Hitting and Hitters Discussion Reverse Hand Swing

[BouldersDad]

Alot has been said about the elvis both good and bad. The matrix that we have used for years creates the same controversy. But this

http://youtu.be/Q9-UGzD4qQg

Has led to this

http://youtu.be/T7A55TiANn4

Again do not confuse a drill swing with a game swing

 

[Westler33]

Boy that's a pretty thing right there. Hope My dd ends up with a swing like that.

 

[Hitter]

Alot has been said about the elvis both good and bad. The matrix that we have used for years creates the same controversy. But this

http://youtu.be/Q9-UGzD4qQg

Has led to this

http://youtu.be/T7A55TiANn4

Again do not confuse a drill swing with a game swing

Tim it has been a long journey from hitting tires, basketballs and using the bat axe!

Remember this does not work no matter who you are who the hitter is and a paid education or batting average.

Data talks and BS walks and the JD kool aide tastes great!

Not posting any videos of your students or offering any drills you yourself do or recommend is a little skeptical in my opinion.
Sounds like a few people from the "other sites" is spilling over to here. I give those people more credibility.

Tell the Big girl I said hello.

 

[BouldersDad]

Agreed. I have no qualm or issues posting anything. Vid or pic. Not afraid of what you and others have taught Britt and my self over the years. To me its all about results. What gives my hitters the best bang for the buck.

The biggest thing I have learned over the last 4 years of college ball is that if your hitters are in the public eye. And once they become known on the internet their swings are constantly probed, examined, dissected,torn apart and then ridiculed normally by people that have as much experience as 12U coaches ( Pretty much the entire crew on that other forum ). But when the hitters are successful those same posters are no where to be found, ignore you like the plague, or use the old standard.... short fence hot bats anyone can hit home runs...

At one time I would fight people like that at the drop of a hat. Or get upset and let it ruin my day while at the park some hitting guru would walk up to me and say hey your kids hits a ton but...... ah hell here we go again , and then go into a 10 minute dissertation on what he thought she could do to improve.

So after 4 years I get it, You just let people babble, dont feed into it, and set and smile as your kid joggs the bases one more time.

 

[Strohbro]

After reading this entire thread for the first time, I have come up with a conclusion or two. AG has yet to show anything about his/her credentials. Nothing about what he/she has done and/or posted video of his/her DD. AG likes to run his/her mouth way too much for most of the people on OFC. AG has yet to respond to Lester not only on this thread but another one as well. This leads me to believe that AG has no credentials and just likes to stir the pot.
Both of my DDs have hit with Howard when they were younger and as they got older have hit with Tim. My youngest still hits with Tim and Brit. Loves working with both of them. The oldest is off to college and done with her playing career. In fact, the more Brit makes the little one mad, the better she hits. Go figure!

 

[ApogeeDemon]

I agree, showing videos of DD or instruction does not guarantee one knows what they are doing. Same can be said with NFCA membership, ACE testing and other Professional development one may have.

However; in the example SL posted and other SW instructors over the years that I have seen you need to look at the results and I would say the ladies that have been involved with this type of instruction have fared pretty well . The instructors that have some credentials or training at least shows they have invested some time and training to the game.


It is easy to bash what others are trying to do to help the ladies.
It takes guts to post instruction because one is now open to criticism however; when done properly "that is ok" when there is a constructive sharing of ideas and strategies that have worked between students everyone wins.

I always look for a variety of drills and instruction to keep it fresh while finding ways to deliver instruction to a wide range of ladies. After reviewing your post I do not see any examples of work you have done. Most of your post are just sarcastic with little substance. Do you have a my coach book account? Mine is (coachdennis) you can go there for softball school info including: videos, power points and lesson plans or you can "google" colerain fastpitch and go to handouts for some info you can share with your team. Are you on linked in or any other PD site to help you share you knowledge with others? One thing I will mention about most of the users on this site they are transparent....

