Strike Zone

[coop24]

"Probably will not live long enough to see their kids success however planting the seed is what it was all about."

Come on, we all know Heaven will kick you out and Hell does not want you, so you will just have to stay here with us.

 

[Hitter]

"Probably will not live long enough to see their kids success however planting the seed is what it was all about."

Come on, we all know Heaven will kick you out and Hell does not want you, so you will just have to stay here with us.

Coop I always know I can get a word of encouragement from you.....please take your chair to left field again

Tell Little Coop hello and she if she wants to come at Thanks Giving break.

Howard

 

[coop24]

i try to do my part, and I am moving my chair again

 

[ApogeeDemon]

I have found this discussion interesting for years.

Hitter has it correct in every way. But I will say that I tell me DDs this:

You are going to get "at least" 1 good pitch to drive every at bat. It is your job to drive that ball. If you miss it then you have now put yourself in serious jeopardy. Do not come back to the dugout complaining about the called 3rd strike 6 inches outside. You had your chance and watched it go by or fouled it off. Your issue.

It is a fact of life in college softball and MLB.

And you do not have to be a great hitter to understand and follow these guidelines. This is how the game is played, and to be able to excel at the sport you need to be able to play within these guidelines. That is why it is so important to work on that swing. So when you get that pitch you pound it.

I disagree. As a player, I have been rung up on a called third strike way off the plate. I knew it wasn't a strike, and I was lucky enough to have a coach that would let the ump know it between innings. Watch Hutch from Michigan, if the ump sux, she WILL let him/her know. To sit back and just take it is NOT the fault of the hitter. I agree, you have to make adjustments but if the ump doesn't know the rule book, then that's on him/her. I can understand a 1-2 inch off the plate but I dare you, stick a camera behind home and you will be amazed at what gets called a strike. Especially in summer when they want to speed up the game. I will never get on a player for laying off crap.

 

[Hilliarddad3]

And then it's up to the battery as well to know what is being called strikes and live there until Blue doesn't call it anymore.....

 

[wow]

I disagree. As a player, I have been rung up on a called third strike way off the plate. I knew it wasn't a strike, and I was lucky enough to have a coach that would let the ump know it between innings. Watch Hutch from Michigan, if the ump sux, she WILL let him/her know. To sit back and just take it is NOT the fault of the hitter. I agree, you have to make adjustments but if the ump doesn't know the rule book, then that's on him/her. I can understand a 1-2 inch off the plate but I dare you, stick a camera behind home and you will be amazed at what gets called a strike. Especially in summer when they want to speed up the game. I will never get on a player for laying off crap.

"Letting the ump know it" = bigger strike zone for hitter.. Maybe in College that's a tactic but in travel the UMPs not gonna have a revelation they got the call wrong and change the zone. Even if the Ump doesn't know the rule or has a misguided understanding of it, the time to address is after the game with the TD. I said it before and I will say it again. Take the UMP out of the situation and be able to hit all over the zone and even outside if necessary. I tell my kids to foul everything off with two and look for the pitching mistake. Most kids are not prepared to foul of 5-6-7 pitches with two.. if you're making contact with two the odds are in your favor you will not get rung up looking!

Point is don't argue with the ump. You have to be able to hit junk with two strikes and wait for a mistake. If not and you are looking because its crap , you have to live with looking at strike three call. Not looking at strike three is the ONE thing the batter controls! Why take the bat out of a hitter hands and rely on a call from blue?

 

[BouldersDad]

It has to be pretty bad to see a college coach challenge a call behind the plate. Does it happen? Yes it does. Does it pi$$ off blue? Yes it does. Does it affect the strike zone there after? You bet it does. Believe it or not Blues zone can be different if it is a good hitting team vs a team that cant hit. It can vary when a lights out pitcher works her magic on the corners. It is different if you have a All American behind the plate catching that knows how to frame and work the umpires zone. All these things I have seen at the upper level in college softball. So what is a hitter to do knowing that Blue is only human and their zone can change at a seconds notice?

