Travel team practice during high school

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Is this OHSAA rule covering just softball? Meaning can you play JO Volleyball and high school softball at the same time?

 

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I have always supported high school ball. It is very different from travel ball and really both have an impact on how our daughter's grow as players. Go to the high school section and read softballmom009's post about her daughter's first day of high school practice. That is the reason for high school ball. I am just wondering how many of you that are complaining about high school ball have had the chance to experience it first hand. It is a "kick" the first time your daughter is in the paper. The sense of team and community is something different from travel ball. Wave Rider is right about the support from community. You would be surprised at how many people will go to watch a state game. Our 80+ year old neighbor's were at the state tournament the past two years. It is fun. Something to enjoy. I have loved high school ball and am very sorry this is our last season. My daughter has always worked outside of high school practice on her skills. I think every serious player does. I am reading how all you dads sit on buckets and do soft toss etc....and get injured..lol!!! Honestly, enjoy high school ball. It goes by fast.

 

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Would you let your son play both HS and club football at same time?

I would not, but why make it a rule that others can't? You should not legislate out the opportunity for parents/players to make both good and poor decisions.

We ask our players during our season - after the first tourney - to not play as pickup players for other teams. Why? Because our TB teams have been in place since last August and have trained all winter as a team .. once the season starts for the team - it is unfair for all the players on the team that worked hard all winter to have the team negatively affected by a key player getting injured playing for another org. The coach of the team can make exceptions if a player / parent appeals. We play 7 out of 8 weekends anyway in June/July, we want the kids to have a week off to 'recover', not go risk injury. We have never really had any push back from this.. outside the season, np, play where you like. As for other sports, in season Softball comes first - if they play something else, they can not miss 1 softball practice, game, etc for that sport - otherwise - it is their call.

 

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I don't understand the coaches who get on a high horse & announce "No Practice with Travel team" before they even finish tryouts. If OHSAA allows it till first game, scrimmage, preview - then they should be fine with that.
If a girl is playing a fall or winter sport, we all expect the girl to show up for the Sunday team workout while they have spent the entire week doing the other sport. No matter what the sport - don't see why someone would now think that a Select practice once a week is too much till games start. Same if the girl just spent 3 hours a day, 6 days a week playing BB in January - should they be told they don't need to show to winter workouts???? All the same.....

And I believe that while OHSAA is out there in many situations, they do have to keep the standards the same for all sports. And most of these rules are in place for those who would be taking advantage of the next Kobe, Lebron, OJ Mayo, etc. So they do set some wierd rules up across the board for all....

This attitude why there is so much hostility. For 3 month and 10 days they play hs ball. The rest of the year they are with their tb teams. So who is on their high horse? Learn to respect each other and you won't have these problems.

 

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Is this OHSAA rule covering just softball? Meaning can you play JO Volleyball and high school softball at the same time?

No, the rule is the same for all sports

 

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No, the rule is the same for all sports

So you couldn't legally play J.O Volleyball and high school SOFTBALL at the same time?

 

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Actually, I am not sure... the softball rules state a player can play non-school slowpitch with the coaches/school permission. BUT.. it also says it does not recognize slowpitch as a sport .. so I would guess that a OHS recognized sport is not allowable. Section 4.4 of the rules.

 

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All,
I sent OHSAA an email yesterday, asking not for a clarification of the rule, but as WHY they rule is in place. I got the reply this morning. I have attached the reply from OHSAA as well. for what it is worth:
Non-Interscholastic Participation
4.1) A member of an interscholastic softball squad (any student who has played
in a scrimmage,
preview or regular season/tournament game as a substitute or starter) sponsored
by the Board of Education or other governing board shall not participate in a
non-interscholastic program (tryouts, practice or contest) as an individual or
as a
member of a team in the sport of softball during the school's season .

Ms. Price,

I know you have been asked this question before, I'm sure, but I do not
understand, nor have I ever heard a reason for the above rule.

Would you be kind enough to explain to me the decision making process behind the
drafting of this rule, the basis for it, and lastly why it is in effect. Please

Thank you for your time in advance,


Her Reply:
Your last two questions would pretty much yield the same response.