I tried looking up Colerain on youtube so I could learn so much by watching your great hitters. But all I found was a .500 team Turpin mowing down your hitters and Colerain only scoring one run.. Do you have any better videos I can learn from? Thanks in advance!

[video=youtube;VMmLE0tIHw8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMmLE0tIHw8[/video]

 

[ificanbelikeu]

"I tried looking up Colerain on youtube so I could learn so much by watching your great hitters. But all I found was........."

AD - I tried looking up your videos ANYWHERE but guess how many I found.........

 

[ApogeeDemon]

"I tried looking up Colerain on youtube so I could learn so much by watching your great hitters. But all I found was........."

AD - I tried looking up your videos ANYWHERE but guess how many I found.........

Why do I have to show you video because I don't agree with the Elvis move? That makes no sense. If you are using the matrix drill with the Elvis move, isn't that creating muscle memory? I simply don't believe that hitters should have their hips so far in front of their hands. Use the Hanson principle. Just look at how hitters hit, not what they say they are doing. Someone mentioned another website discuss fastpitch or something. I looked on their for hitting discussions from these posters here. I was told they were basically run off the web site. That Howard refuses to post there anymore and that Crystl asked for her videos to be removed from the site. That's all I could find when I was looking. Why did they run off? This entire thread started from an insult made by SL. I just posted what I thought about the video. Then I was attacked. Then the pack mentality took over and all of you started yelling from the peanut gallery. I love the fact that we are all trying to make young girls better. But I will never baaaaaaaa like many of the sheep here. I stand by my beliefs.

 

[CARDS]

http://www.gmcsports.com/confstandings.aspx?satc=35&year=2012&div=1

I tried looking up Colerain on youtube so I could learn so much by watching your great hitters. But all I found was a .500 team Turpin mowing down your hitters and Colerain only scoring one run.. Do you have any better videos I can learn from? Thanks in advance!

AD there are some better games on Waycross media, i-high sports or we are colerain.com if games are what you are looking for.

The Mason game on waycross media was a better snap shop of that 2013 team. http://www.icrctv.net/video/girls-softball-colerain-vs-mason
If training aids or player info is what you are looking for, like I told you in an earlier post..Go to my coachbook (coachdennis / Cincy Static) or the Colerain Fastpitch website on league line up handouts tab.

As far as your choice in video posting... this Turpin team had some talent and Turpin has a good program. BTW, both teams combined for around 8 players go on to play college ball from D1 to NAIA from that 2013 class.

Here are the GMC numbers on that 2013 team...just click on the link to see the 2013 CARDS numbers . #7,#11#13 and #14 were the four that practiced the hitting style in question.
They ended up with 112 RBI, 37 extra base hits and 13HR and as a team the Lady CARDS lead the GMC in runs scored with 186....These numbers do not count pre season or OHSAA Senior D1 all star games. Heck, they even did not get to make up a league game that would have been a stat padder.


http://www.gmcsports.com/confstandings.aspx?satc=35&year=2012&div=1

That 2013 season had some ups and downs (heck its HS ball) but finishing with 20W-10L and another deep D1 OHSAA playoff run is a good representation IMO and, not bad for a team with only a couple ladies that played travel ball.
Coach Billstrom her first two years at Colerain 12/13 back to back deep playoff runs. So, as you see "what they did" you now know they were pretty darn good...
http://brackets.myohsaa.org/bracket.aspx?t=4077&ts=9225?=11
http://brackets.myohsaa.org/regionalbracket.aspx?t=3925&ts=8955?=4
http://brackets.myohsaa.org/regionalbracket.aspx?t=3938&ts=8968?=4

BTW, maybe in your neck of the woods you have issues with HS coaches keeping stats but, I can assure you the HS coaches in the GMC do it right when it comes to stats. Same as the GWOC and the GGCL that we play OOC.