Simple they must execute and stay disciplined to their own hitting zone, They must know when and where to make contact and drive thru the ball no matter its position on the plate. They must become effective in using the entire field not just trying to pull everything. It is the hitters responsibility to drive thru the ball not just swing like they are trying not to miss. A hitter or coach blaming the umpire for a poor quality at bat is an excuse. It is the responsibility of the Coach and the HI to make sure the hitter has the necessary tools and education to do their job at the plate and it is the hitters job to execute when the time comes.

IMHO excuses are nothing more than poor planing training and execution on everyone's part. Track the ball and rip the hips And see how the pitcher reacts to you the second time you face her in a game.

 

[ApogeeDemon]

It has to be pretty bad to see a college coach challenge a call behind the plate. Does it happen? Yes it does. Does it pi$$ off blue? Yes it does. Does it affect the strike zone there after? You bet it does. Believe it or not Blues zone can be different if it is a good hitting team vs a team that cant hit. It can vary when a lights out pitcher works her magic on the corners. It is different if you have a All American behind the plate catching that knows how to frame and work the umpires zone. All these things I have seen at the upper level in college softball. So what is a hitter to do knowing that Blue is only human and their zone can change at a seconds notice?

Simple they must execute and stay disciplined to their own hitting zone, They must know when and where to make contact and drive thru the ball no matter its position on the plate. They must become effective in using the entire field not just trying to pull everything. It is the hitters responsibility to drive thru the ball not just swing like they are trying not to miss. A hitter or coach blaming the umpire for a poor quality at bat is an excuse. It is the responsibility of the Coach and the HI to make sure the hitter has the necessary tools and education to do their job at the plate and it is the hitters job to execute when the time comes.

IMHO excuses are nothing more than poor planing training and execution on everyone's part. Track the ball and rip the hips And see how the pitcher reacts to you the second time you face her in a game.

I'm still going to disagree. How many times do you see coaches complain when a pitcher "crow hops?" That's not legal! That's not fair! Sorry, that's just an excuse! See how it works?! Or a slap hitter that steps out of the box and the coach yells, She's out of the box blue! Nope, just another excuse? I do believe that umps vary but what I think the poster is meaning is when the ump is really bad and is clearly calling pitches that are 6 inches off the plate so he/she can get to the tent and eat a hot dog. I understand that some are low, some are high etc. Also, in big games, waiting until after the game is too late. You can be respectful, "Hey ump, those pitches look too far outside, my players don't want to swing at those pitches." Theres a difference between "can" and "should." Your players "can" hit nose to toes as Hitter says, but "should" they be swinging at balls because the ump is bad?

 

[FastBat]

You can be respectful, "Hey ump, those pitches look too far outside, my players don't want to swing at those pitches." Theres a difference between "can" and "should." Your players "can" hit nose to toes as Hitter says, but "should" they be swinging at balls because the ump is bad?

Yes, you can be respectful, but so often it doesn't come out that way in the heat of the moment. I have found, to shut my mouth and "take" it. I hate when my kid is hitting or pitching and someone from my team "gives" the ump heck, siding with my kid! While that is nice to stick up for her, I just think to myself, "my kid is about to get robbed!"

In ump school, I learned two things:
1. No ump is perfect. You will make bad calls. As the ump, you will know, the ump made a bad call, players will know it, everyone in the park will know it. As a coach/player/parent, it is better to shut up and see if the ump tries to "right" that bad call.
2. If someone asks, "Ump, what's your strike zone?" Best answer, "Consistent", just hard to argue that.

 

[Hitter]

I'm still going to disagree. How many times do you see coaches complain when a pitcher "crow hops?" That's not legal! That's not fair! Sorry, that's just an excuse! See how it works?! Or a slap hitter that steps out of the box and the coach yells, She's out of the box blue! Nope, just another excuse? I do believe that umps vary but what I think the poster is meaning is when the ump is really bad and is clearly calling pitches that are 6 inches off the plate so he/she can get to the tent and eat a hot dog. I understand that some are low, some are high etc. Also, in big games, waiting until after the game is too late. You can be respectful, "Hey ump, those pitches look too far outside, my players don't want to swing at those pitches." Theres a difference between "can" and "should." Your players "can" hit nose to toes as Hitter says, but "should" they be swinging at balls because the ump is bad?

