some Umps were rough in Marysville

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There is absolutely NO excuse for an ump not calling: "infield fly (batter's out!)" --in a big, outdoor voice so all the baserunners can hear him. The home plate ump in a semi-final game failed to do this with the bases loaded and one out. The result was that when the pop fly was dropped, the runner at third broke for home thinking she had to run. She was tagged out at the plate to kill the rally and end a close game. Had he made the proper call using a loud voice, the runner would have stayed on third (in all probability) and the inning would have continued.

I saw another play where the ump failed to yell: "Batter's out!" on a swinging third strike in which the pitch was almost in the dirt. The catcher made a clean catch of the ball, but the back of her mitt hit the dirt. The ump simply raised his right fist in the air to signal the out-- but of course the catcher couldn't see the fist. When the runner bolted for first, the crowd and the coaches started screaming throw it to first! She hurried the throw and it sailed over the first baseman's head and out of play. The runner from second was allowed to score on a ball that should never have been thrown. That's bad umpiring. Funny thing-- the guy didn't even know he'd screwed it up. He was completely unaware of the ramifications of failing to use his voice.

 

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Sounds like there could be some coaching needed also...

 

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The third base coach should have known the rule also and held the girl there.

 

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The problem is that without the ump yelling Infield Fly, the offense doesn't know for sure whether he is calling an Infield Fly. If it's windy, or maybe a 12-U game, or about any other reason the umpire might not think the catch is routine, he might not call it. At that point, you have force outs and have to run.

Of course the good and experienced umpires reflexively recognize infield fly situations and are ready to call it should a routine pop up occur. The inexperienced umps often completely forget about it and are caught off guard when it happens.

 

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There is absolutely NO excuse for an ump not calling: "infield fly (batter's out!)" --in a big, outdoor voice so all the baserunners can hear him. The home plate ump in a semi-final game failed to do this with the bases loaded and one out. The result was that when the pop fly was dropped, the runner at third broke for home thinking she had to run. She was tagged out at the plate to kill the rally and end a close game. Had he made the proper call using a loud voice, the runner would have stayed on third (in all probability) and the inning would have continued.

I saw another play where the ump failed to yell: "Batter's out!" on a swinging third strike in which the pitch was almost in the dirt. The catcher made a clean catch of the ball, but the back of her mitt hit the dirt. The ump simply raised his right fist in the air to signal the out-- but of course the catcher couldn't see the fist. When the runner bolted for first, the crowd and the coaches started screaming throw it to first! She hurried the throw and it sailed over the first baseman's head and out of play. The runner from second was allowed to score on a ball that should never have been thrown. That's bad umpiring. Funny thing-- the guy didn't even know he'd screwed it up. He was completely unaware of the ramifications of failing to use his voice.

Sounds like some coaching mistakes as well as the umps.

 

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How can this be a coaching mistake? In this case, the ump did not call infield fly rule and the shortstop dropped the ball. This was not a routine catch. As Joe stated, it was windy and the shortstop had to go back to the edge of the grass to catch the ball. If the umpire did not call IFR, how can a coach hold the runners without knowing if they were liable to be "doubled up" or not?

 

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That's exactly the problem if the umpire doesn't announce the Infield Fly. Since the "routineness" of the catch is based 100% on the umpire's judgment, if he doesn't call it you have no sure way of knowing whether he's invoking the rule or not.

This can be a problem with inexperienced umpires. Unfortunately, their inexperience also can prevent them from realizing that this is a correctable situation.

We just had another lengthy thread about how an umpire reversing or delaying his call can be a correctable mistake. Not calling the Infield Fly is a perfect example of this. The delayed call (well, really "no call", then later saying he did call it) obviously put the offense at a disadvantage (they thought they had to run when they did not).

If the umpire didn't call it because he judged the catch to not be routine, then enforce the out at the plate. The end result is the offense has two outs and the bases loaded.

If he didn't call it because he forgot, then the correction is to call the batter out on the IFF and put the runner who was out at the plate back on third base. The end result is also that the offense has two outs and the bases loaded.

But if you didn't call it, you should not enforce BOTH outs! That is precisely what the IFF rule is designed to prevent and by not calling it the umpire has definitely put one team at a huge disadvantage.

The umpire not only has the RIGHT to fix this, but also has the DUTY to make this right!

On the uncaught third strike, umpires are trained (well, trained umpires are trained, that is) to loudly and forcefully announce that the batter is out when the batter tries to advance and is not legally able to. There's not an actual rule that says we have to do this, but it is taught as a matter of good game management and a way to head of any confusion.

In baseball, we have adopted a mechanic that helps on this play. If the ball is ruled not cleanly caught, the umpire may give a safe signal while announcing, "No catch". This mechanic, as much as I like it, has NOT been adopted by the softball world. Since "higher ups" frown upon using a non-approved mechanic, you won't see me using this in a softball game. But you will hear me calling, "Batter out", if she starts to run when not entitled to.

Similar to using the correct Infield Fly mechanic, this tells everyone that the umpire has judged a clean catch and lets them react accordingly. Then if a runner tries to advance and gets thrown out, or a catcher sails one over F3's head, that's their problem for not knowing the proper rules.