Now the CMAC and some other small programs in SW ohio I agree, will struggle with stats. However, for you to make a blanket statement that all HS coaches pad stats shows you need to do a little more homework since the majority of HS stats are more accurate than any travel program.

Now that you understand the team you posted about is not too bad how about you informing the masses the stats etc. of your HS team...Oh wait, I forgot your team is the 10U world beaters...

 

[cz fastpitch fan]

Wow...I know the feeling of knowing that everybody here is against you. Have been in that situation. It's simply your day in the barrel, Apogee.
Straightleg, Howard & Tim are (arguably) the best hitting instructors in the viewing area. We should all be very thankful that guys like this are willing to share their wisdom with the rest of us. Fact us...none of us invented this stuff. Sure, we all look for different things and maybe we can them differently, but this game has been around for years before any of us, and when we are dead and gone there will be a new crop of coaches on here debating the rotational versus linear motion, the Elvis move (firing the hips) versus attempting to fire the hips and hands at the same time. A wise man once said, "If you got the stats...show them. It ain't bragging 'cause it's history. If you don't have 'em, shut up."
I firmly believe Straightleg knows what he is doing and every girl he works with ought to be privileged to receive his help. The same can be said for Howard and Tim Duncan. I would be honored to have any of these spend time with my own DD or any of my players for that matter. So why don't we do this? Why don't we sh*tcan this thread & move on to something positive, because as long as those guys are around the game, the state of Ohio is continuing to send kids off to college. As for you Sir....if you are currently helping girls improve their hitting and if they are successful at it, then my hat comes off and I bow to you as well.
'nuff said.
CZ

 

[ApogeeDemon]

Wow...I know the feeling of knowing that everybody here is against you. Have been in that situation. It's simply your day in the barrel, Apogee.
Straightleg, Howard & Tim are (arguably) the best hitting instructors in the viewing area. We should all be very thankful that guys like this are willing to share their wisdom with the rest of us. Fact us...none of us invented this stuff. Sure, we all look for different things and maybe we can them differently, but this game has been around for years before any of us, and when we are dead and gone there will be a new crop of coaches on here debating the rotational versus linear motion, the Elvis move (firing the hips) versus attempting to fire the hips and hands at the same time. A wise man once said, "If you got the stats...show them. It ain't bragging 'cause it's history. If you don't have 'em, shut up."
I firmly believe Straightleg knows what he is doing and every girl he works with ought to be privileged to receive his help. The same can be said for Howard and Tim Duncan. I would be honored to have any of these spend time with my own DD or any of my players for that matter. So why don't we do this? Why don't we sh*tcan this thread & move on to something positive, because as long as those guys are around the game, the state of Ohio is continuing to send kids off to college. As for you Sir....if you are currently helping girls improve their hitting and if they are successful at it, then my hat comes off and I bow to you as well.
'nuff said.
CZ

well said. Here is the problem. If you don't agree with them, they try to attack. I guess they basically got kicked out of discussfastpitch.com for the same reason. Its the god complex. When people that aren't real sure ask questions, they think these guys are gods. When they get their butts kissed over years, these guys think their poo doesn't stink anymore. They talk about stats. What stats? You are always going to have girls that do well and those that don't. The smoke and mirror trick is to only talk about the 2-3 that have made it. I think their egos have gotten too large, that's why they attack. I honestly think its great that Howard and SL spend time trying to make kids better. But look at their remarks. Howard, this man they all worship here has called be Space Boy, Jerry Springer etc. because I don't agree with some of his hitting antics. What does that say about his character? I remember seeing the Bustos Ultimates organization down here in the Cincy area try and implement some of his techniques and they were some of the worst hitters I've ever seen. Looked like machines at bat. Now Howard will say its their fault of course. His mo is "you can lead a horse to water bla bla bla" blame the kids, that way you don't have to accept that not everything he does works. For everything video they post, I can find a counter video. I know I don't know it all, I can say that, can they say that and then accept that people might not agree with them? No baaaaaa baaaaaaa from me!

 

[cz fastpitch fan]

The best thing about this site is...if you have an open mind and truly believe that you don't know everything, then you truly might learn something. Here's what I have learned...as a coach it is my responsibility to stay ahead of my kids. They are getting better. Some say it's the coaching, but I say it's primarily their effort and desire to get better. I simply help them understand what they can accomplish. Last time I checked, it wasn't me standing in the batter's box staring down that ace pitcher from the other team in the eyes. It's a 13 year old girl doing it! And as they continue to progress, so must I or they will lose confidence in me as their coach. So, I come here with an open mind and a willingness to learn. Rule, #1, I leave my ego in the main forum. Hopefully I learn something and maybe, just maybe there's somebody out there with a little less experience than I have that I can help in return. Because we all OWE! We OWE!!
Key is the open mind and the comfort in knowing that it's OK to say you don't know everything. I mean really....would I be doing what I do now if I did know everything or would I be coaching Team Planet (better than Team USA...it's the team made of the best players in the entire world)

So my suggestion is to keep an open mind and also understand that people's beliefs in a particular swing style could be similar to their religious beliefs. Whether they be Christian, Islam, Hindu, or some Aborigine bush people who wake up in the morning and pray to god of the river that brings them life...people's beliefs are important to them. So, who are we to judge or ridicule?
Open mind.

 

[LADY_KNIGHTS]

I don't post on here as much as I once did and it took me till tonight to read this thread and decide to make a comment. As many of you may know I am the hitting coach at Tiffin University after 11 years as a HS coach and travel coach. I know Hitter and SL as well as Boulder very well and have valued their input on this forum throughout my many years on here...and I have no doubt whatsoever that I would not be coaching at the college level had it not been for that first 7 hour hitting lesson Howard gave my daughter about 8 years ago. No one I have seen understands the mechanics and a way of teaching it like Howard.

Like Boulder, SL as well as others we have taken Howards teachings...and as any good coach blended them with other things we liked along the way to come up with our philosophy on hitting. I still use many of the drills and gadgets Howard so graciously presented to me...and I feel lucky to pass it on!!! Thanks Howard!!!

This is my second year at Tiffin so it's still a little early to tell what impact I will have on this program...but here are a few stats that demon has been calling for. Please feel free to visit our website and crunch the numbers...and in most every case the players I worked with made substantial gains in power and production numbers.

Accomplishments:
We finished the 2014 season with a .295 team batting average. Had an increase in homerun production of 66% and a 10% increase in doubles, as well as a 10% reduction in strikeouts. Had 7 players that batted over .300, including 2nd Team All-Conference player Kristin Prokopakis (.330 BA, 21 RS, 15 SB), and Honorable Mention All_Conference to Jena King (.379 BA, 24 RS, 47 H, .540 SLG%, .430 OB%) and Madison Yanek (.339 BA, 5 HR, 28 RBI, .532 SLG%, .410 OB%).

Forgot to mention...love the hand over drill!!! Have used it twice this week in practice to get the girls to understand pushing through contact and finishing high with the swing.

Shayne Yeater
Assistant Coach Tiffin University
President Buckeye Heat Fastpitch

 

[ApogeeDemon]

I don't post on here as much as I once did and it took me till tonight to read this thread and decide to make a comment. As many of you may know I am the hitting coach at Tiffin University after 11 years as a HS coach and travel coach. I know Hitter and SL as well as Boulder very well and have valued their input on this forum throughout my many years on here...and I have no doubt whatsoever that I would not be coaching at the college level had it not been for that first 7 hour hitting lesson Howard gave my daughter about 8 years ago. No one I have seen understands the mechanics and a way of teaching it like Howard.

Like Boulder, SL as well as others we have taken Howards teachings...and as any good coach blended them with other things we liked along the way to come up with our philosophy on hitting. I still use many of the drills and gadgets Howard so graciously presented to me...and I feel lucky to pass it on!!! Thanks Howard!!!

