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Yes. She can take lessons under the "individual instruction" rule.
Yes. She can take lessons under the "individual instruction" rule.
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I agree there are good teams out there, my dd played for the Wave and we saw some good teams but you have to admit that the number of so called select and gold teams has increased a ton over the last few years. This has been another big discussion on here recently and there is a very good case to be made that TB has become very diluted compared to a few years ago.
jmho
And yes HITTER-I am totally serious, what part of what I have posted do you not understand
I understand it just fine, just dont agree with it.
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How would most of the to TB teams have faired against Poland or the Tidalwaves...I mean Keystone.....
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Brownsfan ... yes, of course a pitcher can practice on her own and/or she can take lessons. What are you reading to interpret they can't?
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I understand your frustration if your DD happens to be the one not throwing in games...but that's probably not going to be happening regardless if she was allowed to practice with her travel team or not. If she is practicing with her travel team she would be throwing BP at best because there aren't any tourneys going on during the HS season.
Now if your frustrated that she is not throwing at all in HS practice or warming up before games...then stay after practice or games and throw with her...nothing wrong with that.
I just don't get how practicing with her travel team changes anything???
Also...as stated earlier...players are allowed to take private instruction, just not as a team. If you have paid fees to a travel team then go to your travel coach and take hitting lessons/pitching lessons...you have already paid for that instruction upfront in your fees.
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coachjwb-Non-Interscholastic Participation
4.1) A member of an interscholastic softball squad (any student who has played in a scrimmage,
preview or regular season/tournament game as a substitute or starter) sponsored
by the Board of Education or other governing board shall not participate in a
non-interscholastic program (tryouts, practice or contest) as an individual or as a
member of a team in the sport of softball during the school's season.
The rule right there.
Lady_Knights-my dd who is in high school is not a pitcher. She is the blur you see on the basepaths. I'm talking in general for all pitchers. I asked my dd if pitchers threw BP and she said no. I will give the HC credit, he has learned alot the past two years because he is listening to the players who play TB. He just learned of the whip hit about a year and a half ago from bouldersdad at a fall/winter tournament. He purchased one and had my youngest dd show some of the hs girls how to use it.
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@Wave Rider:
There is a big difference between saying that many travel teams could not beat one of the Tidalwave teams and saying, as you did, "that there are so many [select and gold] teams that there is not enough talent to go around any more which has made many of these tb teams no better than a lot of JV teams today."
Once the young ladies reach high school, they are generally making the commitment to play travel ball, with all the opportunity costs that involves, because they have at the least a base level of talent. I find it highly unlikely that "many" travel ball teams (and what you actually said was "many" of what you earlier referred to as the select and gold travel ball teams, which I think implied the higher level of travel ball teams) would lose to "a lot" of JV teams.
I suspect the truth is there are a handful of HS JV teams that can consistently compete with the top 75% of travel ball teams. If you have been watching one of the JV teams from that handful and/or the bottom 25% of travel ball teams in the relevant age groups, you've most probably had your vision of HS JV teams and of travel ball teams skewed.
There is a big difference between saying that many travel teams could not beat one of the Tidalwave teams and saying, as you did, "that there are so many [select and gold] teams that there is not enough talent to go around any more which has made many of these tb teams no better than a lot of JV teams today."
Once the young ladies reach high school, they are generally making the commitment to play travel ball, with all the opportunity costs that involves, because they have at the least a base level of talent. I find it highly unlikely that "many" travel ball teams (and what you actually said was "many" of what you earlier referred to as the select and gold travel ball teams, which I think implied the higher level of travel ball teams) would lose to "a lot" of JV teams.
I suspect the truth is there are a handful of HS JV teams that can consistently compete with the top 75% of travel ball teams. If you have been watching one of the JV teams from that handful and/or the bottom 25% of travel ball teams in the relevant age groups, you've most probably had your vision of HS JV teams and of travel ball teams skewed.
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@brownsfan
See rule 7 here:
http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/rglts/GenSportsReg11-12.pdf
I think it was 7.3 or 7.4. I posted it earlier. Rule 4 actually sites it. A player CAN take individual instruction as long as it doesn't violate your school district or coach's policy.
See rule 7 here:
http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/rglts/GenSportsReg11-12.pdf
I think it was 7.3 or 7.4. I posted it earlier. Rule 4 actually sites it. A player CAN take individual instruction as long as it doesn't violate your school district or coach's policy.
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Brownsfan ... the key phrase there is non-interscholastic PROGRAM ... that is clearly talking about another team or league, not an individual lesson or working out on one's own.
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Another place like Greenville is Strausburg. It is all about the team, community and winning state titles.
