little refund as well because princess didn't live up to the hype? Just a question, and you know that non pitching parents will be discussiing this amongst themselves.

These are just a few things that could happen to one degree or another. IMHO the statement above completely ignores the contributions of fielders who work all year long to improve their skills by attending special camps or driving to instructors. Great fielders make great pitchers, just like great offenses make average pitchers seem OK. In todays world of competitive softball a top line pitcher may strike out 5 - 10 batters (thats actually being generous if its vs. good competition) and that leaves anywhere from 11 to 16 outs for the other less important TEAMmates to make. I reject the fact that any pitcher can "single handedly win games". This sends the wrong message for a team sport. If its all about one player only then stick to golf or tennis.

I'm not saying that pitching is not a huge part of this game, or for that matter the most important. Everyone knows that. Singleing out one or two players as more important or special then the others has no place in youth team sports. Adults should know better.

Pitchers parents pay for lessons because thats what they choose to do to try and give their daughter the best opportunity to have success. Not every pitcher does and often times some very good ones just lose interest. Parents make this choice on their own, they do not deserve special treatment because they do so. The rewards are there for the player if she is worthy. Money should never be the consideration. Would one of these families not get lessons if it was not for this refund. I think not. The real reason this program exisits is to attract good pitchers away from other teams who do not offer such a discount. Just calling it what it is.

One final question. If princess is pitching in a 0-0 game in the bottom of the 7th inning and the batter hammers a drive to deep LC field and the left fielder who made a great read on the ball and caught it on the dead run and crashes into the fence just as the ball was going out to save the game, should the parents, coach or organization consider giving her a slight refund because that was a great catch? Who knows, just making the point that these kind of senarios and questions will never end. Good luck with a silly idea IMHO.

If a pitcher cannot single handedly win a game, then why do MOST colleges throw ONE pitcher almost an entire season??? I totally disagree about the 10U-12U pitchers. You can tell who is and who isn't ready to throw. And I will bet a lot of people on here know who some of the best 10 and 12 year olds are. They may not know their names but they know the team. It takes a special make-up to want the ball in the circle and feel the pressure of the game. I am NOT saying that the other girls don't feel pressure. But there is more of it in the circle.
If there are parents that have an issue with the "fee reduction" then it should be discussed with the coaches AWAY from other parents and the girls. There are a lot of teams out there to go to if you do not feel comfortable with that arrangement. You are right, there will be times that a pitcher will have a lousy couple of games. But what about the games where she shines and throws lights out? And I don't want to hear that is her job. We all know what her job is.
It seems everyone has this thought process that one or two players are being singled out. I really don't think this is the case. I believe that any organization who offers ANY player some type of fee reduction is doing so because they feel it is in the best interest of the player and organization. If you do not like it, that is fine. But to continue to bash any organization for doing it, IMHO, is childish. We are suppose to be adults on here. I could not imagine if most of the girls who actually play the game got on here and read some of this stuff might up and quit the game. Or at the least question their parent about a lot of it.
I thought this web site was to be filled with information to HELP the softball community. Not take potshots and tear down any player or organization for how they take care of their business. We should all, and I do include myself in this, carefully think about how we respond to questions or comments. Although no ill will may be intended, it could come off that way.
You can beat me up for this post all you want. Won't hurt me a bit. But I think how we reflect ourselves on here just might be the same way we represent ourselves out on the fields with our daughters. And I for one, hope to represent my daughters with class and dignity. No matter the outcome, you win with class and lose with class.
See you all on the fields!

 

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WM 83: Are you saying that the vast majority of travel teams offer these scholarships? Because that would be news to me and I try to stay up on the culture and practices of travel teams.

I guess we should be thankful that our three very fine pitchers haven't left us for the teams that offer the scholarships.

I have only heard of one team doing this....I must not get around enough?

 

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So why don't teams just come out and say that the team fees are, just as an example, Pitchers and catchers $400, all others $500?

So, now at your try-outs, you're going to have 50 pitchers and catchers and no body else. So now you are going to have to raise your team fee because you have 12 kids who are a pitcher or catcher and also fill-in the other positions as needed and you don't have enough money to meet expenses.

I just feel that it opens up Pandora's Box when you show favoritism or bias.

 

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Sammy:

I hear what you are saying, but it's not quite that black and white. A pitcher can't win a game if her offense doesn't produce runs and in high quality games, it's not unusual to lose 1-0 or 2-0. So a bad performance by a #4 hitter can mean the difference. I know I would go crazy if I revisited the one run losses from last season where we stranded runners on base in scoring position.