This is my second year at Tiffin so it's still a little early to tell what impact I will have on this program...but here are a few stats that demon has been calling for. Please feel free to visit our website and crunch the numbers...and in most every case the players I worked with made substantial gains in power and production numbers.

Accomplishments:
We finished the 2014 season with a .295 team batting average. Had an increase in homerun production of 66% and a 10% increase in doubles, as well as a 10% reduction in strikeouts. Had 7 players that batted over .300, including 2nd Team All-Conference player Kristin Prokopakis (.330 BA, 21 RS, 15 SB), and Honorable Mention All_Conference to Jena King (.379 BA, 24 RS, 47 H, .540 SLG%, .430 OB%) and Madison Yanek (.339 BA, 5 HR, 28 RBI, .532 SLG%, .410 OB%).

Forgot to mention...love the hand over drill!!! Have used it twice this week in practice to get the girls to understand pushing through contact and finishing high with the swing.

Shayne Yeater
Assistant Coach Tiffin University
President Buckeye Heat Fastpitch

So logic would suggest that those players could already hit. Having them for one season would not produce enough quantifiable evidence to prove anything. In addition, doing one or two drills the same also would not prove that it is working vs any of the other drills. I don't have a lot time but I tried to crunch a few numbers.
Prokopakis hit .439 in 2012-2013 and .377 in 2013-2014 (conference stats) So she declined.
C. Brown was on the top hitters list in 2012-2013 .423 BA...Didn't see her on the list in 2013-2014 So she might have gotten worse (conference)
P. Denman .333 BA 2012-2013 Made top hitters list in 2012-2013 didn't see her on the list in 2013-2014 So she might have gotten worse (conference)
Yanek and King are doing well.
I didn't look for long but a case could be made that some hitters got better while others got worse. I'll look at the stats more closely later.

 

[shummel]

So logic would suggest that those players could already hit. Having them for one season would not produce enough quantifiable evidence to prove anything. In addition, doing one or two drills the same also would not prove that it is working vs any of the other drills. I don't have a lot time but I tried to crunch a few numbers.
Prokopakis hit .439 in 2012-2013 and .377 in 2013-2014 (conference stats) So she declined.
C. Brown was on the top hitters list in 2012-2013 .423 BA...Didn't see her on the list in 2013-2014 So she might have gotten worse (conference)
P. Denman .333 BA 2012-2013 Made top hitters list in 2012-2013 didn't see her on the list in 2013-2014 So she might have gotten worse (conference)
Yanek and King are doing well.
I didn't look for long but a case could be made that some hitters got better while others got worse. I'll look at the stats more closely later.

So by your logic, EVERY player must improve or the Hitting Instructor is a failure? Only your stats matter and none of the stats listed by lady_knights matter at all? Again, just by your logic?

 

[ApogeeDemon]

So by your logic, EVERY player must improve or the Hitting Instructor is a failure? Only your stats matter and none of the stats listed by lady_knights matter at all? Again, just by your logic?

oh brother. You have to look at all the data! Not just the parts you like! Where did I say every hitter has to improve? Oh yea, nowhere. In fact I said Yanek and King are doing well. Take the blinders off. Some of the data would suggest that some of the hitters actually got worse. So should you ignore that? How can you be certain a system is working if some of your best hitters are no longer your best but are getting worse? As I said, you have to look at all the data. Im convinced that these girls could hit .150 and you all would still argue that your hitting system is the best in the world. LOL Stop drinking the kool aid people. Time for the sheep to wake up.

 

[Strohbro]

I really want to say what everyone is thinking.

