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Another factor that most overlook is that in my experience, coaching high school may make a travel ball coach a better coach and coaching travel ball may make a high school coach a better coach!!!!
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Wow, you almost confused the heck out of me with that one.
Only "almost"????? I am still confused!!!!!
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It always amazes me how many people lose sight of this fact. I can recall often telling parents that they were not paying for coaching, that their fee was going pretty much 100% toward team expenses such as tournament fees, insurance, a bit of equipment and uniforms.
If people want to expect to complain about coaches not being good enough in travel ball, then they should be willing to pay another $500-$1000 per player in the fee so that the coach can make $5000-$12,000. If that seems like a lot, high school head coaches at a Division I school are usually somewhere between $3000 and $8000 and they only officially can coach from late February through late May, while travel ball coaches are now expected to coach year round except for the school season at 16-U and 18-U. With travel ball being at a higher level in most instances and the coach dealing with more personal expenses than a high school coach, anything under $7500 is peanuts.
To everyone complaining about volunteer coaches (or coaches who receive only expenses such as hotels and gas), come on, give them a break. If a coach is verbally abusive or something like that, that's one thing, but to ride coaches who are doing their best and giving hundreds and even thousands of their hours to your daughters is incomprehensible and just abhorrent. They should receive nothing but a genuine thank you and maybe a really nice gift card at the end of the season.
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Thanks, Joe ... thought it was just me missing something on this thread. I mean I guess if a travel coaches promises that there are going to be lots of practices and tournaments during a certain period of time, and then commits to something else and doesn't follow through, I guess I see the point. But to take on a paying job that was perhaps a dream of theirs, and give a little less time to the volunteer job, can we play them for that??
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Even if you are coaching a young travel team this should be manageable. The better teams have players scattered all over the state or surrounding states so practicing on a school night during the week isn't an option anyway. In reality you are practicing as a team once on the weekends and that should be manageable for a school coach. Work in some Sunday friendlies in April should also be manageable I would think.
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A lot of good posts in this thread.
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Wheres the "like" button?!?!?
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By the time I was finishing up running the Buckeye Heat, I had zero patience for parents complaining about coaches, unless it was about verbal abuse or anything else that no child should have to bear. I often reminded parents that they were paying zero for coaching and that didn't seem to stop them from saying that they were paying good money to be on this team and expected professional coaching.
Often it was the case that a coach wasn't even a parent and just enjoyed coaching. Even then, rarely would a parent let up once they started complaining. Think about that; you have a volunteer non-parent giving up all of his/her weekends all summer and a ton of time in the fall and winter, and usually hundreds or thousands of dollars just because it's hard to avoid spending your own money at times, and people still complain. What's next, people complaining about those who volunteer to work in hospitals or with the elderly?
Whenever I had parents complaining about volunteer coaches, I knew I was dealing with incredibly immature human beings who personified today's entitlement mentality.
Often it was the case that a coach wasn't even a parent and just enjoyed coaching. Even then, rarely would a parent let up once they started complaining. Think about that; you have a volunteer non-parent giving up all of his/her weekends all summer and a ton of time in the fall and winter, and usually hundreds or thousands of dollars just because it's hard to avoid spending your own money at times, and people still complain. What's next, people complaining about those who volunteer to work in hospitals or with the elderly?
Whenever I had parents complaining about volunteer coaches, I knew I was dealing with incredibly immature human beings who personified today's entitlement mentality.
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I'm glad you posted this, it's fantasic. The original poster needs to read your last 2 posts. They stated they are paying a lot of money for their DD to be coached. When actually they are paying very little for their DD to be coached, but paying a lot to play in tournaments.
The only weapon coaches have in handling petty things like this is their mouth. Most coaches do use it and next thing you know because of the parents the DD isn't wanted by anybody.
I have seen this act about a 100 times, problem or 2nd guessing travel coaches every year leads to problems and 2nd guessing high school coach leads to their DD watching softball in March-June instead of playing normally by their DD's Junior year.
Your immature human beings is dead on... Time to grow up and enjoy the ride, because it's short. Its funny ever have a kid that got rattled easily, was a poor teammate etc. Watch her parents. Then watch the parents of the kid having fun, calm under pressure and just playing the game with no fear of failure and watch her parents. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Parents either develop Ego-Driven or Task-Driven athletes, coaches from 10u all the way through high level college prefer task-Driven.
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I coach travel and high school. I am not going to lie, it certainly complicates things from March through May, but if you are willing to move your travel practices to Sundays, there really isn't much of a conflict.
For example, instead of practicing on Wednesdays or Fridays, my travel team will just practice for 3 - 4 hours on Sundays (on top of playing our Sunday league games). Essentially that is 6 hours of work...which is actually more than we do during the week now. For this arrangement to really work, though, you must have girls and parents who work on their own during the week. It also helps to keep in contact with the parents during the week to let them know what to work on.