We adjust as required because we can and have practiced being able to execute it. By the third inning everyone should know what the umpire is calling and what the pitchers go to pitch is. If the hitter has never practiced this how can you expect them to do it in a game? Most umpires I have seen do not call the pitch in inches and it is usually at least two balls in or out and up and down.

Every hitter has choices too make....hit it or not if it is in their zone, take it if it is not in their zone with two strikes.
It is their choice to swing or not to swing however they have been taught how to hit it. If they choose to get rung up DO NOT LOOK BACK AT THE UMPIRE as it was their decision not to swing or at least attempt to foul it off and go take your place on the bench.

We teach what to do in each at bat based on the situation and not to just swing at the ball. Attempt to execute what the coach asks for and advance the runner or get on base is their job in my opinion.

There use to be a clip on You Tube called Bustos the Great. All the swings are not in the strike zone and are all home runs if I remember correctly. Coach Candrea asked her after swinging at a ball that bounced in front of the plate for a home run why she even took a swing at the ball. Her response was they will not pitch too me and I practice hitting balls that low. After the game she demonstrated how she practiced hitting low pitches to Coach.

Howard

 

[CARDS]

Hitter and Apogee Demon both make some good points.
Over the years I have addressed inconsistent umpires as a coach in some cases changes were made in most they still sucked..
However; we also guided the ladies to some strategies they can use to change the way they see pitches by owning the batters box. Best way to change a pitcher/umpire is by moving the catcher... Happens in all levels of baseball/softball...
Another BIG thing is step in the box ready to hit from the 1st pitch. I cannot count how many hours were spent from 12-16U with ladies that were told by dad or their hitting instructor to take until they get a strike.Again, do not beg for a walk step up to the plate knowing you will have success...

Like Hitter stated practice hitting pitches all over the strike zone in, out, up, down.
As the ladies get older they understand how the equipment (bats) can help them expand the strike zone .
Look at manny of the top hitters at the older ages and they swing 33" and 34' sticks. Hard to be able to make off the plate contact with a 31 or32" stick vs. good pitching and bad umpiring and not be exposed to inside pitches.

 

[ApogeeDemon]

We adjust as required because we can and have practiced being able to execute it. By the third inning everyone should know what the umpire is calling and what the pitchers go to pitch is. If the hitter has never practiced this how can you expect them to do it in a game? Most umpires I have seen do not call the pitch in inches and it is usually at least two balls in or out and up and down.

Every hitter has choices too make....hit it or not if it is in their zone, take it if it is not in their zone with two strikes.
It is their choice to swing or not to swing however they have been taught how to hit it. If they choose to get rung up DO NOT LOOK BACK AT THE UMPIRE as it was their decision not to swing or at least attempt to foul it off and go take your place on the bench.

We teach what to do in each at bat based on the situation and not to just swing at the ball. Attempt to execute what the coach asks for and advance the runner or get on base is their job in my opinion.

There use to be a clip on You Tube called Bustos the Great. All the swings are not in the strike zone and are all home runs if I remember correctly. Coach Candrea asked her after swinging at a ball that bounced in front of the plate for a home run why she even took a swing at the ball. Her response was they will not pitch too me and I practice hitting balls that low. After the game she demonstrated how she practiced hitting low pitches to Coach.

Howard

But again, lets look at this from another angle. So the base umpire never checks runners leaving early. The girl leaves early and slides into second safe, the catcher is mad but you tell her, nope, you cant blame him, you just need to be quicker. Also, Bustos was an Olympic ball player. She was a phenom. She has the body of a linebacker. She is one out of millions that can hit anything. Suzy in Ohio that plays 16U isn't. She cant be expected to hit home runs on pitches that are bounced off the dugouts. Suzy was doing her job by not swinging at balls. I just hate that you have to tell Suzy, the ump sux, so go ahead and swing at balls this game. Again, she "can" swing at balls but really, "should" she have to because of a bad ump?

 

[BretMan2]

I'm sure Bretman will be visiting this subject soon...