 

[shummel]

oh brother. You have to look at all the data! Not just the parts you like! Where did I say every hitter has to improve? Oh yea, nowhere. In fact I said Yanek and King are doing well. Take the blinders off. Some of the data would suggest that some of the hitters actually got worse. So should you ignore that? How can you be certain a system is working if some of your best hitters are no longer your best but are getting worse? As I said, you have to look at all the data. Im convinced that these girls could hit .150 and you all would still argue that your hitting system is the best in the world. LOL Stop drinking the kool aid people. Time for the sheep to wake up.

You did NOT say that every hitter has to improve! But you do imply it when you don't give the poster credit for the TEAM improving! You don't ignore that some hitters got worse! Every kid is different and that means that the game plan with each kid is different! Sometimes that's easy, sometimes it isn't! Agreed? You say: how can one be certain a system is working when some of the best hitters are getting worse? If the team is improving, isn't that evidenced enough? Even in MLB, if the Reds get a new hitting instructor and the offensive numbers for the team improve but Votto got worse, does that mean the instructor failed? By your logic, it does! Nice logic!!!!! I have a young team and I very much enjoy learning! Do you have video of work with your kids in the garage or the basement to teach me something new? I view everything open-minded bc I never stop learning! I have made it obvious who I am , as have others, care to share who you are or the girls you have worked with and what (big time schools) they attend(ed)?

 

[ApogeeDemon]

You did NOT say that every hitter has to improve! But you do imply it when you don't give the poster credit for the TEAM improving! You don't ignore that some hitters got worse! Every kid is different and that means that the game plan with each kid is different! Sometimes that's easy, sometimes it isn't! Agreed? You say: how can one be certain a system is working when some of the best hitters are getting worse? If the team is improving, isn't that evidenced enough? Even in MLB, if the Reds get a new hitting instructor and the offensive numbers for the team improve but Votto got worse, does that mean the instructor failed? By your logic, it does! Nice logic!!!!! I have a young team and I very much enjoy learning! Do you have video of work with your kids in the garage or the basement to teach me something new? I view everything open-minded bc I never stop learning! I have made it obvious who I am , as have others, care to share who you are or the girls you have worked with and what (big time schools) they attend(ed)?

How do you know the team is improving? You don't. Once again, you have to look at ALL the data. Ok, let me use your logic. I implement a new hitting style for example. Out of my 9 hitters 7 got worse from the previous year and 2 have improved. So I tell everyone that its working because I have 2 kids that improved. Does that make any sense to you? If 3 girls improve and 9 regress, I guess that's success in your eyes. You say I didn't give credit? Can you read? Didn't I mention 2 players that are doing well or did you skip that part? The poster said he had data and to look at the data! I did, and I found that players actually got worse. Oh no, he really did crunch the data! I didn't think he knew how to do that. LOL I only looked at it for a minute. ALso, you cant get a real feel for the results after one season. I did mention that or did you skip that part too? You keep drinking the kool aid and sit back down. Thank you.

 

[shummel]

How do you know the team is improving? You don't. Once again, you have to look at ALL the data. Ok, let me use your logic. I implement a new hitting style for example. Out of my 9 hitters 7 got worse from the previous year and 2 have improved. So I tell everyone that its working because I have 2 kids that improved. Does that make any sense to you? If 3 girls improve and 9 regress, I guess that's success in your eyes. You say I didn't give credit? Can you read? Didn't I mention 2 players that are doing well or did you skip that part? The poster said he had data and to look at the data! I did, and I found that players actually got worse. Oh no, he really did crunch the data! I didn't think he knew how to do that. LOL I only looked at it for a minute. ALso, you cant get a real feel for the results after one season. I did mention that or did you skip that part too? You keep drinking the kool aid and sit back down. Thank you.

Keep proving your narrow-mindedness!!!!!!!!! The team is improving IF you read the Team Accomplishments. Did you? You say: once again you have to look at ALL of the data BUT you make it clear that you don't! This is not my opinion (bc my opinion is irrelevant) it is fact if you re-read! But that's IF. That makes the rest of your post pointless bc you cannot stay on topic and stick to facts!