playing time

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To answer your original question, pool play is a great opportunity for coaches to get everyone some playing time. I would say that 2-5 innings on a weekend is not nearly enough, unless you are OK with losing those players. It might be acceptable for them to get that much time at a preferred position, but they should be getting more innings than that in total, and certainly some extra at bats as well, which many tournaments allow with "extra hitters". Like it or not, those players and their families have made a huge time and financial commitment to play travel ball, and they are going to expect to play more than just a few innings over the course of a weekend.

 

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I never really got the whole kids sitting deal in travel ball. If you pick a team then I hope you think that kid is good enough to play. I know some coaches pick an 11th and 12th player to offset the cost to the other players. Its kind of slimey. Now if your upfront with players before they sign I don't have a problem with it. Kids want to play and that's why so many coaches are not entirely honest with players they are trying to sign.

Its just an observation, I have not been in the situation but I have seen kids sit out in the sun for 14 hrs on a Saturday in the summer and get 2 ABs and a few innings in the field. Seems like a waste to me.

I agree Uber, It is kinda slimey to take an 11th or 12th player to offset the cost of other players. Travel is pay to play, not play to sit the bench. If your girls are not cutting it, cut them. Give them opportunity to play somewhere else. Just b/c they aren't a #1 for you does not mean they can't be for someone else.

We actually had Coaches bring in girls not on our roster one time to play in a game while girls on our roster sat the bench. I lost a lot of respect that day and will never look at the game the same. Fortunately, it made my daughter want to succeed even more.

 

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i have my own opinions on the difference between travel ball and rec ball but out of curiosity i would like to know how others feel about playing time for your number 1 verse your number 2's in travel softball

The best advise that I can give you regarding infielders playing time is this. I have always told our players that all through the winter and by the end of our first spring tournament of the season the positions are available. By that time we will set the following positions:

SS
2nd Base
3rd Base

These positions have a true No. 1 and they get about 90 - 95% of playing time at those positions unless they play themselves out of it. I would not say that these positions are any more important then the others but hey need to be the most consistent. Generally at 1st base we have a primary player but I have always felt that in travel ball the best possible situation at 1st base is to have your #1 and #2 catchers swap between 1st and catcher. Its not always possible but I have found that up thru 14U it generally works well.

We also do the same in the outfield with our CF position. That outfielder normally plays there 95% of the time because she will be the boss of the OF. The LF and RF positions will typically have 2 players at each spot who bring different strengths to the game and can equally play the spot very well.

Generally speaking keep the middle stable and allow them to grow together over the season. It will pay dividends at the end of the season when a simple miscommunication on the infield will more then likely end your tournament run.

Good luck

 

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I never really got the whole kids sitting deal in travel ball. If you as a coach pick a team then I hope you think that every kid is good enough to play. I know some coaches pick an 11th and 12th player to offset the cost to the other players. Its kind of slimey. Now if your upfront with players before they sign I don't have a problem with it. Kids want to play and that's why so many coaches are not entirely honest with players they are trying to sign.

Its just an observation, I have not been in the situation but I have seen kids sit out in the sun for 14 hrs on a Saturday in the summer and get 2 ABs and a few innings in the field. Seems like a waste to me.

There have been a number of times when if we didn't have a 12th or 13th player we would have been in trouble. Our practices have all the girls rotate through every position except pitcher and catcher of course so they can be inserted into a position that may not be their primary spot and still perform well. By the way Uber I understand the Michigan pic but how about one of Bonnie Tholl instead of Hutch? A lot easier on the eyes if you ask me. LOL!

 

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To answer your original question, pool play is a great opportunity for coaches to get everyone some playing time. I would say that 2-5 innings on a weekend is not nearly enough, unless you are OK with losing those players. It might be acceptable for them to get that much time at a preferred position, but they should be getting more innings than that in total, and certainly some extra at bats as well, which many tournaments allow with "extra hitters". Like it or not, those players and their families have made a huge time and financial commitment to play travel ball, and they are going to expect to play more than just a few innings over the course of a weekend.

i was speaking in terms of desired psition.which is usually infield.i was tthinking 2-5 innings for number 2's in the infield.they would definately receive more innings than that.i have never picked up a girl just for the money.we have 12 this year and all 12 are pretty solid.but all 12 are not the same as first 6 in infield we potentially have 2 or 3 others than can play there but we were very honest in the beginning.i was just curious as to what others do in these scenario's.as to infield being desired position i never got it i always loved playing cf.but i see alot of girls anymore who look at that as punishment no matter how much you try to explain that it is a position.