Or maybe not...

I don't really have much experience with this because I have never made a bad pitch call in a game.

 

[Hitter]

How do you know what Suzy from Ohio can do until you teach her what she and her body is capable of doing. In my opinion, we do not put self imposed limits on our kids. I have worked with kids that were deemed not coach able. It is even more fun when they do really well against there old team.

We do not live in a perfect world and umpires, referees, judges do not always get it right. In my opinion this is why instant replay was introduced in some pro sports. Of course you are not going to have it at this level. So do you promote leaving the bat on their shoulder or to become more aggressive at the plate. If a coach does not have a plan for that find another team that has a different philosophy on umpires and hitting.

I always laugh at the subjects on stealing signs, running up the score, stepping out of the batters box when one does not exist and a judgement call is rendered.

I do not like putting limits on hitters, let them find out for their selves what they are capable of. Those kids are the ones that practice more without parents begging them or demanding for them to do it.

A few years ago Crystl and I were at Indy doing an outdoor clinic. One of the kids ask how much she practiced when she was young and Crystl told them. Crystl then ask how many of you were aware we were coming and about half raised their hands. She ask them if they knew there would be 25 to 30 college coaches. A few raised their hands. Then it got interesting when she asked how many had practiced every day last week and no one raised their hand. Then it was 6,5,4,3 and most were 1 or 2 times and Crystl asked was it with your team. She said those do not count and you could count on one hand of those that were serious about improving their game.

You are probably spending about $400 to $500 dollars for a three day weekend based on gas, food and lodging....and your kid is not practicing on their own! Put that money in the bank and start a college fund.

Howard

 

[Hilliarddad3]

I disagree with this part hitter...."You are probably spending about $400 to $500 dollars for a three day weekend based on gas, food and lodging....and your kid is not practicing on their own! Put that money in the bank and start a college fund."

First, one in 100,000 kids going to college get a full ride, some get dollars to go for sports, but many won't see the dirt in college and their playing careers will be over for a multitude of reasons. 1 in a million will only have the luxury of playing on Team USA so to say don't waste your money is foolish. Whatever happened to playing for the sake of playing? Too many are reaching for the un reachable brass ring and we all forget why they play..... Two of my three could have played in college but chose not to and go to the college they wanted for the career they wanted..... Seeing them work hard all the years to possibly try and play at the last level and really sort of say nah I'm done was hard but when you really think about what they missed in their years makes you think a bit......would we trade the memories from the people and trips we made, no..... But man we put too much pressure on these kids for the Brass Ring that is dangling in front of them........

Let them prepare how they want, let them enjoy the short time they have as a teen and let everyone make memories and friends for life which is more important than the brass ring that only 1 in 100,000 kids will get from a sport.....

 

[coop24]

The only thing the umpire should do is to call fair or foul and safe or out.
First question to ask the hitter is, why did you let the first two strikes go by. ( I am probably sure they all were not bounced off a dugout )
A well trained hitter will make their opportunities at the plate, if they practice, and the others will make excuses.

 

[Louuuuu]

Or maybe not...

I don't really have much experience with this because I have never made a bad pitch call in a game.

Sir, you have officially made a visit....

 

[Hitter]

Hilliarddard said, "First, one in 100,000 kids going to college get a full ride, some get dollars to go for sports, but many won't see the dirt in college and their playing careers will be over for a multitude of reasons. 1 in a million will only have the luxury of playing on Team USA so to say don't waste your money is foolish. Whatever happened to playing for the sake of playing?''

Agree on the full ride however I do not remember focusing on that issue. Many of our girls are getting 50 to 70% and it helps reduce the costs.

My point is for those that are serious about playing at the next level may not be putting the effort into it in my opinion. Parents who can afford to pay for it just for the fun of it is no problem either. Many think or dream of their kid playing for a D1 school and a full ride and you are correct....it is probably not going to happen.

This is an issue that is more like social media for web sites and it is talked about all the time about California girls verses Ohio and the weather etc.

The strike zone was the issue and the the hitters ability to hit pitches that are not in the official strike zone. If they train to do it that is great and if they do not and have fun that is great. However if you complain about the umpires all the time then suzk it up and enjoy the game and the time you spend with your daughter. There is nothing wrong with that.

