Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Proper pitching mechanics?

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With all this talk of mechanics, I also want to point out how important it is that a pitching coach get the most out of you DD. it can totally change a girl!

 

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"Tipping your pitch" happens long before the arm even begins to finish. Tipping comes much earlier; where the pitcher sets up on the rubber, amount of backward arm swing, direction of stride, intensity of leg drive, change in voice tone (for the grunters) - and many more. All the little things a pitcher does up to the delivery point can definitely give away a pitcher's tendencies. However, the finish of the hand/arm isn't evident until the ball has reached a point in it's flight where the batter must make a "to swing or not to swing" decision.

This is where style comes into play. Things like hiding the grip and making every pitch appear identical to the batter. It may be a great theory, but IMO, if girls could base a decision to swing on arm finish, you would see a dramatic increase in BA against the top women pitchers in the world. I think the practice time could be better spent disguising everything up to and including the release.

 

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WHAT THE H*LL????????????????????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHTr5RKGirI

Finish across the body?? Follow the ball to the target? The video doesn't lie. Regardless - I think Bill has some very good teaching points. This follows my statement about "thinking" you are doing a certain motion and doing another...

Reality is that there are infinite ways to teach pitching, and you have to decide what works for your DD. You have to find someone who connects with your DD; someone she understands and trusts. Male or female makes no difference whatsoever, it's what they teach. Improvement is the measureable element that should be used - is your DD getting better in her craft? If you can say yes to that question, then you have found a great fit for your DD.

Here is video of Adam Folkard, another world renowned men's pitcher. He definitely does not finish across the body, and it really doesn't seem to give the batter an advantage by him using different finishes. 80+ mph is just insane - even from 46 feet! I have utmost respect for these guys and the dedication it takes to reach this level of the men's game. But is is definitely worlds apart from women's mechanics - which are explicitly defined in the women's pitching rules. Yes, some of the mechanics of the motion are very similar, but there is a lot that is not. Power is generated entirely differently from how a woman must pitch. Maybe if women were allowed unlimited leaping that would change??

[video=youtube_share;uHa9BqGnBy8]http://youtu.be/uHa9BqGnBy8[/video]

 

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forum,
With all that has been written within these posts, what are the absolutes that a pitching coach should coach...
Ron Poole

 

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Ron - I'm not sure there will ever be a consensus on that topic, because there are as many opinions as there are pitching coaches. But I did find a discussion on another board to get things rolling...

Absolute vs Nice to Have?

 

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SAMMY; That video really shows MENS style pitching - heck he is starting at 45' and finishing at around 25' after his hop
I wouldn't want girls pitching like this...

Altho... It sure would help even it out against those new hot bats

 

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Now this is mens style pitching - heck he is starting at 45' and finishing at around 25' after his hop
I wouldn't want girls pitching like this...

Altho... It sure would help even it out against those new hot bats

He doesn't teach the girls to pitch that way. There is a reason he is sought after nationally and internationally and not just in his local area.

 

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forum,
With all that has been written within these posts, what are the absolutes that a pitching coach should coach...
Ron Poole

Wow, to answer this would take a book but without going into miles of specifics there are certain positions through the motion I look for. How does the pitcher attack at the circle start, does she sync the ball and the knee on the way up on the front side, how open at the the top does she get, where is the ball/arm/elbow pointing at the top, how is her timing/position when she gets to toe touch and further down at heel plant, is she pushing or pulling the ball down, is she leading with the elbow, what angle is her front foot landing, what is the whip like at the bottom, on and on. Posture and balance issues are huge. All the proper mechanics contribute to success. I believe a reasonably athletic girl can be taught to throw around 50 mph by the time they are 12 -13 just by using good mechanics. Beyond that a lot has to do with their own ability and athleticism. For example I have a girl I have worked with since September that started at 37-38 and just hit 49. She is a 7th grader. She is pretty amazing, she works hard and keeps improving.

 

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He doesn't teach the girls to pitch that way. There is a reason he is sought after nationally and internationally and not just in his local area.

Agreed - no doubt in my mind that he teaches legal women's fastpitch mechanics. I'm sure he knows the women's pitching rules better than anyone on this forum (except our Bretman ). There are a lot of solid foundations in his teaching, but I simply disagree with a few, which I am not going to go into here. I absolutely agree with him on change of speeds, which he is a huge proponent of. Like I said before, parents and the pitcher must decide who is the best fit, and measure success by evaluating the gains made through the coaches guidance and teaching.

 

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Just curious I have been told that Hillhouse does not teach a screwball or curveball? Is this true?

 

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Not true. He doesn't teach a "flat" curve or screw. He teaches to make your drop and rise also move in or out.

 

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Can anyone name some Hillhouse girls pitching at the college level and who they play for?.....I'm just curious. Thanks

 

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No, but I can tell you that the GA Bulldogs hired him as their pitching coach consultant last year.

 

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Actually, the pitch being thrown should not be tipped off by the finish. That is Hillhouse's main point. That is why all of his pitches finish where they do. Up or near the opposite shoulder. Coaches and hitters are becoming much better students of the game. They are picking up small little signals pitchers and hitters give them to use against them. Tendancies by a pitcher is not a good thing.

With all due respect, by the time you see the finish of an average high school pitcher delivering a pitch you will not have time to use that to any advantage. A 50+ mph fastball is crossing the plate in less than .50 second. If you as a batter are following the follow thru with your eyes, you have taken a considerable amount of time away from following the inbounds path of the ball. The only way to get an advantage in 14u or higher grade competition would be to observe something in the wind up or the actual windmill motion.

What do most good hitting instructors tell girls to do? Watch for the release of the ball and track it coming at you at the release point by the hip. No hitting instructor of any age has ever told a batter to track the follow thru to watch and see what kind of pitch the girl is throwing. Not while I was around.

 

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I agree with daboss. If the batter is watching the pitcher's follow through after the pitch, then they aren't going to have time to hit the ball.

 

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Depends on how good the hitter is IMHO.

 

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Can anyone name some Hillhouse girls pitching at the college level and who they play for?.....I'm just curious. Thanks

Still waiting on some names and colleges.........

 

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Fpitchdad ... I have seen you bash Hillhouse pretty good on OFC in the past, and I suppose that's where this thread is turning now. As Sammy mentioned, a lot of what makes a good coach is someone who connects well with their students. My daughter had essentially 2 pitching coaches through her career, and learned a lot from each of them, but she really connected best with Bill. What you're asking is a legitimate question, and I truthfully don't know the answer. I do know that my daughter and I both felt that he was really helpful to her, and she went on to have a very successful D3 pitching career ... but I also know that I'm not going to offer her or a few other girls I know personally on here so you or others can bash them as well. I'm sure there are more notable examples ... let's see if some names surface.

 

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coach, not going to bash any girl, it was just a question. Congrats on your DD having a very successful college career.