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http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/rglts/SB10-11.pdf
We've been discussing rule 4.1, obviously:
4.1) A member of an interscholastic softball squad (any student who has played in a scrimmage, preview or regular season/tournament game as a substitute or starter) sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board shall not participate in a non-interscholastic program (tryouts, practice or contest) as an individual or as a member of a team in the sport of softball during the school's season (Sports Regulation 4.3).
But if you go down to rule 5, it specifically mentions "private instruction":
5) Instructional Programs See Regulations for Instructional Programs under Section 5 of the General Sports Regulations.
So rule 5 directs you to this rule in the General Sports Regs:
http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/rglts/GenSportsReg11-12.pdf
where it says:
7.3) Individual skill instruction may be received in any sport by a squad member at any time in individual lessons provided that these individual skill instructions do not violate any Board of Education, school administrators' or coaches' policies. Notwithstanding the foregoing provision, the coach may not conduct individual or group lessons for a squad member except during June 1 to July 31 and during the season of the sport.
Hopefully that clears up whether an athlete can practice in her basement or go to lessons.
We've been discussing rule 4.1, obviously:
4.1) A member of an interscholastic softball squad (any student who has played in a scrimmage, preview or regular season/tournament game as a substitute or starter) sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board shall not participate in a non-interscholastic program (tryouts, practice or contest) as an individual or as a member of a team in the sport of softball during the school's season (Sports Regulation 4.3).
But if you go down to rule 5, it specifically mentions "private instruction":
5) Instructional Programs See Regulations for Instructional Programs under Section 5 of the General Sports Regulations.
So rule 5 directs you to this rule in the General Sports Regs:
http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/rglts/GenSportsReg11-12.pdf
where it says:
7.3) Individual skill instruction may be received in any sport by a squad member at any time in individual lessons provided that these individual skill instructions do not violate any Board of Education, school administrators' or coaches' policies. Notwithstanding the foregoing provision, the coach may not conduct individual or group lessons for a squad member except during June 1 to July 31 and during the season of the sport.
Hopefully that clears up whether an athlete can practice in her basement or go to lessons.
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Wow...harsh. However, according to general sports rule 7.3, the coach is allowed to do it and make it stick.
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So I think we al are in agreement, they the board was drinking the juice when these rules were written. :lmao:
I just hope by the time my youngest dd gets into HS, I'm BRAC'd.
I just hope by the time my youngest dd gets into HS, I'm BRAC'd.
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Flarays and JoeA,
Perhaps my prior post came across with an apathetic flavor but for you that have been on OFC a long time or from the glory days of jjhuddle, you'll know I have championed for change in the OHSAA for years. I've always felt they have abused their authority in regards to the individual rights of the family structure. How dare they believe we don't know enough about parenting to make good choices for our family! I hate they believe they have the right to regiment our free time.
I've been on my soapbox on this very topic many times over the years. I've tried to contact the OHSAA committee and had no response. Years ago, I bombarded them with calls and emails that were never answered. I've gone as far as contacting my State Senator Chris Widener and State Representative Bob Hackett to see if there is anything that can be done thru legislature to erase this problem. So far I've only heard there's nothing I can do about it.
As you can tell, this topic really gets under my skin. In the beginning, I did not sit back and accept what OHSAA created. I went out and fought for our rights as parents. I guess it is with disgust that I printed my first post. Disgust because I feel I've done all I can do and I suspect it'll remain this way for a long time.
Someone once answered a post of mine saying I need to give up the fight and accept the rules as just that-----rules. The fact that I'm saying to accept things doesn't mean I agree with it. I conformed because I had to-------not because I want to.
By the way; you are two of the better coaches I've come to know over the years from OFC, jjhuddle, NFCC, and on the field. It is with the utmost respect that I responded to your posts. Some times my true feelings are hard to understand. A computer and keyboard in my hands is like a loaded gun in the hands of a mad man. lol.
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It sounds to me as if it might just be best to totally eliminate scholastic softball and baseball all together, and simply leave it all up to the travel programs, pay to play etc. . It would save school districts and tax payers tens of thousands of dollars per year. College recruiters use the summer travel season to identify talent, but the funny thing is, in over 20 years of high school coaching and several years now of being invovled in summer travel, I've never seen a girls get a scholarship to play in college that didn't play high school ball. Everytime I've ever spoken to a colege coach, the fist two questions have been, 1. Do you have a transcript for me (something most tb coaches can't get or don't really care about getting since there's no academic elegibility requirment for travel; summer players are not student-athletes, just athletes). 2. They will usually preface this question by saying, I've seen her play in the summer for "ABC Elite" and she seemed very good on that team which was loaded with talented players...What kind of impact does she make in your program, does she make the girls around her better, is she a good team player, is she a good team leader, is she a difference maker for you program. 3. Then they might ask for some stats or video. Another funny thing is, though tavel ball is so ultimately important, I've never seen a student-athelte's travel, J.O., AAU, or other non-scholastic program mentioned in the newspaper article about their signing with a college program; why is that?