 

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I witnessed one ump at Marysville call an infield fly with runners on 3rd and 2nd. The field ump corrected him, but it confused some of the girls who thought that there was an out.

We also had a call go against us in our game against the Stingrays. The umpire called an illegal pitch, which I noticed right away but because my voice was shot from a cold I couldn't get his attention in time. He failed to advance the runner we had at first base. The Stingrays pitcher had already pitched and my DD had slapped the ball into play resulting in a FC out at second. When I discussed this with him after the play he said it was too late now.

 

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What do experienced coaches believe is the best thing to do in this situation? If the umpire doesn't call the infield fly, do you hold the runner at 3rd and argue the infield fly (resulting in an out), or do you take your chances and send the runner on home (resulting in possibly 2 outs if infield fly is called after the ball is dropped)? It really is a rally killer when infield fly is called after the fact and a runner is thrown out at home. Seen this happen a few times during high school games and at one game an umpire said that he called it, but not one person in the stands or on the field heard him and most people thought he was just covering his behind. This is a well-liked umpire who does a good job, but I think in the heat of the game, he just forgot to call "infield fly."

 

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What do you do when the field ump tells a defensive player there is 2 outs, so next ball hit is to the player and she goes to first instead of attempting the double play? There was only one out, and now the go ahead run is on 2nd and the rest is history. Umps aren't perfect, Coach's aren't perfect, players aren't perfect, thus is why we call it Softball. Good Games all weekend! Good tournament in Marysville!

 

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High School Rules NFHS 8-2-9 The batter-runner shall be called out when: An infield fly is declared, even if it is not called.


FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing to SLOW!

 

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That rule reinforces that the batter can still be out even if the umpire does not initially call or announce the Infield Fly.

What it doesn't address is what happens if the delayed call puts other runners at a disadvantage, because they don't know if they're required to run or not. It could even put the defense at a disadvantage, because they might not know which runner to play on if the IFF isn't properly called.

That's where you have to apply rule 10-2-3m: The (plate umpire) duties include...rectify any situation in which an umpire's decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

When the umpires fail to call or announce the IFF, it's not uncommom for all heck to break loose. On the flip side of that, I have had several occasions where I have LOUDLY called an Infield Fly, accompanied with the correct hand signal, and all heck still broke loose!

 

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Bretman, just be glad that you weren't the ump at this game. The umpire did call infield fly. People on the baseline heard it and people behind the plate heard it. I think the bigger problem was the timing. The shortstop got to the ball easily, then dropped the ball. The runner took off immediately. All heck did break loose. The coaches came out on the field screaming at the ump, then a fan came out on the field screaming at the ump, then another fan followed the umpires to the concession stand to yell at the ump some more. It was so loud, you could heard the screaming from 2 fields away. Just curious, at what point do they tell umps to call "infield fly." Is it when it's on the way up, or on the way down or right before the ball is caught? I think the timing of this call was more the issue than whether it was called or not.

 

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Um, Smoothie, at which point DID the ump make the call? If you're claiming that the timing is the issue, we need to know when the call was made.

Also, your post led me to review the opening post in this thread and I now see that thetruth rather subtly allowed for the fact that the call was indeed made, just not with a "loud outside voice".

 

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I was taught to call it (granted it has been a while) when I could clearly ascertain that it was a routine out - which for me usually means some point after it's reached its apex and has begun to fall. This is also a much easier call at 16U/18U vs 10U/12U.

 

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at 14 and 12, girls drop routine pops all the time, calling infield fly actually helps them....16's still gets called infrequently...should it always get called with runners on, or just in case of a force out?

 

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I witnessed one ump at Marysville call an infield fly with runners on 3rd and 2nd. The field ump corrected him, but it confused some of the girls who thought that there was an out.

We also had a call go against us in our game against the Stingrays. The umpire called an illegal pitch, which I noticed right away but because my voice was shot from a cold I couldn't get his attention in time. He failed to advance the runner we had at first base. The Stingrays pitcher had already pitched and my DD had slapped the ball into play resulting in a FC out at second. When I discussed this with him after the play he said it was too late now.

You found an umpire who knows what an illegal pitch looks like and ACTUALLY CALLED IT......
Miracles of all miracles. A lot of umpires turn their heads to illegal pitches. For you to find an umpire who knows the rule and enforces it - that's a major step even if they did mess up the rest of the rule after it......

 

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Generally, umpires are taught to call the infield fly when the ball is at the apex of its flight, right when it's gone as high as it's going to go and is just starting back down. This should give you the chance to see if the fielder is set up under the ball and that helps you judge if the catch can be made with "ordinary effort".

As for Ray's question, it should ALWAYS be called when there are runners at first and second, or bases loaded, there are less than two outs and the umpire judges that the catch can be made by an infielder with ordinary effort. All of those conditions must be met for the Infield Fly Rule to be invoked.

 

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I think the shortstop made a heck of a play, she hears infield fly drops the ball on purpose then gets the runner at home. Also the game was not that close.

 

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usually means some point after it's reached its apex and has begun to fall.

Wow - Big Word :lmao: