TRUTH in recruiting

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I know this will start a fire storm, and this forum is mostly "summer travel driven" but after talking to several more people I'm going to post any ways.

As a high school coach, travel director, summer travel coach, and selected adidas futures coach, WHY do people believe that playing for a certain team, playing in a certain summer tournament etc. will get you recruited? I can understand players wanting to playing only in "bigger" type tournaments for the competition and experience, but SOOOOO many parents are being sold that is how you will get recruited.

Truth is, 1. MOST kids will NOT get a D-1 full ride scholar ship. 2. the best way to get recruited to a school is to write the coach, and attempt to get to a camp, or work out.
3. get to show case type events like done at Kent state etc. we've had players get noticed by colleges there, then asked to come to a practice. This still did not warrant an offer, just another opportunity.

I truly am not meaning to create a controversy, I can tell i'm getting old and losing the "fight"! I see so many good coaches, GREAT people getting out of coaching, from different organizations and high schools, due to the unrealistic views, and lack of being a "team mate" kids are being taught these days. The day of playing for a coach who makes them better, who cares about their well being and "doing the right things" is sadly going away.
What happened to "we look better as a successful team, then we look being selfish as an individual" what happened to the VALUE of being part of team?

 

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SGS... I think you make a very valid point. This is exactly how we did it with our oldest. But one thing that sometimes gets lost is this. Are you first looking at the schools that you are really interested in getting your degree from? We did alot of research with our daughter on first narrowing down which schools she was interested in. Then we went from there. And yes, she went directly to those coaches of those colleges and marketed herself to them. She attended camps/showcases where those coaches would be in attendance. That worked out very well for her and she's attending and playing for the school that was #1 on her list.

But I agree with others that have posted that it's really a combination of things that make for a successful recruiting experience. Probably the most successful approach is one which combines marketing yourself and attending camps/clinics on your own, combined with playing in college showcases and working with your travel team to help with the recruiting process.

I do think that there are many parents out there that think that if their DD is playing in college showcases that somehow all these colleges are going to come recruiting their DDs. In reality it just doesn't work that way for the vast majority of players out there.

Michael P.

 

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It is a simple truth, from my experience, that playing on certain teams gives weight to a player and will get a bit of notice by college coaches, or those that recruit for them. Just a small wedge in the door to open the recruiting process. That's it. For instance if I as a recruiter have an option to spend my time somewhere I may decide that I get more bang for my buck to go watch a tourney where I know that Team X and Team Y are going to be rather than somewhere else where I don't recognize any of the teams.

I think it is nothing more than a small attention getter on the recruiting side.

 

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I am sending this reply from the Premier Girls Fastpitch national championships in Cali. I think you have a view from someone who has lost players to these bigger teams. I have been all over this country on D1 visits and have yet to hear a college coach that isn't completely tickled with my dd moving on to those "bigger teams" and playing at a level of the collegiate ball that she will be facing in the coming years. Today she played against some of the best pitching she has seen this year. And Lord help us tomorrow.

You cant face the best players in the country playing at the "rumble on the river" or whatever, in a local atmosphere. You have to be at the biggies all over the country. Dont get me wrong, you still have to do the emails, the phone calls, the research, but if you think they give you a better look because you are a good teammate, you are sorely mistaken.

I understand your frustration with your situation, and most players will not have to opportunity or skills to play in that bigger team enviroment. But to wholeheartedly knock the girls who do so is not a good thing.

I wish you the best in your endevours to construct and maintain a good team, and teammates. And I am sure you do so, but if the girls wants to move on to something they think is better, than just wish them the best.

Herb

 

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Look over the rosters of players in the PAC 10; the Big 12 and the SEC. How many Ohio players are there? Look over the rosters of the Big 10 and the MAC; How many non-Ohio players are there? Enough said.

 

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I would love to see someone break down the actual facts for all to truely see!!!!!!

How many girls from Ohio have gotten full rides from each of the last several graduating classes???? What % of the Ohio girls are actually playing College ball, where their education costs are covered????

Seems like reading this board, that it actually blows the #'s out of the water for kids who get rides for other sports.........But I would really like someone who may have the info to present on here. This may go a long way in people understanding what real opportunities are out there for our DD's........

 

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Sorry Truth watching some of these players play in the big Ten and on TV, there are many, many Ohio kids that can play with anyone of these teams and hold their own quite well. Just because kids have Cali zip codes doesn't make them softball goddesses... Look at some of the stats and errors etc... yeah some can hit, but their basic fielding skills leave a bit to be desired.