My prediction is that within the next 20-25 years the only scholastic sports that will remain are those not generally played outside of the scholastic environment. Football, wrestling, track & field and cross country, will likely be the only scholastic sports left; everything else can be played extensively outside of school, and actually that may include wrestling too, with the growing proliferation of wrestling clubs across the country, unless national soft-ness eliminates wrestling altogether.
Just my nickles worth, IMHO...
Good luck to all scholastic student-athletes and summer travel athletes this year!
My prediction is that within the next 20-25 years the only scholastic sports that will remain are those not generally played outside of the scholastic environment. Football, wrestling, track & field and cross country, will likely be the only scholastic sports left; everything else can be played extensively outside of school, and actually that may include wrestling too, with the growing proliferation of wrestling clubs across the country, unless national soft-ness eliminates wrestling altogether.
Just my nickles worth, IMHO...
Good luck to all scholastic student-athletes and summer travel athletes this year!
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@magic12u:
If your post is directed at me, I don't advocate the elimination of scholastic sports and I don't underestimate the importance of HS ball for a player. (I absolutely loved it when our DD got local newspaper coverage; what a kick).
And if you think that all travel ball coaches don't give a rat's about academics, I can tell you two who believe that academics are crucial and who preach the same to their players. Those two coaches, BTW, have the following degrees: a B.A. from Stanford, a J.D. from the University of Virginia, and a B.A. from Wesleyan Connecticut and a PhD from Stanford.
I don't know why the relationship between high school ball coaches and travel ball coaches needs to be so hostile. But I'm also not going to just shut up when someone suggests that a good travel ball team couldn't beat a HS JV team. Or when a high school coach suggests that all travel ball coaches consider their players athletes instead of student-athletes.
If your post is directed at me, I don't advocate the elimination of scholastic sports and I don't underestimate the importance of HS ball for a player. (I absolutely loved it when our DD got local newspaper coverage; what a kick).
And if you think that all travel ball coaches don't give a rat's about academics, I can tell you two who believe that academics are crucial and who preach the same to their players. Those two coaches, BTW, have the following degrees: a B.A. from Stanford, a J.D. from the University of Virginia, and a B.A. from Wesleyan Connecticut and a PhD from Stanford.
I don't know why the relationship between high school ball coaches and travel ball coaches needs to be so hostile. But I'm also not going to just shut up when someone suggests that a good travel ball team couldn't beat a HS JV team. Or when a high school coach suggests that all travel ball coaches consider their players athletes instead of student-athletes.
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What I would like to know, is why is this rule in place to begin with?
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This was my question 93 posts ago(Other than " they can" why do they have this rule?) Still no answer
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I don't understand the coaches who get on a high horse & announce "No Practice with Travel team" before they even finish tryouts. If OHSAA allows it till first game, scrimmage, preview - then they should be fine with that.
If a girl is playing a fall or winter sport, we all expect the girl to show up for the Sunday team workout while they have spent the entire week doing the other sport. No matter what the sport - don't see why someone would now think that a Select practice once a week is too much till games start. Same if the girl just spent 3 hours a day, 6 days a week playing BB in January - should they be told they don't need to show to winter workouts???? All the same.....
And I believe that while OHSAA is out there in many situations, they do have to keep the standards the same for all sports. And most of these rules are in place for those who would be taking advantage of the next Kobe, Lebron, OJ Mayo, etc. So they do set some wierd rules up across the board for all....
If a girl is playing a fall or winter sport, we all expect the girl to show up for the Sunday team workout while they have spent the entire week doing the other sport. No matter what the sport - don't see why someone would now think that a Select practice once a week is too much till games start. Same if the girl just spent 3 hours a day, 6 days a week playing BB in January - should they be told they don't need to show to winter workouts???? All the same.....
And I believe that while OHSAA is out there in many situations, they do have to keep the standards the same for all sports. And most of these rules are in place for those who would be taking advantage of the next Kobe, Lebron, OJ Mayo, etc. So they do set some wierd rules up across the board for all....
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This rule is not just for softball, but all OHSSA sports.Soon there will be no more HS sports, schools will not be able to afford them. What will that do to club sports. Some communties have such pride in there HS teams.my father always told me. Girls at Keystone HS were born with a volleyball in one hand and a softball in the other. Without HS sports available will that cause a decrease in club sports?
I beleive this rule was put in place to protect all HS athletes. Would you let your son play both HS and club football at same time?
I beleive this rule was put in place to protect all HS athletes. Would you let your son play both HS and club football at same time?
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