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Is this OHSAA rule covering just softball? Meaning can you play JO Volleyball and high school softball at the same time?
I would not, but why make it a rule that others can't? You should not legislate out the opportunity for parents/players to make both good and poor decisions.Would you let your son play both HS and club football at same time?
I don't understand the coaches who get on a high horse & announce "No Practice with Travel team" before they even finish tryouts. If OHSAA allows it till first game, scrimmage, preview - then they should be fine with that.
If a girl is playing a fall or winter sport, we all expect the girl to show up for the Sunday team workout while they have spent the entire week doing the other sport. No matter what the sport - don't see why someone would now think that a Select practice once a week is too much till games start. Same if the girl just spent 3 hours a day, 6 days a week playing BB in January - should they be told they don't need to show to winter workouts???? All the same.....
And I believe that while OHSAA is out there in many situations, they do have to keep the standards the same for all sports. And most of these rules are in place for those who would be taking advantage of the next Kobe, Lebron, OJ Mayo, etc. So they do set some wierd rules up across the board for all....
Is this OHSAA rule covering just softball? Meaning can you play JO Volleyball and high school softball at the same time?
No, the rule is the same for all sports
So you couldn't legally play J.O Volleyball and high school SOFTBALL at the same time?
@magic12u:
If your post is directed at me, I don't advocate the elimination of scholastic sports and I don't underestimate the importance of HS ball for a player. (I absolutely loved it when our DD got local newspaper coverage; what a kick).
And if you think that all travel ball coaches don't give a rat's about academics, I can tell you two who believe that academics are crucial and who preach the same to their players. Those two coaches, BTW, have the following degrees: a B.A. from Stanford, a J.D. from the University of Virginia, and a B.A. from Wesleyan Connecticut and a PhD from Stanford.
I don't know why the relationship between high school ball coaches and travel ball coaches needs to be so hostile. But I'm also not going to just shut up when someone suggests that a good travel ball team couldn't beat a HS JV team. Or when a high school coach suggests that all travel ball coaches consider their players athletes instead of student-athletes.
Flarays and JoeA,
Perhaps my prior post came across with an apathetic flavor but for you that have been on OFC a long time or from the glory days of jjhuddle, you'll know I have championed for change in the OHSAA for years. I've always felt they have abused their authority in regards to the individual rights of the family structure. How dare they believe we don't know enough about parenting to make good choices for our family! I hate they believe they have the right to regiment our free time.
I've been on my soapbox on this very topic many times over the years. I've tried to contact the OHSAA committee and had no response. Years ago, I bombarded them with calls and emails that were never answered. I've gone as far as contacting my State Senator Chris Widener and State Representative Bob Hackett to see if there is anything that can be done thru legislature to erase this problem. So far I've only heard there's nothing I can do about it.
As you can tell, this topic really gets under my skin. In the beginning, I did not sit back and accept what OHSAA created. I went out and fought for our rights as parents. I guess it is with disgust that I printed my first post. Disgust because I feel I've done all I can do and I suspect it'll remain this way for a long time.
Someone once answered a post of mine saying I need to give up the fight and accept the rules as just that-----rules. The fact that I'm saying to accept things doesn't mean I agree with it. I conformed because I had to-------not because I want to.
By the way; you are two of the better coaches I've come to know over the years from OFC, jjhuddle, NFCC, and on the field. It is with the utmost respect that I responded to your posts. Some times my true feelings are hard to understand. A computer and keyboard in my hands is like a loaded gun in the hands of a mad man. lol.
Would you let your son play both HS and club football at same time?
This is the response I got today from OHSAA on all of this:
Your email in regard to the non-interscholastic softball regulation was forwarded to me. I am just forwarding the email dialogue I had today in regard to this question.
As it seems you share the same concern as the gentleman who emailed earlier, I have included the entire email correspondence but have removed the identifying information.
You will want to start from the bottom and read "up"
Thank you!
Roxanne
Roxanne Price, Assistant Commissioner
Original Message
From: Roxanne Price rprice@ohsaa.org
The U.S Constitution deals with property rights, and some of the things stated in the Constitution when it was first enacted should have given all persons equal rights, but when it seemed that some things did not apply to women or minorities, then you had additional bills.
There is no property right when it comes to sports participation. Your daughter's school could discontinue all sports programs next year or discontinue a portion of them as the school district nor Board of Education are under any obligation to sponsor a sports program. We have member schools that do not offer softball. Many do not offer all 24 sports sanctioned by the OHSAA. Your daughter has a right to take English, but not to play softball.
I don?t' know the "long time" to which you refer. I indicated the rule was in effect as long as I have been here...I have been here six years.
I did not suggest or infer that school coaches are better coaches, but I do know that school coaches are required to obtain a Pupil Activity Supervisor Permit as instructed by the State Department of Education and member school coaches are also required to take the courses offered by the National Federation of High Schools. Non -school coaches have no such requirement. Would you even know if your travel coach knows first aid?
I have no doubt you have an opinion about OHSAA regulations. That message was conveyed in your initial email. You are entitled to your opinion and I take no offense. I have been doing this for a long time.
Being on this side of the desk, I can tell you that most schools did not know that a t-shirt at an open house was not permitted. Even the t-shirt has limitations. As can be said at any level of sport, you cannot regulate/legislate ethics. Just as you speak of the tokens, it would be easier to regulate a token than a once a week practice with a travel coach. Would not both rely on the ethics of the individuals involved?
