Theoretical question - high school rosters

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This truly is a theoretical question ... I don't coach high school, and my daughter has already completed her college career. But I was reading through the high school attrition thread, and it made me think about something ...

Say you were a high school coach, and you had 24 girls come out for this year's team, 6 from each of the 4 classes. So theoretically, you have enough to field both a varsity and JV team. But in looking at the skills of the girls, you realize that if you took the best 12 players for varsity, that it would clearly be 4 freshmen (including the best 2 pitchers in the program), 4 sophomores, 2 juniors and 2 seniors. What do you do? Do you even have any choice or would the AD/school dictate that you need to field 2 teams? Assume that JV usually plays the same nights as the varsity at different locations, and that the competition for JV would be weak.

 

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In a perfect world, you'd take your best 12...while accounting for position and disregarding grade level. Sadly, you'd probably only be able to field one team that way, due to voluntary attrition (quitting).

The only real way to prevent this is to work hard to develop community players at the younger ages, and get 50 or 60 players to tryouts. When the numbers are down, the tail wags the dog.

 

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I think you take all six seniors if they have been with the program for 3 years, maybe they dont start but you dont cut them. You have to be faithfull to your veterans, if not your pool will shrink and sooner or later you wont have any team to field.

 

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Jeff at our High School this is not theoretical but actual. We have 24 girls out for the team. 3 Seniors 5 Juniors 7 sophmores and 9 freshmen. Best Pitcher is a sophmore. Remainder of the starting line-up will be 2 freshmen, 3 sophmores and 3 Juniors. All seniors will dress with varsity and see limited action. We decided to field the JV team since our numbers are mostly underclassmen and taking the opportunity to try and coach up some of the younger girls to play at the varsity level while giving them some actual game time experience as well.

 

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Best 12. Ad has no say! Senior is offered to set on bench, be cut or play on JV. If we don't have enough for JV then so be it! The pitcher may swing to avoid not having any pitching. If you have seen JV pitching you are just thankful they don't walk someone, it is ugly anyway. We take someone and make a pitcher out of her.

 

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Would love to bring a few 7th graders up to pitch!!:lmao:

 

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DD's problem last year, when she was a freshman pitcher, was as a JV pitcher the team had pitching but little else. more than half the team was made of girls who had never played before. It frustrated the heck out of the girls who were experienced, but our dd, who was coming off a shoulder injury, got a chance to pitch and get back into form, so we were grateful. If it wasn't for the JV team, she would have just ridden the pine for most of the season. They got to play, got to hit and came close to finishing at .500.

 

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I don't know if the numbers would allow for this, but if they did, here is what I would do. In fact, I faced very similar circumstances a couple of years when coaching high school ball.

Keep the seniors on varsity, along with anyone else who is a starter or will get a good amount of varsity playing time. That likely will leave at least nine for JV. It might be rosters of 15 on varsity and 9 on JV, or 14 and 10, but so be it. The point is to try to win at the varsity level.

 

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Rangers ... understand what you're saying and why, but not sure I agree with it. I coached high school for 4 years about 5 years back ... every year we kept at least one senior who we knew wouldn't start, and we told them upfront that they wouldn't. One of those years the senior was great ... she handled not playing much, had a great attitude, and the younger girls loved her. The other 3 years however, these non-starting seniors were poison ... they sulked, they and/or their parents bad-mouthed the coaches, and they made the younger girls uncomfortable with their bi***ing. Do you worry about being faithful to girls like that, or do you worry more about the younger girls who have good attitudes and show them that it takes a good attitude as well as good skills to stay and play in the program?

SBFamily ... agree with you for the most part, except that I wouldn't allow a senior to play JV, if the school would even allow it. I don't think most seniors would want to play JV and, even if she did, I don't think it helps the program any for her to be there ... plus I'd worry about any negative influence she'd have on the other girls there.

Also, while I agree with you that if I'm going to be a head coach, I want to field the best varsity team possible regardless of grade and regardless of what it means to the other teams. But I do think there are some AD's/school administrators who might insist otherwise and want to keep parents happy by doing whatever it takes to let as many girls play softball as they can. If I ever went back to high school coaching, I'd want to make sure that me and the AD are on the same page about that before I took the job.

One note ... I do think that freshman or sophomores should only be on varsity if they are pretty much assured of being starters, or at least playing very significant roles.

 

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At our high school, last year seniors were asked if they wanted to play JV or see limited time on varsity. One chose the latter and one chose to play JV. It is their choice. This year all 4 seniors will be on varsity, 3 are likely to start. The other will play, not sure about start. That being said, we will not have a strong team this year. We only have a couple stand outs, unfortunately!

 

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. We only have a couple stand outs, unfortunately!

If couple of standouts are a pitcher and a catcher you still could have a decent season.:yahoo:

 

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I don't know if the numbers would allow for this, but if they did, here is what I would do. In fact, I faced very similar circumstances a couple of years when coaching high school ball.

Keep the seniors on varsity, along with anyone else who is a starter or will get a good amount of varsity playing time. That likely will leave at least nine for JV. It might be rosters of 15 on varsity and 9 on JV, or 14 and 10, but so be it. The point is to try to win at the varsity level.

OP's best 12 would only leave 8 non-seniors for JV. I agree if some of the top 12 aren't going to get a good amount of varsity playing time, they should take turns playing on the JV team. Our HS did it last year because we had a bunch of girls that were on the V/JV bubble.

A couple of years ago, a school started the year with 20 players split between V/JV and then lost a couple to injuries. They rescheduled the JV games to different days so some players could do double-duty because our HS rules don't allow a player to play V and JV on the same day.