Education first and softball second because the next level is almost untouchable. I personally have had only one that played at the NPF level.

Sorry if I got off track as to the strike zone....it depends on each hitters drive and or ability to want to train to take it beyond travel ball. Most are happy with just playing travel ball or high school ball and playing varsity as a freshman in my opinion.

It is all good.

Howard

 

[cobb_of_fury]

I agree with HITTER that ANY Girl can be that ONE - I read once (and wish I remembered who said it)
"You can have ANYTHING you want in life; you just need to be willing to give up EVERYTHING to get it".
If the ONLY reason your DD is playing softball is for the free ride to collage and a Team USA jersey - you probably should stop now. Like HITTER said start a collage fund. Find out what she really wants to do, Point her passion towards that because if they are not playing because the LOVE the game those other things will probably never come.
But... for those girls who can hope for no more than getting to play sometimes on their high school team - but Love to play - do all you can, be your best - If you have other things other than softball - that's cool. enjoy softball as much as you want.

I think a lot of us on forums like this get caught up in the recruiting as the end all and be all. For a lot of girls that's not the case. They love softball but not so much that they are willing to give up everything else to play it. They have as much right to the game as the girl who works two hours every day 7 days a week.
That girl will no doubt blow them off the field because she LOVES the work and is willing to do it... and she deserves to be on the elite teams -
But... there are teams out there for girls who think of softball as an activity - even travel teams where the girl do not live and breathe the sport and that's OK.

So... How does that answer the OP's question?

Whooo... wait, what was the original question?

From the 10u days on, how often have you became aggravated with the strike zone?

OH... Alot... I've been aggravated with the strike zone alot.

 

[ApogeeDemon]

How do you know what Suzy from Ohio can do until you teach her what she and her body is capable of doing. In my opinion, we do not put self imposed limits on our kids. I have worked with kids that were deemed not coach able. It is even more fun when they do really well against there old team.

We do not live in a perfect world and umpires, referees, judges do not always get it right. In my opinion this is why instant replay was introduced in some pro sports. Of course you are not going to have it at this level. So do you promote leaving the bat on their shoulder or to become more aggressive at the plate. If a coach does not have a plan for that find another team that has a different philosophy on umpires and hitting.

I always laugh at the subjects on stealing signs, running up the score, stepping out of the batters box when one does not exist and a judgement call is rendered.

I do not like putting limits on hitters, let them find out for their selves what they are capable of. Those kids are the ones that practice more without parents begging them or demanding for them to do it.

A few years ago Crystl and I were at Indy doing an outdoor clinic. One of the kids ask how much she practiced when she was young and Crystl told them. Crystl then ask how many of you were aware we were coming and about half raised their hands. She ask them if they knew there would be 25 to 30 college coaches. A few raised their hands. Then it got interesting when she asked how many had practiced every day last week and no one raised their hand. Then it was 6,5,4,3 and most were 1 or 2 times and Crystl asked was it with your team. She said those do not count and you could count on one hand of those that were serious about improving their game.

You are probably spending about $400 to $500 dollars for a three day weekend based on gas, food and lodging....and your kid is not practicing on their own! Put that money in the bank and start a college fund.

Howard

Again, youre comparing Suzy to an Olympic Hitter. There are many girls that practice hitting every single day and only hit .200 with a hitting coach. You say the hardest thing to do is hit a round ball with a round bat, but then give the assumption that if you practice hard enough, you'll be a Crystal Bustos. That's simply not true. By saying a hitter isn't any good because she doesn't practice enough, or isn't taught the right way is false advertising. Hitting is a combination of muscles, hand eye, coordination, etc. To just say you need more practice isn't the answer or every girl would be batting .500 and playing for Alabama. The OP is saying that umps call horrible pitches strikes and you guys seem to be ok with that and make it sound like its the batters fault. The politically correct answer is to say, oh, you have to be able to hit anything at anytime. The reality is that Suzy has to swing at those pitches because the ump is bad, that doesn't make it right.