The rule has been in effect much longer than I have been at the OHSAA. We
believe in "educational athletics" and the value that school based programs have
on young people. If you really follow, let's say AAU basketball, many games are
played without trainers and without regard to game limitations, etc. I believe,
we believe students should not be playing a sport 24/7. It leads to overuse
injuries. Participation by member schools in the OHSAA is voluntary as is
participation in school sports by students.

If you were a school coach would you really want to be teaching your students
one thing, only to have it possibly contradicted by another coach. Would you
also want the possibility of injury? You now in the NFL, some players have
clauses in regard to what activities they are permitted even in the off season,
that have nothing to do with their sports (like riding motorcycles).

In softball every student has the possibility to play in 27 contests, not 27
contests and 10 travel contests for this player, and 27 contests and 16 for this
player, etc.

Our bylaws are voted in place by our member schools and our sports regulations
are currently voted on by our Board of Directors, who happen to be members of
the teaching profession...superintendents, principals, and AD's. Prior to a
couple of years ago, sports regulations such as the one you mention above was in
the bylaw section of the Handbook, which meant that it became a bylaw by vote of
our member school principals. As an OHSAA administrator I don't have the
opportunity to vote on bylaws, I just assist in the enforcement of whatever
regulations have been passed or approved.

What I have indicated is totally my opinion, but I don?t' think I am off base
and I have no problem understanding why there is a non-interscholastic rule. A
student is not a member of a school team until he/she actually participates in a
contest. The school season is not extremely long, giving students almost 3/4 of
a year to participate in non-interscholastic activities. We also do not
restrict "individual instruction" during the season, but the school coaching
staff may, again so there is no conflict in coaching styles or to limit overuse
of a muscle/tendon, etc.

Regards,
Roxanne

 

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So you couldn't legally play J.O Volleyball and high school SOFTBALL at the same time?

I missed read your quote and I believe the stupid rule allow them to play a hs sport and a different club sport at the same time. But it has been a while since I read the rule.

 

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This is also a rule that was written long before the explosion of club sports.It is there to protect "all" athletes. Yes, you could play HS softball and "jo" volleyball as long as the HS coach allows it.
In ******, you will find several top players never playing HS ******. Mich and Ind. both have Spring ****** seasons. So many of the top clubs will roster teams to play Fall regional tourneys in those states.Our HS ****** coach just recently stated, to play ****** at our school, you not only have to play club ******, but listed teams that were accepted.

 

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fpdad-thank you! The last paragraph brings alot of clarity concerning individual instruction.

 

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6.3) Participating in Non-Interscholastic Programs – Team Sports – A member of an interscholastic
squad sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board in a
team sport (Baseball, Basketball, Field Hockey, Football, Ice Hockey, ******, Softball and
Volleyball) shall not participate in an athletic contest, tryouts or any type of team or group training or practices on a non-interscholastic squad in a team sport in the same sport during the school’s interscholastic sports season.
6.4) Participating in Non-Interscholastic Programs – Individual Sports – A member of an
interscholastic squad sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board in an
individual sport (Bowling, Gymnastics, Tennis, Golf, Swimming and Diving, Cross Country,
Track and Field and Wrestling) shall not participate in a contest on a non-interscholastic
squad in the same sport during the school’s interscholastic sports season.
6.5) Participating in Non-Interscholastic Programs Outside the Interscholastic Season –
Team Sports – A member of an interscholastic squad in a team sport sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board may participate in non-interscholastic contests, tryouts, training or practices prior to, and after, the school’s interscholastic season under the following conditions:
a) The number of interscholastic squad members from the same school on the non-interscholastic
squad is limited to a maximum of 50% of the members of a team as defined in
the playing rules of the sport. From June 1 through July 31 (in the sports of baseball and
softball, the period is the Friday before Memorial Day-May 25 in 2012-through July 31)
this restriction is not in effect, provided the squad members have concluded their school
season. The 50% limitation is defined as follows for all OHSAA recognized team sports.
50% Limitation on Sport Number of squad members
Baseball 4
Basketball 2
Field Hockey 5
Football 5
****** 5
Softball 4
Volleyball 3
b) An interscholastic squad member may continue participation with a non-interscholastic
squad in a national qualifying tournament after July 31 until the squad is eliminated
from the national qualifying tournament but no later than Labor Day.
c) Graduating seniors who are participating on a non-interscholastic squad after their final
interscholastic contest in a season in the same sport are exempt from this limitation.
d) Ice Hockey shall use a five player limitation.
6.6) Participating in Non-Interscholastic Programs Outside the Interscholastic Season –
Individual Sports – A member of an interscholastic squad in an individual sport sponsored
by the Board of Education or other governing board may participate in non-interscholastic
contests, tryouts, training or practices prior to, and after, the school’s interscholastic season with no restriction except as stipulated in regulation 6.11 – Members of the Interscholastic Coaching Staff.

 

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@magic12u:

If your post is directed at me, I don't advocate the elimination of scholastic sports and I don't underestimate the importance of HS ball for a player. (I absolutely loved it when our DD got local newspaper coverage; what a kick).

And if you think that all travel ball coaches don't give a rat's about academics, I can tell you two who believe that academics are crucial and who preach the same to their players. Those two coaches, BTW, have the following degrees: a B.A. from Stanford, a J.D. from the University of Virginia, and a B.A. from Wesleyan Connecticut and a PhD from Stanford.

I don't know why the relationship between high school ball coaches and travel ball coaches needs to be so hostile. But I'm also not going to just shut up when someone suggests that a good travel ball team couldn't beat a HS JV team. Or when a high school coach suggests that all travel ball coaches consider their players athletes instead of student-athletes.

Not directed at you personally CGS, this has been my general experience. I've been coaching high school varsity sports for 20+ years now. In the last 10 years I have seen more and more of the disturbing situation where a student is academically inelegible to participate in their respective high school sport, but then they go and play travel/tournament sports with no-recourse. I blame this primarily on the parents for permitting their child to have this kind of priveledge when they are making poor choices in their life and school, but the bottom line is that none of the national sanctioning bodies have any academic progress/status policy. A child with a 0.426 gpa can still play AAU basketball or a 0.9745 can still play travel softball. I'm sure that there are some TB coaches that very much do stress academic progress, but honestly, that is the exception and not the rule. How many TB coached actively follow up on their players report cards, and progress reports; ask the student or her parents how school is going and actively work to ensure the family is taking the proper steps so the child can get through the NCAA clearing house, and be able to move into a post-secondary program. All that stuff is in the first paragraph of my job description, as it is for most of my professional colleagues. The skills and gamesmanship the girls learn from travel/tournament ball is tremendous and does make a difference for my program, but I will not accept that it's only the travel programs that get a student-athlete to the post-secondary level.

As explaned to me personally by Roxanne Price,the OHSAA rule is simply this, I'll relate it to softball. A scholastic softball player may not participate in group or team activities including practices, drills, or contests with a non-scholastic team in the same sport during from the first day of the season until the last game of the season has been completed. Doing so would result in forfieture of any game in which that player played at least one pitch defensivley or received one pitch as a batter. That student-athelte will also lose her eligibility for the remainder of the season, and the coach may face up to a two game suspension.

I'm not saying the rule is right or wrong, good or bad, but that's the rule. I'm sure there are ways that people cheat on this rule all the time. I will not tolerate it in my program, I will not permit the selfishness of one player ruin everything the team has worked for all season. It's the rule in Ohio, it is not the rule in other states, we can't help either, we just have to live with it and all do our best in the best interets of these yong people...if that's not your primary focus, then your in the wrong vocation.

 

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As many knows you can play high school softball and JO volleyball at the same time. We ran into that last spring with the 15u JO tournament.
Last year the dd had a DH at Lexington High and right after the 2nd softball game ended we rushed off to Maumee so she could play in the volleyball tournament there. She played in two matches that early evening.

Softball is not a money making sport by any means (free admission til tournament time). You wonder how soon that would change even though at several high schools it would be almost impossible to collect gate fees.

 

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Flarays and JoeA,

Perhaps my prior post came across with an apathetic flavor but for you that have been on OFC a long time or from the glory days of jjhuddle, you'll know I have championed for change in the OHSAA for years. I've always felt they have abused their authority in regards to the individual rights of the family structure. How dare they believe we don't know enough about parenting to make good choices for our family! I hate they believe they have the right to regiment our free time.

I've been on my soapbox on this very topic many times over the years. I've tried to contact the OHSAA committee and had no response. Years ago, I bombarded them with calls and emails that were never answered. I've gone as far as contacting my State Senator Chris Widener and State Representative Bob Hackett to see if there is anything that can be done thru legislature to erase this problem. So far I've only heard there's nothing I can do about it.

As you can tell, this topic really gets under my skin. In the beginning, I did not sit back and accept what OHSAA created. I went out and fought for our rights as parents. I guess it is with disgust that I printed my first post. Disgust because I feel I've done all I can do and I suspect it'll remain this way for a long time.

Someone once answered a post of mine saying I need to give up the fight and accept the rules as just that-----rules. The fact that I'm saying to accept things doesn't mean I agree with it. I conformed because I had to-------not because I want to.

By the way; you are two of the better coaches I've come to know over the years from OFC, jjhuddle, NFCC, and on the field. It is with the utmost respect that I responded to your posts. Some times my true feelings are hard to understand. A computer and keyboard in my hands is like a loaded gun in the hands of a mad man. lol.

What great post - and your experience is a barometer for us all. There is NO justification for the rule as it is written. But as you have found out the hard way you simply can't fight city hall. Thanks for your efforts and long standing committment.

Without continueing this I will point out one more thing that is being written here - and gone almost unnoticed. Because this rule exists it now is allowing HS coaches to dictate the training and other after hours recreation that the kids are allowed to do. It is a shame. But as daboss points out - fighting it is a waste of time.

 

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Would you let your son play both HS and club football at same time?

This year my DD is a freshman. She plays year round softball & I gotta say I'm kinda liking the break from TB. I drive her an hour to practice for TB & the school is 5 mins away.

I get to plan what I want to do on weekends for a while.

I also feel that it gives some time to "miss" TB for both of us.

 

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Flay Rays
Are you kidding me, and tb coaches dont dictate-give me a break buddy. My kid has played tb since she was 10 and to say what you did is being nothing more than a hypocrite. I will say this, there are some people on here who would make great politicians.

Some of you can think that my view is slanted all you want, I have had the privelage of watching my dd play varsity ball here in Greenville since she was a freshman, she is a senior this year and sadly it is almost over but the support from her classmates and the commnity at large has been a wonderful thing to watch as a parent. Travel ball made her a better player for sure and also got her ready to be a 4 year starter on varsity and I could not be prouder of her.

By the way she quit playing tb last summer to get a break and guess what, the colleges were still talking to her about playing ball. Maybe you dont have to play tb to get noticed by a college, just some food for thought.

 

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This is the response I got today from OHSAA on all of this:

Your email in regard to the non-interscholastic softball regulation was forwarded to me. I am just forwarding the email dialogue I had today in regard to this question.
As it seems you share the same concern as the gentleman who emailed earlier, I have included the entire email correspondence but have removed the identifying information.

You will want to start from the bottom and read "up"

Thank you!
Roxanne

Roxanne Price, Assistant Commissioner

Original Message
From: Roxanne Price rprice@ohsaa.org


The U.S Constitution deals with property rights, and some of the things stated in the Constitution when it was first enacted should have given all persons equal rights, but when it seemed that some things did not apply to women or minorities, then you had additional bills.

There is no property right when it comes to sports participation. Your daughter's school could discontinue all sports programs next year or discontinue a portion of them as the school district nor Board of Education are under any obligation to sponsor a sports program. We have member schools that do not offer softball. Many do not offer all 24 sports sanctioned by the OHSAA. Your daughter has a right to take English, but not to play softball.

I don?t' know the "long time" to which you refer. I indicated the rule was in effect as long as I have been here...I have been here six years.

I did not suggest or infer that school coaches are better coaches, but I do know that school coaches are required to obtain a Pupil Activity Supervisor Permit as instructed by the State Department of Education and member school coaches are also required to take the courses offered by the National Federation of High Schools. Non -school coaches have no such requirement. Would you even know if your travel coach knows first aid?

I have no doubt you have an opinion about OHSAA regulations. That message was conveyed in your initial email. You are entitled to your opinion and I take no offense. I have been doing this for a long time.

Being on this side of the desk, I can tell you that most schools did not know that a t-shirt at an open house was not permitted. Even the t-shirt has limitations. As can be said at any level of sport, you cannot regulate/legislate ethics. Just as you speak of the tokens, it would be easier to regulate a token than a once a week practice with a travel coach. Would not both rely on the ethics of the individuals involved?

I will conclude that I wholly disagree with your statement that a school coach who does not coach a travel team is in it for the pay. As a pretty decent student-athlete, I never had any desire to coach, and that has not lessened my love for any of the sports in which I participated. I think your statement speaks to the unbalanced nature of sports in our society, and the devotion paid to sports by individuals, at the expense of other endeavors. As an individual involved professionally in sports at the high school and collegiate level, at three Division I institutions and a community college, I know firsthand of what I speak.

In regard to other states, I can name more than five states that charge their member schools a membership fee, and also an activity fee for each sport registered with their association. These states in no way pay for a catastrophic insurance policy that covers all its member schools at a cost in excess of $750,000. These states also do not provide any type of reimbursement of tournament expenses, such as the OHSAA does. While participation in college athletics is not mentioned anywhere in the OHSAA mission statement, Ohio high school athletes seem to hold their own at the college level and the regulation(s) is in effect for all team sports. Football has the most restrictive regulations of all OHSAA sports and no one would say Ohio is not in the 21st century when it comes to football.

I understand you are a father looking out for your daughter. I am simply an Assistant Commissioner responsible for applying the rules to all 350,000 + students who participate in athletics in an Ohio member school.
Regards,
Roxanne


Roxanne Price, Assistant Commissioner

Original Message
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 12:32 PM
To: Roxanne Price
Subject: RE: Rules Question

Ms. Price,

Thank you for the reply. That does explain a few things. although I think if the rule has been in place THAT long, maybe it is time for some of those "Old" rules to revisited. For example... the US constitution has been added to and changed throughout the course of the our Countries life time.

I agree with playing overload, however, I would not have an issue with my daughter whom plays both travel ball and school ball both, having the ability to practice with her travel team once a week through the school season. Playing in tournaments yeah I would agree with you.

On another note, you mentioned or maybe I mis read your intent, but it seems to me that you are implying that School coaches have more experience in coaching softball that Travel coaches do.

I'm not sure on the content of that is or not implying that, but I will tell you that from my experience, if the High School coach is not a travel coach in the summer season, they most likely are doing it for the money and not the love of the game. In my experience Travel Coaches spend countless hours, FOR NO PAY AT ALL. I have seen NO college coaches at HS games at least not until play off season roles around. Why? Because the HS school program allows ALL kids the chance to be on the team, despite her ability. Sure that is fun but it becomes a political issue when you start having that father whom thinks is daughter is a better pitcher than Jennie Finch and should be pitching every game, when in fact she would not even make a summer travel team.

In closing, you I feel you have hit the nail squarely on the head, the fact that this rule have been in place for a long time. I think if OHSAA wants to keep up with the times,continue to provide a quality program for the Student -Athletes they need to spend a little more time, reviewing the antiquated rules, and not worry so much about if a child can move from one school to another with in the same district as long as these 4 rules are met first. Further more, I see that schools now can give a "perspective student transfer" a token of less than $20, we need to really be careful with that... or it too will turn in to a tattoo scandal.

Thank you again for your time, please understand that I am not mad, or upset with this. I know of at least 5 other states that have nothing like this rules in their HSAA rule book, It's time for Ohio to move from the 19th Century and into the 21st.

Roxanne Price
Mr XXXX:
Your last two questions would pretty much yield the same response.

The rule has been in effect much longer than I have been at the OHSAA. We believe in "educational athletics" and the value that school based programs have on young people. If you really follow, let's say AAU basketball, many games are played without trainers and without regard to game limitations, etc. I believe, we believe students should not be playing a sport 24/7. It leads to overuse injuries. Participation by member schools in the OHSAA is voluntary as is participation in school sports by students.

If you were a school coach would you really want to be teaching your students one thing, only to have it possibly contradicted by another coach. Would you also want the possibility of injury? You now in the NFL, some players have clauses in regard to what activities they are permitted even in the off season, that have nothing to do with their sports (like riding motorcycles).

In softball every student has the possibility to play in 27 contests, not 27 contests and 10 travel contests for this player, and 27 contests and 16 for this player, etc.

Our bylaws are voted in place by our member schools and our sports regulations are currently voted on by our Board of Directors, who happen to be members of the teaching profession...superintendents, principals, and AD's. Prior to a couple of years ago, sports regulations such as the one you mention above was in the bylaw section of the Handbook, which meant that it became a bylaw by vote of our member school principals. As an OHSAA administrator I don't have the opportunity to vote on bylaws, I just assist in the enforcement of whatever regulations have been passed or approved.

What I have indicated is totally my opinion, but I don?t' think I am off base and I have no problem understanding why there is a non-interscholastic rule. A student is not a member of a school team until he/she actually participates in a contest. The school season is not extremely long, giving students almost 3/4 of a year to participate in non-interscholastic activities. We also do not restrict "individual instruction" during the season, but the school coaching staff may, again so there is no conflict in coaching styles or to limit overuse of a muscle/tendon, etc.

Regards,
Roxanne


Roxanne Price, Assistant Commissioner

-----Original Message-----
From: > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 12:39 AM
To: rprice@ohsaa.org
Subject: Rules Question

Non-Interscholastic Participation
Ms. Price,

I know you have been asked this question before, I'm sure, but I do not understand, nor have I ever heard a reason for the above rule.

Would you be kind enough to explain to me the decision making process behind the drafting of this rule, the basis for it, and lastly why it is in effect. Please

Thank you for your time in advance,

Parent of Daughter

 

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I really thought there would be an easy answer.....................

 

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This is the response I got today from OHSAA on all of this:

Your email in regard to the non-interscholastic softball regulation was forwarded to me. I am just forwarding the email dialogue I had today in regard to this question.
As it seems you share the same concern as the gentleman who emailed earlier, I have included the entire email correspondence but have removed the identifying information.

You will want to start from the bottom and read "up"

Thank you!
Roxanne

Roxanne Price, Assistant Commissioner

Original Message
From: Roxanne Price rprice@ohsaa.org


The U.S Constitution deals with property rights, and some of the things stated in the Constitution when it was first enacted should have given all persons equal rights, but when it seemed that some things did not apply to women or minorities, then you had additional bills.

There is no property right when it comes to sports participation. Your daughter's school could discontinue all sports programs next year or discontinue a portion of them as the school district nor Board of Education are under any obligation to sponsor a sports program. We have member schools that do not offer softball. Many do not offer all 24 sports sanctioned by the OHSAA. Your daughter has a right to take English, but not to play softball.

I don?t' know the "long time" to which you refer. I indicated the rule was in effect as long as I have been here...I have been here six years.

I did not suggest or infer that school coaches are better coaches, but I do know that school coaches are required to obtain a Pupil Activity Supervisor Permit as instructed by the State Department of Education and member school coaches are also required to take the courses offered by the National Federation of High Schools. Non -school coaches have no such requirement. Would you even know if your travel coach knows first aid?

I have no doubt you have an opinion about OHSAA regulations. That message was conveyed in your initial email. You are entitled to your opinion and I take no offense. I have been doing this for a long time.

Being on this side of the desk, I can tell you that most schools did not know that a t-shirt at an open house was not permitted. Even the t-shirt has limitations. As can be said at any level of sport, you cannot regulate/legislate ethics. Just as you speak of the tokens, it would be easier to regulate a token than a once a week practice with a travel coach. Would not both rely on the ethics of the individuals involved?

I will conclude that I wholly disagree with your statement that a school coach who does not coach a travel team is in it for the pay. As a pretty decent student-athlete, I never had any desire to coach, and that has not lessened my love for any of the sports in which I participated. I think your statement speaks to the unbalanced nature of sports in our society, and the devotion paid to sports by individuals, at the expense of other endeavors. As an individual involved professionally in sports at the high school and collegiate level, at three Division I institutions and a community college, I know firsthand of what I speak.

In regard to other states, I can name more than five states that charge their member schools a membership fee, and also an activity fee for each sport registered with their association. These states in no way pay for a catastrophic insurance policy that covers all its member schools at a cost in excess of $750,000. These states also do not provide any type of reimbursement of tournament expenses, such as the OHSAA does. While participation in college athletics is not mentioned anywhere in the OHSAA mission statement, Ohio high school athletes seem to hold their own at the college level and the regulation(s) is in effect for all team sports. Football has the most restrictive regulations of all OHSAA sports and no one would say Ohio is not in the 21st century when it comes to football.