We had a senior that was allowed to be on the varsity team last year after 3 years on JV with the understanding that she would get minimal playing time. It wasn't much of a risk because she was a good person that wouldn't cause problems. You need to make it clear they'll only be allowed to be on the team if they behave themselves. I don't think it's just seniors - any player can be a negative influence if they feel they should be playing ahead of someone else. Coaches have to be able to deal with them.

The head coach's first priority should be to win games at the varsity level. The AD has some say in how the program is run based on their influence in whether the coach will be brought back next year.

 

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If couple of standouts are a pitcher and a catcher you still could have a decent season.:yahoo:

Actually they are! LOL

 

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Not sure why a coach would keep a Junior on JV, if they feel there is no way they would help the Varsity team the following year?????
Cut them as a Junior if feel there is no way they will be at least worthy of being 12th or 13th player Senior season......even then a stretch......

I am amazed at the caliber of many div. I schools. Many teams don't have 3 or 4 girls who play Select. Our high school has nearly 40 girls from the Varsity, JV, & Freshman teams that ALL play Select ball.....

 

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As a long time varsity coach you need to do what is best for your program, some years that means suffering or sacrificing at the varsity level to keep a strong class of future varsity stars who are jv's together for the future, sometimes it means starting freshman over upperclassmen when you antcipate a banner year and you can't afford not to play them. Sometimes it's getting a kid to switch positions for the good of the team after several of starting somewhere else when you have a better younger player. As for playing the best, I've found out thru the years that its not the best it's the ones who give the team the best opportunity for sucess, that means skill, knowledge, loyalty, coachability, etc...

 

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Not sure why a coach would keep a Junior on JV, if they feel there is no way they would help the Varsity team the following year?????
Cut them as a Junior if feel there is no way they will be at least worthy of being 12th or 13th player Senior season.......

You my friend have Been very fortunate. I believe schoolball is about winning but there are other factors because not every school have 10-40 select ball players. Junior who has been to every practice since freshman year and has kept her head up and has been positive influence on the bench or JV is a type of positive I want in life. I'd rather have her on my varsity bench over many a player I have seen. There should be a reward for trying and if she gets to earn a varsity letter in her senior year, who does it hurt? She sits on the bench and she knows her role on the team. Also, you teach kids perseverance does pay off.

i haven't been around select ball for a long time but my observation is just because you play travel ball doesn't mean you are always the better player.

 

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Ok here is what I have this year by class.
Freshman: 5
Sophomore:9, 5 of which had played some varsity last year
Juniors:4, 1 varsity last year
Seniors: 3 All have been varsity 4th year, also the only three girls that came out their freshman year.
And now by Travel Ball Players, Still active in summer programs,( i.e. year round training.
Total: 4

 

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Here is info I pass to my girls on our first practice day... We go through a list prior to the start of our first practice, (this past Monday)...
We allow time for any questions that may come up, then we get moving into workouts...... parents see this info too at our parent meeting.Tryouts;
What are we looking for in our players?
-Safety: If we played our toughest opponent today, who would be able to play?
-Athletic: Natural ability to play?
-Softball skills: What are your abilities compared to our needs?
-Commitment: Are you on time? (In this case early) Are you able to make practices and games? Are you putting the same work in as all of the girls?
-Diversity: Will you play the position that we feel you should play and need you to play?
-Adapt and take instruction quickly: The game changes quickly. In practice are you able to understand and adapt quickly? Do you adjust? Do you keep doing things your way to prove that your way is the right way?
-Player growth: JV or varsity? Best opportunity to development as a player. It is also what helps the school program in future years.
Realistic: Do you truly understand where your ability is now?
-Puts team goals 1st?
-FUNDIMENTALSALL THE TIME? Or are the coaches telling you multiple times?

While in Drills
Girls should,
-Show that you know the basics, if you know the basics.
-Move quickly during the drill
-Move quickly when switching drills.
-Be aggressive…not cautious
-Be aware of what’s going on around them
-Make adjustments as they are asked too
-Don’t get lazy during the drill

The first 2 weeks of the season.
-Some girls are nervous to impress coaches.
(If you are nervous in practice, you will defiantly be nervous facing a tough hard hitting team with a strong throwing pitcher)
-Girls try to do what they think coaches want…
-Worried about making varsity only…..

Once the teams are decided:
What is expected? Are we still watching? (YES)
-Continue to work hard.
-Continue to focus on your softball growth and improvement.
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In working to improve our school program, We begin practices working on defense only the first 3-4 days. This gives ALL girls a chance to get into softball together.
We then move to hitting drills. All tee and soft toss drills. Again explaining the what and whys of hitting. By mid next week we pick our teams based on what we have seen.
We do not look at grade level when making our decisions. We constantly talk to all players answering the ever elusive questions for some programs...Where do I stand? And how do I fit? What is my roll in the softball program?
We are honest with the girls and work to get each girl to see where they are now...and work with each girl to get them where they want to be in the future!
I will get back to you on what the make up of my teams will be next week!

 

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We are operating with a 'no cut' policy from the District.

As a head coach you have to play todays game but train for next years season both at the same time. Playing time is limited and a weak freshman is more valuable to the program than a weak senior.

We've had some seniors that were role players and we could work into a game now and then. We've had some seniors that were just poor players that never improved but like being part of a team. These players are almost never going to get on the field. We try find something valuable for them to do and make certain that they understand their value to the team as mature people. They can run the warm-ups, push players to work harder and be our go to persons for gut checks. It surprising what they can do for you that isn't related to an ERA or a batting average.

If a kid is going to put up with me for 3 years, I can put up with her for the fourth. Remember that the least important thing that we HS coaches are teaching; is anything about softball.

 

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"If a kid is going to put up with me for 3 years, I can put up with her for the fourth. Remember that the least important thing that we HS coaches are teaching; is anything about softball"
Amen Fairman!!