 

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The answer lies within the goals for the team/organization. Just what is your mission statement. Is it to take 10 and 12 year olds out and try to collect enough trophies to start your own salvage yard or is it to develop players?

If it is to collect trophies, then just get 9 players and play your hearts out.

Is it to develop players, then everyone should get roughly the same amount of time.

10U and 12U should be about developing talent and keeping them interested in advancing their career, if you want to call it a career. If you run your practice right, girls that just want to coast along will fall by the side. Travel ball is about everyone working hard in practice and twice as hard during the game. Success at this level should not be dictated by how many trophies you take home, but by how far the girl's skills advance.

JMHO, that and 25 cents still won't get you a cup of coffee.

 

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Nice post wv. Couldn't agree more. I also think there are a lot more managers and not enough Coaches.

 

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Thanks for clarification jasbo though I would still argue that a full pool game at their desired position should be possible if they're truly all good players.

 

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If you can't find a player 1/2 of the available innings in a weekend they shouldn't be on your roster. Those innings may be more on Sat. than Sun. and they may be outfield not SS but everyone who pays and comes to practice needs to get significant innings.

lelwell

 

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The answer lies within the goals for the team/organization. Just what is your mission statement. Is it to take 10 and 12 year olds out and try to collect enough trophies to start your own salvage yard or is it to develop players?

If it is to collect trophies, then just get 9 players and play your hearts out.

Is it to develop players, then everyone should get roughly the same amount of time.

10U and 12U should be about developing talent and keeping them interested in advancing their career, if you want to call it a career. If you run your practice right, girls that just want to coast along will fall by the side. Travel ball is about everyone working hard in practice and twice as hard during the game. Success at this level should not be dictated by how many trophies you take home, but by how far the girl's skills advance.

JMHO, that and 25 cents still won't get you a cup of coffee.

I agree with this, at that age level youll never get better by not playing. Once you have reached 16/18U your skills should be as such you can contribute to your team reguardless of position played, we show alot of different looks on defense , dependning on the pitcher that is in rotation and require each girl to be proficent in more than one position.
During elimination games the best 9 play, and that may vary from game to game, whos hot on offense on this game may not be the next, but at the younger ages i most heartedly agree let them all play at some point.

Tim

 

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From a coach's standpoint this is the proverbial "Can of Worms' question. I'll attempt to wade into this snakepit and throw out a few thoughts. The fact is that I have been a coach or maybe a manager as some might say for about 17 years. Yes it started with 7 and 8 year olds a while back and a has progressed to Summer Travel and High School ball.
What has never changed is that all the kids want to play all the time and all the parents want their kids to play all the time. Oh there's a few that will jump in and say that's what rec ball is for, but in truth, there are parents and players in Rec ball that don't think their kid should ever come out.
Whether you state your position at the beginning of the season or not, no parent thinks you're talking to them. Surely their child will be one of the players who will play the most.
At every level that I have been at, a coach IS ALSO a manager. At the beginning of any level it's easy to get everyone in and out of a game. Give everybody that fair opportunity. At the beginning and before many games are played, you really aren't sure what every player can do or develop in to. As the season progresses ALL the players and parents want their team to start winning and winning consistently. Well that doesn't happen without a few feelings getting hurt and a player or two getting a little more bench time. And for those of you who are so readily willing to sacrifce pool games, I suggest your coaching experience is minimal at best. Pool games can set the tone for the weekend and have EVERYTHING to do with seating for bracket play and how many games you may have to play on Sunday.
The parents of the so called "Stars" will move their child to better teams or organizations to further their child's opportunities so this can paint a coach into a corner. Play the best and win, let a few lesser players leave, or lose the better players due to lack of ultimate success. Even on the best teams, there are the 8 through 11 or 12 spots. Those players will leave so they can find an opportunity to be a 1 through 7 player on another team. Some of the 1 through 7 players will leave to a better team or organization to find out that that team or organization is either no different, or now that 1 through 7 player is actually an 8 -12 player at that level. It's just the way it is and always will be. The debate will go on and on and on.