I understand you are a father looking out for your daughter. I am simply an Assistant Commissioner responsible for applying the rules to all 350,000 + students who participate in athletics in an Ohio member school.
Regards,
Roxanne


Roxanne Price, Assistant Commissioner

Original Message
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 12:32 PM
To: Roxanne Price
Subject: RE: Rules Question

Ms. Price,

Thank you for the reply. That does explain a few things. although I think if the rule has been in place THAT long, maybe it is time for some of those "Old" rules to revisited. For example... the US constitution has been added to and changed throughout the course of the our Countries life time.

I agree with playing overload, however, I would not have an issue with my daughter whom plays both travel ball and school ball both, having the ability to practice with her travel team once a week through the school season. Playing in tournaments yeah I would agree with you.

On another note, you mentioned or maybe I mis read your intent, but it seems to me that you are implying that School coaches have more experience in coaching softball that Travel coaches do.

I'm not sure on the content of that is or not implying that, but I will tell you that from my experience, if the High School coach is not a travel coach in the summer season, they most likely are doing it for the money and not the love of the game. In my experience Travel Coaches spend countless hours, FOR NO PAY AT ALL. I have seen NO college coaches at HS games at least not until play off season roles around. Why? Because the HS school program allows ALL kids the chance to be on the team, despite her ability. Sure that is fun but it becomes a political issue when you start having that father whom thinks is daughter is a better pitcher than Jennie Finch and should be pitching every game, when in fact she would not even make a summer travel team.

In closing, you I feel you have hit the nail squarely on the head, the fact that this rule have been in place for a long time. I think if OHSAA wants to keep up with the times,continue to provide a quality program for the Student -Athletes they need to spend a little more time, reviewing the antiquated rules, and not worry so much about if a child can move from one school to another with in the same district as long as these 4 rules are met first. Further more, I see that schools now can give a "perspective student transfer" a token of less than $20, we need to really be careful with that... or it too will turn in to a tattoo scandal.

Thank you again for your time, please understand that I am not mad, or upset with this. I know of at least 5 other states that have nothing like this rules in their HSAA rule book, It's time for Ohio to move from the 19th Century and into the 21st.

Roxanne Price
Mr XXXX:
Your last two questions would pretty much yield the same response.

The rule has been in effect much longer than I have been at the OHSAA. We believe in "educational athletics" and the value that school based programs have on young people. If you really follow, let's say AAU basketball, many games are played without trainers and without regard to game limitations, etc. I believe, we believe students should not be playing a sport 24/7. It leads to overuse injuries. Participation by member schools in the OHSAA is voluntary as is participation in school sports by students.

If you were a school coach would you really want to be teaching your students one thing, only to have it possibly contradicted by another coach. Would you also want the possibility of injury? You now in the NFL, some players have clauses in regard to what activities they are permitted even in the off season, that have nothing to do with their sports (like riding motorcycles).

In softball every student has the possibility to play in 27 contests, not 27 contests and 10 travel contests for this player, and 27 contests and 16 for this player, etc.

Our bylaws are voted in place by our member schools and our sports regulations are currently voted on by our Board of Directors, who happen to be members of the teaching profession...superintendents, principals, and AD's. Prior to a couple of years ago, sports regulations such as the one you mention above was in the bylaw section of the Handbook, which meant that it became a bylaw by vote of our member school principals. As an OHSAA administrator I don't have the opportunity to vote on bylaws, I just assist in the enforcement of whatever regulations have been passed or approved.

What I have indicated is totally my opinion, but I don?t' think I am off base and I have no problem understanding why there is a non-interscholastic rule. A student is not a member of a school team until he/she actually participates in a contest. The school season is not extremely long, giving students almost 3/4 of a year to participate in non-interscholastic activities. We also do not restrict "individual instruction" during the season, but the school coaching staff may, again so there is no conflict in coaching styles or to limit overuse of a muscle/tendon, etc.

Regards,
Roxanne


Roxanne Price, Assistant Commissioner

-----Original Message-----
From: > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 12:39 AM
To: rprice@ohsaa.org
Subject: Rules Question

Non-Interscholastic Participation
Ms. Price,

I know you have been asked this question before, I'm sure, but I do not understand, nor have I ever heard a reason for the above rule.

Would you be kind enough to explain to me the decision making process behind the drafting of this rule, the basis for it, and lastly why it is in effect. Please

Thank you for your time in advance,

Parent of Daughter

thanks for sharing this email string.