As you know, I was a pitcher's mom. I know the mental and physical stress that pitching entails. When she was pitching, she had to be totally focused on every pitch in the game. And she had to practice with her dad many hours a week. It takes a special young lady to do that. But she still couldn't win a game if the offense didn't score. It's built into the rules.

I'm also more concerned with team chemistry, which is not an insubstantial factor in travel ball. Giving incentives to a particular position has at least the potential to screw that up. In discussions among adults, we can agree that the pitcher and catcher are the two most important positions. But introduce that belief into the fee structure and other position players might say "what am I, chopped liver"?

And if we are talking about hard work and great amounts of time, why not waive the fee entirely for the parent head and assistant coaches? I don't think that would fly . . .

And lastly (with apologies to the horse), no one has addressed my point that pitchers receive so much more college attention and scholarships than other position players. I don't have a problem with that but I know that if any particular pitcher never played with a travel ball team that faced high level competition and that was comprised of really really good position players, she wouldn't in most cases have had nearly the looks received by the pitchers on such a travel team.

 

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Strohbo:

Some of us are actually interested in concluding whether scholarships are the proper approach for our organizations and a full discussion of this new development helps us reach those conclusions. I take umbrage to your characterization of my posts as bashing the Hawks. I've been very clear that I think this is a close question and that it appears the Hawks offer incentives to other positions. Your last post paints with a very broad brush and I don't appreciate that.

 

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Strohbo:

Some of us are actually interested in concluding whether scholarships are the proper approach for our organizations and a full discussion of this new development helps us reach those conclusions. I take umbrage to your characterization of my posts as bashing the Hawks. I've been very clear that I think this is a close question. Your last post paints with a very broad brush and I don't appreciate that.

Did I ONCE mention you or the Hawks? I do not believe I did. And from what I have ready of your posts CGS, I have not seen any bashing from you. Just questions and I have no problem with that. Asking questions instead of assuming makes us all smarter.

 

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Wow............ guess theres no sense in anyone but my pitchers showing up this weekend to play,.........I,ll just tell everyone else that the pitcher can handle it....... I guess theres a bright side though, look at all the time we,ll save on hitting and fielding practice

 

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Why does it seem like this thread has turned into a pitcher is the only one who can win a game? It takes an entire team to win or lose. Each player has a role to play. If fielder's can't catch and throw it will be a long day. If hitter's can't hit or get a timely bunt down, it will be a long day. Each position is important on the field. Can we just leave it at that??!!!

 

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Strohbo:

Some of us are actually interested in concluding whether scholarships are the proper approach for our organizations and a full discussion of this new development helps us reach those conclusions.

I'll step away from weather I have an issue with it or not and speak about the "whys" of it, from my perspective (and not the organization or team).

I think much of this comes from "If other (not all) teams on your layer do it, then you may consider it to stay competitive in the recruiting process.". Does this make it right? No, of course not. Does it make it wrong? No, of course not. It is very simply a fact and is how you say "Hey pitcher, consider us". It should be WHY a pitcher goes to a team but just a bit of icing.

Expand this to the team level. How to TEAMS attract players to them? Go ready the posts for tryouts and everyone is saying what they can do to benefit the players. Off season this and indoor that, external resources like well known instructors, and on and one. It is all part of "Hey YOU, take a look at us when you are considering trying out, is that you feel you want? If so then come on over."

On our team I'm going to work with our catchers. This means that the catchers won't have to spend "As much" money on external instructors. By the fact that I know that position and can instruct it (to some degree) I've reduced the outlay of those parents with kids as catcher. Is that a scholarship? No but it's the same thing except for it isn't advertised as part of the "Hey come check us out" part of recruiting.

What did I just say up there? Not sure really but I did a bunch of typing.

By the way.... I love talking about how and why teams/parents/players do things that they do. It's very interesting to hear other people's takes on all this.

 

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Why does it seem like this thread has turned into a pitcher is the only one who can win a game? It takes an entire team to win or lose. Each player has a role to play. If fielder's can't catch and throw it will be a long day. If hitter's can't hit or get a timely bunt down, it will be a long day. Each position is important on the field. Can we just leave it at that??!!!

No because the original post was about scholarships for pitchers so that gets focused on. Not every position is equal in the effect it has on the outcome of a game over a tournament and a season. It's just the way it is. Everybody and every aspect of the game is important but some are more critical than others. It was that way when I played baseball, when my son played (still does) and now my daughter.

 

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No because the original post was about scholarships for pitchers so that gets focused on. Not every position is equal in the effect it has on the outcome of a game over a tournament and a season. It's just the way it is. Everybody and every aspect of the game is important but some are more critical than others. It was that way when I played baseball, when my son played (still does) and now my daughter.

They played baseball in Leslie county Ky?............. ;&