Time to give the Umps some love

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Alright. I learned, well actually re-learned a rule today. I had forgot it but having the play happen and then the umpires making the call got me to thinking (which is a highly dangerous thing for me to do, just ask my wife).

Runners on 3rd base and 2nd base, 1 out. Batter hits a ground ball the the 1st baseman who fields the ground ball and heads down the foul line to intercept and tag the batter-runner. The batter-runner stops before the 1st baseman can get to her and takes a step back toward home base. Runner from 3rd base crosses the plate and the runner from 2nd base advances to 3rd base.

The plate umpire calls the batter-runner out. I knew this part. But, the plate umpire then puts the runners back on the bases that they started on.

I am sitting way down the 1st base foul line so we didn't hear the explaination so I had to go look-up the rule. The plate umpire had it totally correct. I had forgotten about the deadball portion of the rule. Read it many times but I had never really seen the rule used before.

Now here is the real kicker. The plate umpire was the UIC that I had an issue with the week before. It was a great play by the umpires.

 

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Without me having to look this rule up.... is it a dead ball because of the fact that it was a force out?

 

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Nice. I knew that was a OHSAA rule but didn't think it was the same in ASA (assuming ASA?)

 

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Not sure of the reasoning. I don't think it would be because of a force-out because a runner/Batter-runner can back-up on any other baseline except the Home to first base baseline.

 

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This rule only applies to a batter-runner and only between first and home. Runners between other bases may reverse direction without penalty.

It's a rule, but I would be hard pressed to tell you why it's a rule or how the rule evolved. I can only imagine that it was crafted due to some perceived advantage the offense might gain by employing this tactic. Reversing direction could tie up the defense long enough to let another runner score, I guess. And, if you're between first and home there really isn't any base to retreat to, unlike between all of the other bases.

There's a similar rule in baseball which pre-dates the softball rule. There, a batter-runner is out if he reverses direction, but only if he actually retreats back past home.

A run can score on this play- so long as there weren't two outs before it happened. When the batter-runner is called out for this violation the other runners are returned to their last base touched at the time of the infraction. It is possible for a runner to cross the plate BEFORE the batter-runner is called out. In that case, the run would count.

 

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We had the batter hit a ball to short stop, Batter runs to first base, the ball gets there after runner, Umpire yells out runner missed the base. I (from third) yell to my runner to get on the base and stay there. I then start to tell the base umpire that the runner is safe as she is not required to touch first base, she is only required to beat the throw. It must be a live ball appeal by the defense and then they must touch the runner before she gets back to first base. The base umpire says he has no idea about this, and ask the Plate umpire. Which he repiles that i am correct and runner is safe. I almost fell over...lol


I then go to the 16u game and the Ohio Ice pitcher is pitching side arm the whole game, yet the umpire refused to call it. We hit the ball 3 times in 6 innings the rest were all strike outs, talk about a unfair advantage.

 

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This rule only applies to a batter-runner and only between first and home. Runners between other bases may reverse direction without penalty.

It's a rule, but I would be hard pressed to tell you why it's a rule or how the rule evolved. I can only imagine that it was crafted due to some perceived advantage the offense might gain by employing this tactic. Reversing direction could tie up the defense long enough to let another runner score, I guess. And, if you're between first and home there really isn't any base to retreat to, unlike between all of the other bases.

There's a similar rule in baseball which pre-dates the softball rule. There, a batter-runner is out if he reverses direction, but only if he actually retreats back past home.
A run can score on this play- so long as there weren't two outs before it happened. When the batter-runner is called out for this violation the other runners are returned to their last base touched at the time of the infraction. It is possible for a runner to cross the plate BEFORE the batter-runner is called out. In that case, the run would count.

I believe it's a rule because a runner must establish a base in order to be able to retreat to it, and the runner must establish the bases in order. In other words, the runner is not allowed to retreat to a base they have not previously established. Also, as a "weaker" confirmation, the interference rule states that purposely confusing the fielder trying to make a play is a no-no, and it can be construed as confusion if a runner is heading to a base that has not been previously established.

That being said, the runner can come to a complete stop. This is construed as the runner giving up and conceding the out.

Len

 

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(fastpitch first base and home)
The Runner can stop and is not out for stopping, she just can not step backwards if she does she is out.

 

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(fastpitch first base and home)
The Runner can stop and is not out for stopping, she just can not step backwards if she does she is out.

Correct.

Len

 

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blue in indy at the circle city showcase seem far above the norm

 

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We had the batter hit a ball to short stop, Batter runs to first base, the ball gets there after runner, Umpire yells out runner missed the base. I (from third) yell to my runner to get on the base and stay there. I then start to tell the base umpire that the runner is safe as she is not required to touch first base, she is only required to beat the throw. It must be a live ball appeal by the defense and then they must touch the runner before she gets back to first base. The base umpire says he has no idea about this, and ask the Plate umpire. Which he repiles that i am correct and runner is safe. I almost fell over...lol

I'm lost on this one based on the way some rules are worded. Well either way I am lost on why this would be correct.