I will conclude that I wholly disagree with your statement that a school coach who does not coach a travel team is in it for the pay. As a pretty decent student-athlete, I never had any desire to coach, and that has not lessened my love for any of the sports in which I participated. I think your statement speaks to the unbalanced nature of sports in our society, and the devotion paid to sports by individuals, at the expense of other endeavors. As an individual involved professionally in sports at the high school and collegiate level, at three Division I institutions and a community college, I know firsthand of what I speak.
In regard to other states, I can name more than five states that charge their member schools a membership fee, and also an activity fee for each sport registered with their association. These states in no way pay for a catastrophic insurance policy that covers all its member schools at a cost in excess of $750,000. These states also do not provide any type of reimbursement of tournament expenses, such as the OHSAA does. While participation in college athletics is not mentioned anywhere in the OHSAA mission statement, Ohio high school athletes seem to hold their own at the college level and the regulation(s) is in effect for all team sports. Football has the most restrictive regulations of all OHSAA sports and no one would say Ohio is not in the 21st century when it comes to football.
I understand you are a father looking out for your daughter. I am simply an Assistant Commissioner responsible for applying the rules to all 350,000 + students who participate in athletics in an Ohio member school.
Regards,
Roxanne
Roxanne Price, Assistant Commissioner
Original Message
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 12:32 PM
To: Roxanne Price
Subject: RE: Rules Question
Ms. Price,
Thank you for the reply. That does explain a few things. although I think if the rule has been in place THAT long, maybe it is time for some of those "Old" rules to revisited. For example... the US constitution has been added to and changed throughout the course of the our Countries life time.
I agree with playing overload, however, I would not have an issue with my daughter whom plays both travel ball and school ball both, having the ability to practice with her travel team once a week through the school season. Playing in tournaments yeah I would agree with you.
On another note, you mentioned or maybe I mis read your intent, but it seems to me that you are implying that School coaches have more experience in coaching softball that Travel coaches do.
I'm not sure on the content of that is or not implying that, but I will tell you that from my experience, if the High School coach is not a travel coach in the summer season, they most likely are doing it for the money and not the love of the game. In my experience Travel Coaches spend countless hours, FOR NO PAY AT ALL. I have seen NO college coaches at HS games at least not until play off season roles around. Why? Because the HS school program allows ALL kids the chance to be on the team, despite her ability. Sure that is fun but it becomes a political issue when you start having that father whom thinks is daughter is a better pitcher than Jennie Finch and should be pitching every game, when in fact she would not even make a summer travel team.
In closing, you I feel you have hit the nail squarely on the head, the fact that this rule have been in place for a long time. I think if OHSAA wants to keep up with the times,continue to provide a quality program for the Student -Athletes they need to spend a little more time, reviewing the antiquated rules, and not worry so much about if a child can move from one school to another with in the same district as long as these 4 rules are met first. Further more, I see that schools now can give a "perspective student transfer" a token of less than $20, we need to really be careful with that... or it too will turn in to a tattoo scandal.
Thank you again for your time, please understand that I am not mad, or upset with this. I know of at least 5 other states that have nothing like this rules in their HSAA rule book, It's time for Ohio to move from the 19th Century and into the 21st.
Roxanne Price
Mr XXXX:
Your last two questions would pretty much yield the same response.
The rule has been in effect much longer than I have been at the OHSAA. We believe in "educational athletics" and the value that school based programs have on young people. If you really follow, let's say AAU basketball, many games are played without trainers and without regard to game limitations, etc. I believe, we believe students should not be playing a sport 24/7. It leads to overuse injuries. Participation by member schools in the OHSAA is voluntary as is participation in school sports by students.
If you were a school coach would you really want to be teaching your students one thing, only to have it possibly contradicted by another coach. Would you also want the possibility of injury? You now in the NFL, some players have clauses in regard to what activities they are permitted even in the off season, that have nothing to do with their sports (like riding motorcycles).
In softball every student has the possibility to play in 27 contests, not 27 contests and 10 travel contests for this player, and 27 contests and 16 for this player, etc.
Our bylaws are voted in place by our member schools and our sports regulations are currently voted on by our Board of Directors, who happen to be members of the teaching profession...superintendents, principals, and AD's. Prior to a couple of years ago, sports regulations such as the one you mention above was in the bylaw section of the Handbook, which meant that it became a bylaw by vote of our member school principals. As an OHSAA administrator I don't have the opportunity to vote on bylaws, I just assist in the enforcement of whatever regulations have been passed or approved.
What I have indicated is totally my opinion, but I don?t' think I am off base and I have no problem understanding why there is a non-interscholastic rule. A student is not a member of a school team until he/she actually participates in a contest. The school season is not extremely long, giving students almost 3/4 of a year to participate in non-interscholastic activities. We also do not restrict "individual instruction" during the season, but the school coaching staff may, again so there is no conflict in coaching styles or to limit overuse of a muscle/tendon, etc.
Regards,
Roxanne
Roxanne Price, Assistant Commissioner
-----Original Message-----
From: > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 12:39 AM
To: rprice@ohsaa.org
Subject: Rules Question
Non-Interscholastic Participation
Ms. Price,
I know you have been asked this question before, I'm sure, but I do not understand, nor have I ever heard a reason for the above rule.
Would you be kind enough to explain to me the decision making process behind the drafting of this rule, the basis for it, and lastly why it is in effect. Please
Thank you for your time in advance,
Parent of Daughter