As a college coach, do you go for the hitter who is poor defensively or a defensive player who is an avg. hitter? use Heron as an example 19 errors 2009, 23 2010 and at least reduced them to about 10 last year... still 10 is too many at that level...

Look at OSU's website picture of whoever their playing... the Catchers eyes are shut at bat contact....

 

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You have some valid points there Magic. The underling truth is that playing at some of the smaller tournaments seems to be trophy hunting and not playing against the better competition.
If there is truth to the fact that playing against better competition will make you better, then obviously the smaller tournaments won't make you better.
Your quote...." The day of playing for a coach who makes them better, who cares about their well being and "doing the right things" is sadly going away." I am sure glad that is not happening in our organization and the opposite is happening. More coaches do care.
I do agree with you that contacting college coaches and attending their clinics is the number way to be recruited. This has been verified at every college recruiting clinic that we have held for our players/parents.

 

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At some point drilling how to hit, field, throw can not duplicate playing against the best. A coach can only take a player so far. They rest has to be done through trial of fire. If you are not playing against the best pitchers, with the best defense then you really have no idea how good of a hitter you are. That is just the way of competition.

Playing on the big name teams works because they go to the biggest tournaments and see the best teams/pitcher/defense/hitters...ect.

 

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I had a good conversation about recruiting with a top D1 coach that said your experience is like a deck of cards. The better competition you play adds more cards to your deck. Then playing the right card at the right time gets you noticed/recruited. You obviously have to be seen playing the right card so you need to be in the right tournaments, camps, etc.

 

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There are quite a few different topics on this thread.

1st one that sticks out is Magic's teammate comment and IMO at 14/16u showcase level he is dead nuts on. Kids and parents don't necessarily want to be part of something, they want to be showcased. It's an issue right now in the game.

As far getting recruited a lot goes into that from the players side, letters, emails, skills video both on DVD and YouTube, grades etc., the do's and dont's is a mile long and every coach has something different and I'm not sure all of them really go by what they are telling you to do.

Bottom line can you play? How do they find that out? Watching you play and seeing you at their camp. What tournaments are they going to go to? The tournament that has the most players they are interested in, they go to where they can watch 10-20 players instead of 1 or 2.

What tournaments get you best ready to compete in those tournaments and showcase yourself? Uncle Pete's battle by the lake, where your team is walking kids off of the bases by the 2nd inning or tournaments in which your not playing your "A" game, your going to get embarrassed? It's pretty clear that those who want to play college ball, what path to take. Keep getting pushed by your opponents and you will get better.

There are exceptions to the rule, but there is a reason some organizations produce so many college players and others don't.

 

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Btw playing a tough schedule will make coaches better to lol, nothing like playing a talented team with a good coach to exploit weaknesses in schemes or position play lol. So a special thanks to those who have taken me to the woodshed hahah!

 

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Last year my team played in the Gapps tourney 16u. I received a hand full of emails and a few phone calls from some Dll, Dlll and NAIA coaches inquiring about my players that they had seen during that tournament. Last year we also played in the Buckeye Showdown and a number of my players also participated in the NFCA camp. The Showdown is always the same weekend of the Stingray showcase. I also received emails about players on my team from coaches that said they watched certain girls playing in the Showdown. Again Dll, Dlll and NAIA. Most of the emails where specific stating the game that the coach watched. My point kind of agrees with SGS that you don`t necessarily have to participate in bigger tourneys to get noticed by college coaches. Now I know there are also those that will say well it is not Dl but there is a very small percentage of players that will actually play @ the Dl level. Also the girls on my team that are interested in playing in college have been going to the camps of the colleges of choice getting to know the coaches and programs along with the coaches getting to know them. I guess we will see how many actually play in college but they are taking the right steps to try to make it happen. Oh and when we played in the Gapps we did not win a game and actually where blown out in one game. One comment from one of the coaches who contacted me was she liked how a few of the girls she was interested in kept a positive attitude and were still encouraging even when faced with adversity. You never know what is going to catch the eye of a coach when you are playing. That is why I always tell my players to always play to impress and act professional since you never know who will be watching.

 

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Truthfully, it's not a sour taste from losing kids to bigger teams, our 18u White team for example, Coach Dave Day, has NOT lost players to bigger organizations, and has beat many of the top organizations in the country, including winning At Boulder Colorado and second at NSA world series.