NFHS uses the phrase "reaches first base". NSA and USSSA use the phrase "touches first base". ASA doesn't have their rule book online (is that an A$A $$$ thing? LOL), so I don't know what they say. At any rate, seems to me if the runner misses the base on a force play and a fielder has the ball in their possesion while on the base, then the runner (batter/runner in this case) would be out even if they have already passed the base. (without touching it) Further, even if it's an appeal play (which doesn't sound right to me), why can't the defense then just make the appeal after the argu... errr discussion?

 

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Had another unique call today.

With a count of 3 balls and 2 strikes, the next pitch comes to the inside part of the plate. The batter leans out toward the pitch and the pitch hits her in the arm. She starts to trot to 1st base then the plate umpire informs her that the pitch was a strike and that she is out. She does not get a HP, but a K for leaning into the strike zone to get hit by the pitch (since it was the third strike)(the penatly for such an offense is a Strike).

Way to go blue.

 

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I'm lost on this one based on the way some rules are worded. Well either way I am lost on why this would be correct.

NFHS uses the phrase "reaches first base". NSA and USSSA use the phrase "touches first base". ASA doesn't have their rule book online (is that an A$A $$$ thing? LOL), so I don't know what they say. At any rate, seems to me if the runner misses the base on a force play and a fielder has the ball in their possesion while on the base, then the runner (batter/runner in this case) would be out even if they have already passed the base. (without touching it) Further, even if it's an appeal play (which doesn't sound right to me), why can't the defense then just make the appeal after the argu... errr discussion?

A.S.A Rules Supplement
1.) Appeals
L. Missing First Base Before Throw Arrives
When a runner passes first base before the throw arrives, they are considered to have touched the base unless properly appealed..(.skipping the double base stuff..)...When an appeal is made in both situations, it must be made prior to the runner returning to first base while the ball is live

 

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One universal concept in baseball and softball is that a runner who passes a base, even without touching it, is assumed to have touched it until the miss is properly appealed by the defense. That's why a runner who misses, say, second base while going from first to third isn't automatically called out by the umpire. A missed base is an appeal play and that means the umpire can't issue a ruling unless the defense appeals.

It's the same at first base. If the runner passes over or by the bag before the ball gets there, she is safe- up until the point where the defense appeals the miss. Once the runner returns to first and is touching it, it's too late to make an appeal.

Appealing a miss of first base is handled differently than other appeals, like missing the other bases, a runner leaving early on a caught fly ball or batting out of order. All of those other appeals can be made as dead-ball appeals, after the play is over. Due to the special nature of first base, where runners may legally overrun the bag and immediately return to it, this must be a live-ball appeal and it must be executed before the runner returns. In addition, the defense must make it clear exactly what is being appealed. A tag of either the base or the runner, before the runner returns, needs to be accompanied with a verbal appeal. The fielder needs to state something along the lines of, "She missed the base", as part of the appeal.

The reason the appeal must be verbal is that it differentiates between tagging a runner who has rounded first and made an attempt toward second base and one who has overrun the base but missed touching it.

 

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Learned something today. Doesn't seem particularly logical to me, but nobody consulted me when the rules were written.

So let's say you have a runner slide into home plate and miss the plate by sliding next to it with the intention of touching it with the hand but miss. Ball gets there after the runner, catcher sees the miss and the tag is applied... a) while the runner is getting up and heading to the dugout or b) while the runner is scrambling to touch home. How is that ruled?

 

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The rule applies a little differently at home. There are even different mechanics for the umpire on plays at the plate.

If the runner misses the plate and the catcher misses the tag, the umpire should pause a moment to see if either player will attempt to complete the play (either the runner try to touch the base or the catcher completes the tag). If neither happens or is imminent, then the umpire should signal and call safe (remember, a runner who passes a base is assumed to have touched it).

Since this play is at home, the defense would still be able to make a missed base appeal (either live or dead-ball) up until the time of the next pitch.

If immediately following the miss the runner tries to retouch the base or the catcher tries to tag her, then you just rule safe or out as a continuation of the play.

If the runner misses home without a tag attempt (ie: catcher does not have the ball) then the umpire makes no signal. With no tag attempt there is nothing to rule on, either safe or out. Again, the runner is assumed safe for passing the base. Now, the runner may retouch the plate or a fielder may secure the ball and tag her. If the runner doesn't re-touch and just goes off the field the usual missed base appeal process would apply. If she's not appealed the run counts. If she's appealed before the next pitch, no run and she's out.