For travel coaches, I definitely recommend getting involved in high school ball. Coaching softball 6 days a week really allows you to hone your coaching, especially when it comes to trying to teach and instruct fundamentals. Believe it or not, working with the less focused, less committed and less talented high school kids is a positive, because it forces you to step up your game and find ways to really motivate the girls, simplify your instruction and find ways to give your team an advantage outside of their individual softball talent - i.e. using substitution rules, small ball, etc.
I personally think that for travel coaches who are interested in coaching at the college level, a successful high school head coaching history helps tremendously, particularly if you are not a former collegiate softball player. I have seen very few non-collegiate softball players go on to coach at the collegiate level without first having high school head coaching experience - in particular, very successful high school head coaching experience (for example, coaching state championship teams). I am not saying it hasn't happened or doesn't happen, but if you are not a former collegiate softball player, then not having some sort of high school experience reduces your chances of coaching at the collegiate level.
In short, I think coaches with high ambitions should coach BOTH travel and high school. If he or she can do so without affecting the practice time of either team, then parents should be pleased they are getting such a dedicated and committed coach!
For example, instead of practicing on Wednesdays or Fridays, my travel team will just practice for 3 - 4 hours on Sundays (on top of playing our Sunday league games). Essentially that is 6 hours of work...which is actually more than we do during the week now. For this arrangement to really work, though, you must have girls and parents who work on their own during the week. It also helps to keep in contact with the parents during the week to let them know what to work on.
For travel coaches, I definitely recommend getting involved in high school ball. Coaching softball 6 days a week really allows you to hone your coaching, especially when it comes to trying to teach and instruct fundamentals. Believe it or not, working with the less focused, less committed and less talented high school kids is a positive, because it forces you to step up your game and find ways to really motivate the girls, simplify your instruction and find ways to give your team an advantage outside of their individual softball talent - i.e. using substitution rules, small ball, etc.
I personally think that for travel coaches who are interested in coaching at the college level, a successful high school head coaching history helps tremendously, particularly if you are not a former collegiate softball player. I have seen very few non-collegiate softball players go on to coach at the collegiate level without first having high school head coaching experience - in particular, very successful high school head coaching experience (for example, coaching state championship teams). I am not saying it hasn't happened or doesn't happen, but if you are not a former collegiate softball player, then not having some sort of high school experience reduces your chances of coaching at the collegiate level.
In short, I think coaches with high ambitions should coach BOTH travel and high school. If he or she can do so without affecting the practice time of either team, then parents should be pleased they are getting such a dedicated and committed coach!
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I coach travel and high school. I am not going to lie, it certainly complicates things from March through May, but if you are willing to move your travel practices to Sundays, there really isn't much of a conflict.
For example, instead of practicing on Wednesdays or Fridays, my travel team will just practice for 3 - 4 hours on Sundays (on top of playing our Sunday league games). Essentially that is 6 hours of work...which is actually more than we do during the week now. For this arrangement to really work, though, you must have girls and parents who work on their own during the week. It also helps to keep in contact with the parents during the week to let them know what to work on.
For travel coaches, I definitely recommend getting involved in high school ball. Coaching softball 6 days a week really allows you to hone your coaching, especially when it comes to trying to teach and instruct fundamentals. Believe it or not, working with the less focused, less committed and less talented high school kids is a positive, because it forces you to step up your game and find ways to really motivate the girls, simplify your instruction and find ways to give your team an advantage outside of their individual softball talent - i.e. using substitution rules, small ball, etc.
I personally think that for travel coaches who are interested in coaching at the college level, a successful high school head coaching history helps tremendously, particularly if you are not a former collegiate softball player. I have seen very few non-collegiate softball players go on to coach at the collegiate level without first having high school head coaching experience - in particular, very successful high school head coaching experience (for example, coaching state championship teams). I am not saying it hasn't happened or doesn't happen, but if you are not a former collegiate softball player, then not having some sort of high school experience reduces your chances of coaching at the collegiate level.
In short, I think coaches with high ambitions should coach BOTH travel and high school. If he or she can do so without affecting the practice time of either team, then parents should be pleased they are getting such a dedicated and committed coach!
Well said and totally agree!!!! You just said it in more words than me!!!!
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Joe ... your last post on this was even better and more spot on than the first.
As an example, I have been coaching for many years, and generally speaking have had very good experiences with players and parents. But my daughter and I had a really poor experience last summer co-coaching 16-U (I had no kids on the team). At some point or another, we had 9 of the 12 sets of parents of girls on the roster complaining about playing time, in spite of the fact that every girl got in every one of our games (with one exception one game) and the fact that we made sure, just as we promised upfront, that there would be a direct correlation between performance and playing time on Sundays. We spent several hundred hours each, and a couple thousand dollars in travel expenses, and promoted the heck out of our girls at showcases, and I was very disappointed and yes even a little hurt with the lack of appreciation.