My biggest problem really, is people telling kids, who never will be D-1 type kids, more D-2/NAIA/JUCO players, they will get "discovered" on our team or by the tournaments we play in. I appreciate the many comments, and am Shocked FAST2HOME and I actually have some agreements on things!

I am sending this reply from the Premier Girls Fastpitch national championships in Cali. I think you have a view from someone who has lost players to these bigger teams. I have been all over this country on D1 visits and have yet to hear a college coach that isn't completely tickled with my dd moving on to those "bigger teams" and playing at a level of the collegiate ball that she will be facing in the coming years. Today she played against some of the best pitching she has seen this year. And Lord help us tomorrow.

You cant face the best players in the country playing at the "rumble on the river" or whatever, in a local atmosphere. You have to be at the biggies all over the country. Dont get me wrong, you still have to do the emails, the phone calls, the research, but if you think they give you a better look because you are a good teammate, you are sorely mistaken.

I understand your frustration with your situation, and most players will not have to opportunity or skills to play in that bigger team enviroment. But to wholeheartedly knock the girls who do so is not a good thing.

I wish you the best in your endevours to construct and maintain a good team, and teammates. And I am sure you do so, but if the girls wants to move on to something they think is better, than just wish them the best.

Herb

 

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I think if you are not on a "name" team playing in big tournaments you will almost have to recruit yourself, or get very lucky-real life example: Oldest DD has game of her life in a Friday night game. Some coaches had stopped to spend the night in the town on way to bigger tournament next day. She goes 4/4, hits from both sides, makes three great catches in outfield, and pitches two shoutout innings to close game. Before this she had batted, pitched, and played well in other "smaller" tourn, never a peep. Email started exploding on Monday afterwards, camp invites and all that. Another girl on team, who has hopes and is a great ballplayer, played miserably. The silence for her was deafening. She basically has to write-off every coach who saw her, and that makes it that much tougher for her in the long run. MORAL: Every play, every word, every action on and off the field MAY be seen by somebody you would like to play for, so make all these things count. Or so Confuciois say.....:yahoo:

 

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If you take a moment and look at the final NFCA rankings for D2 (http://nfca.org/top25/index.php?cat_id=2), or the D3 (http://nfca.org/top25/index.php?cat_id=3) and NIAI schools you will see that most of the best schools in softball where NOT in California or FLorida. That the rest of the nation was dominate in 2011. Yet even with this evidence this forum continues to have this bizarre self serving inferiority complex. D1 is dominated by the warm coast schools to be sure but the majority of schools, the ones our daughters are likely to attend do extremely well on the softball fields.

What do your daughters want to with their lives? Few have aspirations of being involved in softball in a professional way. They are much smarter that you give them credit for. Most will want to be teachers, or nurses, or accountants or engineers etc... and that choice will dictate what school she will ultimately attend. Most of these kids will attend schools relatively close to home and that we do have a large range of great schools both in Ohio and PA that can fulfill their needs. I do not understand why we would measure our success as a sport/parents/coaches against the number of Ohio (or PA) players that we place on PAC10 teams. We will never be successful using that criteria.

Let's look at the numbers. There are over 100 schools within 2 hours of my home, of those there are only nine D1 programs, of those only 1 is what I would call a high D1 and that one hasn't ever been to the big dance. There is not a power house program in this region that can claim year in and year out success on the national stage. Now if your daughter has University of Arizona skills then go for it, but the reality is that most of these kids don't have that skill set regardless of who they play for and how many airplane rides they take. That is why U of A recruits nationally. However, OU still has to field a team along with little Bethany College. So within 2 hours of our home there are 100 schools that will need about 400 players each and every year. Of those 100 schools, 99 are attending LOCAL tournaments, showcases and offering camps.

If your daughter wants to play big time softball on a national stage and has the skill sets, then go for it and take that one in a million shot. However, Bethany or Wooster, or Cal etc...... each will recruit a freshman class, some will have athletic money all will have academic money. Your daughter gets to play some ball and is on her way to be an educated adult; which seems to me to be a much more important measurement of our success.

