Pitching and Pitchers Discussion The secret to a rise ball

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1yThRAgPKM

Len

 

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Only Chuck Norris can throw a rise ball.....

 

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Lenski - Notice how the spin is "off center", more of a screw spin than a back spin. Her finish is across in front of her body (yet another topic) which caused her hand to come off the side of the ball, creating a sideways screw spin. For that backspin to work, she has to keep her wrist cocked more at 90 degrees, and finish straight up.

There is another video (called "Spinner") that showed in the links on the You Tube page. This girl was a RH pitcher, and had an across the body finish also - with spin in the exact opposite direction. I'm guessing this kid meant to impart that type of spin??

Neither are what I'd call a bad pitch, they just don't have a true riseball backspin. But then, rarely do you see a really good backspin on a rise anyway.

 

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There is no real secret to the rise. Other than making sure you have correct back spin. It doesnt have to be perfect. It doesnt hurt to have long fingers but you can modify the grip to help in that area. 11-5 is as acceptable as 12-6 backspin. It should not be side spin. Which is why Bill Hillhouse isnt in favor of teaching pitchers the screw ball or curve.

Its called the bleed over effect. Or at least that is what I call it. Its when the spin of one type of pitch bleeds over into another type of pitch. Often seen when a pitcher is learning the spin for a new pitch. Often when learning to throw the rise what you get is a screwball with a bullet spin. I have seen my students work on several different types of pitches with the bleed over effect impacting all of them at one time or another. It takes time to sort them all out and get them right. Many never get the rise right.

You have to dedicate some serious practice time to make this pitch work well. When it does it is a thing of beauty and you will fool a lot of batters with it. Really that is what pitching is about. Controlling the flight of the ball and fooling batters.

No big secret.

Dana.

 

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Lenski - Notice how the spin is "off center", more of a screw spin than a back spin. Her finish is across in front of her body (yet another topic) which caused her hand to come off the side of the ball, creating a sideways screw spin. For that backspin to work, she has to keep her wrist cocked more at 90 degrees, and finish straight up.

There is another video (called "Spinner") that showed in the links on the You Tube page. This girl was a RH pitcher, and had an across the body finish also - with spin in the exact opposite direction. I'm guessing this kid meant to impart that type of spin??

Neither are what I'd call a bad pitch, they just don't have a true riseball backspin. But then, rarely do you see a really good backspin on a rise anyway.

That is what a bad riseball looks like. Just a high pitch. The spin, as Sammy noted, wasn't quite right.

 

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That is what a bad riseball looks like. Just a high pitch. The spin, as Sammy noted, wasn't quite right.

Ummm......did you physically see the ball drop? Do you realize that the spin that ball has will come up and in on a RH hitter. Did you see the reaction of the catchers mitt. My guess is that she gets many strikeouts with that pitch. It's a better riseball than most pitchers around here have.

Len

 

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Now this cute little gal has got it goin' on! I'm thinking she is more knowledgeable than most dads!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ncJiWp-rZc

 

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Seriously it is much easier to teach your infield to play great defense and your pitchers to throw drops and keep the fast ball at the knees.

 

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Seriously it is much easier to teach your infield to play great defense and your pitchers to throw drops and keep the fast ball at the knees.

A ton of truth in that. DD induced a LOT of grounders in travel ball, and depended on her infielders to do their jobs. Won many tough games that way! That's an old baseball philosophy too.

 

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Baddest riseball on the planet Angela Tincher made so called greatest hitter on the planet butos look silly her and mendoza were swinging at pitches in there eye's.

 

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Ummm......did you physically see the ball drop? Do you realize that the spin that ball has will come up and in on a RH hitter. Did you see the reaction of the catchers mitt. My guess is that she gets many strikeouts with that pitch. It's a better riseball than most pitchers around here have.

Len

No, I'm saying that is what a bad riseball looks like. It just kinda goes from release to the upper part of the strike zone. I've caught countless of those from my DD. When she gets real riseball spin on it, which she is doing more frequently, it moves differently. It comes in looking like a strike and moves late. It makes all the difference to the hitter whether they'll swing at it or not. Disciplined hitters lay off the bad ones, or hit them if they're hittable. The good ones are strikes or pop-ups.

 

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No, I'm saying that is what a bad riseball looks like. It just kinda goes from release to the upper part of the strike zone. I've caught countless of those from my DD. When she gets real riseball spin on it, which she is doing more frequently, it moves differently. It comes in looking like a strike and moves late. It makes all the difference to the hitter whether they'll swing at it or not. Disciplined hitters lay off the bad ones, or hit them if they're hittable. The good ones are strikes or pop-ups.

LOL.....Well, having that "bad" riseball in her repertoire....and throwing it in her skills video for all college coaches to see duped the University of Delaware (Division 1) to scout her and convince her to sign her national letter of intent.

http://www.fastpitchdynamics.com/

Len

 

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Unfortunately, U of Delaware doesn't hit the Rebel games in Fla., or I'd make an effort in a couple weeks to go watch Ms Conway in action. She more than likely has other attributes in her pitching portfolio that we didn't see, which obviously combined to make her an attractive addition to their roster.

DI college ball is an entirely different animal than high school, and even some of the Eastern "gold" designated teams. A certain player on Mike Larabee's team (Hitter knows her ) took a pitch very similar (even MORE inside - a jamb pitch) yard over the left field fence on my DD as a sophomore.

Unless a DI college pitcher has a top shelf rise, NOT a typical Ohio travel ball rise, it's gonna get hit often - and hit hard! Better have more than that as a strike-out pitch, like confident well spotted off-speed and a killer change.

 

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The rise was the one pitch my daughter never really mastered. When she threw it the spin was wrong and it was just a fastball thrown at an upward angle. Which is what you will see from the majority of pitchers in HS here in Texas too.

Of the 7 HRs hit off my daughter in her select and HS career 5 of them were riseballs that forgot to rise. If the spin would have been better a few of those may not have gone yard.

Dana

 

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I have seen those that throw a true rise ball, but like Sammy and Dana stated most in Ohio throw a slant rise. If you are catching you will know a true rise ball when you see it. Bill Hillhouse has a great DVD on how to throw a true rise ball. His is wicked. A bad rise ball like Sammy stated is a HR. One of CB longest hits was a inside riseball. It is not an easy pitch to learn and Bill will say it may take years of practice to master it.

 

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Seriously it is much easier to teach your infield to play great defense and your pitchers to throw drops and keep the fast ball at the knees.

I will take a strike out over a ground ball any day.

 

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LOL.....Well, having that "bad" riseball in her repertoire....and throwing it in her skills video for all college coaches to see duped the University of Delaware (Division 1) to scout her and convince her to sign her national letter of intent.

http://www.fastpitchdynamics.com/

Len

I was thinking about my adjective choice on the way in to work and thought that maybe "bad" was a poor choice. In truth, the rotation of that pitch was less than ideal, but that doesn't make it an ineffective pitch. Maybe I'm a perfectionist, but I know and have seen firsthand what true 6-12 spin looks like and how it makes a difference.

 

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I will take a strike out over a ground ball any day.

Unless you get a doubleplay.

 

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Unless you get a doubleplay.

LOL true....I would say double plays are kind of rare in softball, two K`s happen more often

 

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I will take a strike out over a ground ball any day.

And I will take a ground out over a DOUBLE from a 14u pitcher who THINKS they throw a rise ball.

you have strike out pitchers and you have pitch to contact pitchers.
I have coached both niether had a rise but a well place fast ball up works just fine.