I certainly don't coach for the appreciation ... I do it because I love the game and want to help kids, but that whole experience still leaves me scratching my head. Thankfully my daughter has taken it as a learning experience and hasn't given up her future plans around coaching. I just thought it would be a lot easier not having my own DD on the team ...
As an example, I have been coaching for many years, and generally speaking have had very good experiences with players and parents. But my daughter and I had a really poor experience last summer co-coaching 16-U (I had no kids on the team). At some point or another, we had 9 of the 12 sets of parents of girls on the roster complaining about playing time, in spite of the fact that every girl got in every one of our games (with one exception one game) and the fact that we made sure, just as we promised upfront, that there would be a direct correlation between performance and playing time on Sundays. We spent several hundred hours each, and a couple thousand dollars in travel expenses, and promoted the heck out of our girls at showcases, and I was very disappointed and yes even a little hurt with the lack of appreciation.
I certainly don't coach for the appreciation ... I do it because I love the game and want to help kids, but that whole experience still leaves me scratching my head. Thankfully my daughter has taken it as a learning experience and hasn't given up her future plans around coaching. I just thought it would be a lot easier not having my own DD on the team ...
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coachjwb:
Thanks for the thoughts. I think all of us have been exactly where you were at the end of last summer, wondering "what the heck, and why am I even doing this?" With that lack of appreciation you mentioned, on one hand you don't want to be a woe-is-me person, but at the same time it's just bewildering and leaves you wondering how people can so completely lack perspective and feel so entitled.
Thanks for the thoughts. I think all of us have been exactly where you were at the end of last summer, wondering "what the heck, and why am I even doing this?" With that lack of appreciation you mentioned, on one hand you don't want to be a woe-is-me person, but at the same time it's just bewildering and leaves you wondering how people can so completely lack perspective and feel so entitled.
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Joe,
I think that we all know that we are in the "entitlement" society now. Tell them up front that we don't believe in that junk and follow it up with action. I have no qualms at all telling a parent or player if they don't like it or appreciate it then go someone else. I have flatly refused to allow players in our program when the parents are "idiots". By Nov. 1st of this past year, I banned one parent from entering our training facility and banned him from within 100 feet of the dug out during practices or games. His daughter is still with us and doing much better and life is good for all concern. Obviously if this would not worked, they would have been asked to leave.
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It is for the very reasons mentioned in the two JoeA posts that I have cut back on my commitment to this fine game. I cut back my involvement this winter and I'll probably be a memory after the summer is over, simply because I am no longer going to subject myself to the disrespectful behavior of parents and players.
I don't regret the commitment I made to the game. I confident I've helped many more than I ever failed. Perhaps under different circumstances the spark will return. Perhaps I feel this way because I just had a birthday. lol. Perhaps it is simply time for some of those "entitlement mentality" people to walk a mile in the shoes of us that have cared so much for so long a time.
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Reading some of this gives me bad flashbacks. I miss the gems of kids and none of the rest. But don't let me discourage anyone.
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I guess we got slightly off topic but if a parent or two reads this thread and the light bulb goes on, it was worth it ...
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@daboss:
Ohio fastpitch travel ball will lose greatly when you "retire". But I absolutely understand your frustration. Few recognize the shenanigans and drama that travel ball coaches have to deal with, even when they don't have a daughter on the team. The stories we could tell . . . some of them pretty darn unbelievable.
Almost every fall I have to take a break from fastpitch and some years during that season I am trying to advocate to Ted that we should just walk away from the whole thing (that would certainly help our finances and give rise to at least 1,000 hours of free leisure, discretion time, that's for sure). But then there are the gem families and the gem players who always make my fall disaffection turn into excitement for the coming year. (Note to self, those gem families and players could use some props from me for their support; it's a two way street). I don't have any illusion that the gem families don't ever criticize us, perhaps even to other families. But there is a line of over-the-top drama and even back-stabbing that gets crossed so often by so many families when it comes to volunteer coaches; our gem families don't cross that line and I am forever grateful to them for that.
Ohio fastpitch travel ball will lose greatly when you "retire". But I absolutely understand your frustration. Few recognize the shenanigans and drama that travel ball coaches have to deal with, even when they don't have a daughter on the team. The stories we could tell . . . some of them pretty darn unbelievable.
Almost every fall I have to take a break from fastpitch and some years during that season I am trying to advocate to Ted that we should just walk away from the whole thing (that would certainly help our finances and give rise to at least 1,000 hours of free leisure, discretion time, that's for sure). But then there are the gem families and the gem players who always make my fall disaffection turn into excitement for the coming year. (Note to self, those gem families and players could use some props from me for their support; it's a two way street). I don't have any illusion that the gem families don't ever criticize us, perhaps even to other families. But there is a line of over-the-top drama and even back-stabbing that gets crossed so often by so many families when it comes to volunteer coaches; our gem families don't cross that line and I am forever grateful to them for that.
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Whenever I had parents complaining about volunteer coaches, I knew I was dealing with incredibly immature human beings who personified today's entitlement mentality.
Amen Brother
Amen Brother