 

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"My biggest problem really, is people telling kids, who never will be D-1 type kids".... ok Magic... now we do disagree...LOL...... I have been doing this over 20 years and consider myself pretty decent at evaluating talent but, I will never tell kids that they will never be a D-1 type kid especially when they are 14 and younger....but even an older girl can develop into D-1 material in a relatively short period of time.
A good example is a former Anthony Wayne player who did not even play varsity until her senior year, led the league in hitting and now playing college ball....(not D-1). It seems like all the sudden it just happened for her.
I just have not been a softball "god" that I can label a girl a non D-1 player. I will let the college coaches and the player decide that.

 

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I had a sobering moment last year in College Station at the 16U ASA Nationals. I was responsible for passing out our teams profiles. So anytime a college coach would sit down, I would ask if they would like our packet of profiles. Everyone said yes and a couple teams actually gave them back because they were done recruiting that class. I told them not all were 2011's but there were 2012's and they said they were done with 2012's and looking for 2013's! Those were kids just finishing freshman year in high school?? I couldn't believe it, but there are many schools recruiting the younger kids. So it's not too far out there to have 14U showcase tourneys that colleges are recruiting HARD!

 

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"My biggest problem really, is people telling kids, who never will be D-1 type kids".... ok Magic... now we do disagree...LOL...... I have been doing this over 20 years and consider myself pretty decent at evaluating talent but, I will never tell kids that they will never be a D-1 type kid especially when they are 14 and younger....but even an older girl can develop into D-1 material in a relatively short period of time.
A good example is a former Anthony Wayne player who did not even play varsity until her senior year, led the league in hitting and now playing college ball....(not D-1). It seems like all the sudden it just happened for her.
I just have not been a softball "god" that I can label a girl a non D-1 player. I will let the college coaches and the player decide that.

Maybe we don't have to disagree FAST, maybe I should clarify: mostly I see this at the 16u level (btw I've never heard of your coaches doing this). That coaches will tell parents playing in xyz nationals or tournaments will get you a scholarship. I think it's fairly easy too see at that age who has d1ability. At the adidas event we had an eighth grader with that ability, we had lots of other good players most not d-1 players, and their is nothing wrong with that. I just do not like players and parents believing playing for a certain team, a certain tournament etc. will get you recruited, as someone said, what if you play poorly in those "big" tournaments. The bottom line for MOST players not all, sell your self to colleges, partner with h.s. And travel coaches. Enjoy the game more then what's in for your self, and greater things usually happen..

 

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I am sending this reply from the Premier Girls Fastpitch national championships in Cali. I think you have a view from someone who has lost players to these bigger teams. I have been all over this country on D1 visits and have yet to hear a college coach that isn't completely tickled with my dd moving on to those "bigger teams" and playing at a level of the collegiate ball that she will be facing in the coming years. Today she played against some of the best pitching she has seen this year. And Lord help us tomorrow.

You cant face the best players in the country playing at the "rumble on the river" or whatever, in a local atmosphere. You have to be at the biggies all over the country. Dont get me wrong, you still have to do the emails, the phone calls, the research, but if you think they give you a better look because you are a good teammate, you are sorely mistaken.

I understand your frustration with your situation, and most players will not have to opportunity or skills to play in that bigger team enviroment. But to wholeheartedly knock the girls who do so is not a good thing.

I wish you the best in your endevours to construct and maintain a good team, and teammates. And I am sure you do so, but if the girls wants to move on to something they think is better, than just wish them the best.

Herb

Agree.Playing for organizations such as Stingrays or Lasers guarantees your kid will be at the tourneys with the most college coaches in attendance,in Ohio.But think you need to play for the coach with the most contacts and best history of helping kids get scholarships.The organization helps but playing for the right coach helps more.No knock on those orgs because they do help players.

Example:Glenn Widener teams should have fees of $1500.His output of scholarships saves you in the long run?Sure there are others but his name pops in my head 1st.What he gives parents and players is less time and travel going to camps and emails?I'd pay him $1500 so I don't have to do the leg work.Not to mention,his teams are the best of the best I believe.

Or:have deep pockets and dedication to put your kid on a ASA Gold team in another state?D1 is hard to acquire in this state I believe no matter how good the kid is.You have to market yourself.D1 coaches don't rely on what papers said she did in highschool,daddy keeping book for an elite team?They will tell you what they see your kids future is-not what you think.Seen many kids get D2 scholarships to be a 1st baseman and spent the last 8 years as an elite pitcher for example?

Question?
If a shortstop went to ASA Gold Nationals once for an elite known team,would it trump a player going to 8 camps a certain college offered followed by emails from that player(not a parent!) about where she would be playing any given weekend and her yearning to play for that college?