 

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Personally, as a parent, I don't care if the coach plays the whole team out of position and makes sure everyone gets their playing time on Saturdays. As long as the best 9 are playing on Sundays that's all I care about. Winning on Saturday is nice, but winning on Sundays is necessary.

 

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I like giving coaches the option of playing all the girls and free substitution. This gives the opportunity to the COACH to do what he wants with his line-up, gives a girl a chance to bat or play defense and just generally have fun.

I like full games. I just do and no argueing and/or bad feelings about a clock determining the outcome of a game that the girls played so hard in to win.

I was tired of it as an umpire... and as a state director.. I have been given the opportunity to change it. So be it.

 

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It can be said that if a coach selected the number 10, 11 & 12 player to be on their team but can't develop them to the point where they can give them decent playing time then maybe their coaching abilities ain't what they should be or what they think they are. Maybe they are just managers and not a coach. Those 10, 11 & 12 type players should feel free to book in mid season and find a coach who will develop them and a team that can give them playing time. Game time playing is a must to develop. JMHO

 

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If you can't find a player 1/2 of the available innings in a weekend they shouldn't be on your roster. Those innings may be more on Sat. than Sun. and they may be outfield not SS but everyone who pays and comes to practice needs to get significant innings.

lelwell

I couldn't agree more. My philosophy with a 12 player roster is everyone starts with an equal 75% playing time, with an opportunity to play where they want.

From that point, since everyone is not the same, some players will earn increased time at the expense of other players but your 12th player should be playing at least 50% of the innings, not games. Playing defense for a half inning is not a game played to me. And it is stated clearly that you will eventually play where the team needs you the most.

In addition, as mustohiofastpitch alluded to, we always felt it was just as much our responsibility as coaches as it was the individual player's responsibility to make sure the 12th player could bring some skill(s) to the game 50% of the time to help us win.

 

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Just out of curiosity, I went back and looked at the stats for the last 3 travel teams my daughter played on ... all in the same organization at a competitive 16-U/18-U level, but 3 different managers. Every girl on those teams played in at least half of the innings their teams played in and the difference in plate appearances was even closer thanks largely to "EH's" played in some tournaments' pool games. Did the teams lose any pool games because of those managers' playing time philosophies, I have no doubt ... but I would be hard pressed to blame any losses on Sunday due to that.

 

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You start a game with your best but I definitely try to get all the players as much time as possible. You should always prepare to have every player ready to step in at any time. The goal is to make all 11 or 12 of your players as equal as possible. I know that it may not be possible but it should be a goal that all coaches try to attain.

 

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As far as fielders go, I start my tournaments with my #1's and will work my #2's in if there is a blow out or I know I have a game pretty much wrapped up. I try to get them in when ever I can but let's face it, the goal of any travel team is to win every tournament you're entered in. I make sure at the beginning of every season I tell the players and their parents that my best 9 or 10 will always start in tournaments.

So unless your team is that good that you consistently blow out or wrap up games, you will have a few girls mostly on the bench watching with their parents subsidizing the team?? Any parent that puts up with that is a smuck. JMHO

 

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So unless your team is that good that you consistently blow out or wrap up games, you will have a few girls mostly on the bench watching with their parents subsidizing the team?? Any parent that puts up with that is a smuck. JMHO

Musty,
I believe it's "schmuck".:lmao:

 

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I know there are a handful of teams where it would be beneficial to a player to join that team as a developmental player like The Slammers etc. But if you took your DD to a local travel organizations tryout and they approached you and said" we would like your DD to join our team. We view her as our 12th player and her innings will be limited. Cost to play is 600 dollars and we will play 8 tournaments in the summer including nationals with 3 out of town trips."

What do you think the overwhelming response would be? Most kids would pass leaving the team 1 or 2 players short. So coaches leave that part or give some generic talk to the whole team about earning playing time.

So I am saying if your picking up a few players at tryouts who you think are not going to play much, be up front, honest and talk directly to the players and their parents. If they accept your terms and commit to the team then you won't have playing time issues lol