Truth in Tryout Advertising

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All right gang. I've been reading the different team try-out pages. I have seen teams saying that they will be attending the ASA/USA Championship next year. These statements were written before the ASA Regional Championships so there is no way that any berth could be guaranteed for next year. The teams that wrote these statements didn't even attend the Regional Championships. It is one thing to say that you are planning to or striving to attend the ASA/USA Championship but it is an outright over-exaggeration and very misleading to state that you will be attending.

And teams wonder why disgruntled parents get on OFC and bad-mouth them.

Come on coaches, how about a little honesty and truth in your advertising. What will you tell your parents and girls when you do not earn a berth to the ASA/USA Championship or get invited to any one of the invitational tournaments that you listed in your advertisement?

 

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:yahoo:

it is time for the ad campaigns. I am taking the year off from coaching for the first time in a long time but am drawn to the tryout page out of habit. It is important for parents/players to look past the hype this time of the year and do their home work on any prospective teams/organizations. Good luck to all this tryout season!

 

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Why are you taking the year off Derek? I know you and you are way to involved to take a year off, not to mention way to young, lol. I don't look 80 years old for nothing.

 

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I don't look 80 years old for nothing.

And I thought it was just the leisure suits you wore while coaching third base. :lmao:

 

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Nice Merlion, Nice.

 

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Why are you taking the year off Derek? I know you and you are way to involved to take a year off, not to mention way to young, lol. I don't look 80 years old for nothing.

Chris and Tim did a helluva job with the exposure team this year so I am going to get out of their way. My players will be eligible to tryout for their team this year. I am hoping that some other teams will let me scratch my coaching itch this year and allow me to help out with their teams.

I am sure you are just as tired from all the work mother nature has given us as you are coaching. All the best to you and yours this season!

 

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All right gang. I've been reading the different team try-out pages. I have seen teams saying that they will be attending the ASA/USA Championship next year. These statements were written before the ASA Regional Championships so there is no way that any berth could be guaranteed for next year. The teams that wrote these statements didn't even attend the Regional Championships. It is one thing to say that you are planning to or striving to attend the ASA/USA Championship but it is an outright over-exaggeration and very misleading to state that you will be attending.

And teams wonder why disgruntled parents get on OFC and bad-mouth them.

Come on coaches, how about a little honesty and truth in your advertising. What will you tell your parents and girls when you do not earn a berth to the ASA/USA Championship or get invited to any one of the invitational tournaments that you listed in your advertisement?

Not only that but what about the teams that brag about having 10 of their players going on to play in college when most if not all of them were committed even before joining their team? Just more self promotion. Three kids on my team will be playing at the next level but I don't deserve any of the credit. They've played for other teams, marketed theirselves the way they should and worked hard to make it.

 

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Not only that but what about the teams that brag about having 10 of their players going on to play in college when most if not all of them were committed even before joining their team? Just more self promotion. Three kids on my team will be playing at the next level but I don't deserve any of the credit. They've played for other teams, marketed theirselves the way they should and worked hard to make it.

First, I think it's all in the wording; however, saying that you have X number of players going on to play for X, Y and Z college is still a team promotion, whether they got there through the team's coaching or not. They CHOSE to play for that team, even though they're moving on. So something about said organization must be valuable to a college player, and thus, a future college player, no?

Not taking sides, just actually looking at both and playing devil's advocate since I've seen this same thing posted more than once in a negative-ish sense.

 

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We try to be truthful every year. I honestly don't know, if people either hear it, care about it or it even matters, but it is important to us and that is what matters at the end of the day I guess. I too don't know how people can say they are playing in "this or that national etc." but that is one of a few things that amazes us. We clearly stated we were NOT recruiting for an adidas team [because adidas says they won't allow that] what each of our teams do as for travel [some a lot, some not so much, most base it on talent] and we are proud we had 27 kids in our 18u program that are college bound, but we also are honest that we didn't do that alone, it was a partnership, and mostly based on people contacting colleges and doing a lot of leg work. I'm dismayed by the lies, but honestly, things are so diluted here in NWO, top pitching is hard to find, most organizations are about similar in nature, and the day of powerhouse teams is fading fast. I've run out of ideas and energy, but I encourage you and others keep making posts like this, it's good information for masses.

All right gang. I've been reading the different team try-out pages. I have seen teams saying that they will be attending the ASA/USA Championship next year. These statements were written before the ASA Regional Championships so there is no way that any berth could be guaranteed for next year. The teams that wrote these statements didn't even attend the Regional Championships. It is one thing to say that you are planning to or striving to attend the ASA/USA Championship but it is an outright over-exaggeration and very misleading to state that you will be attending.

And teams wonder why disgruntled parents get on OFC and bad-mouth them.

Come on coaches, how about a little honesty and truth in your advertising. What will you tell your parents and girls when you do not earn a berth to the ASA/USA Championship or get invited to any one of the invitational tournaments that you listed in your advertisement?

 

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We try to be truthful every year. I honestly don't know, if people either hear it, care about it or it even matters, but it is important to us and that is what matters at the end of the day I guess. I too don't know how people can say they are playing in "this or that national etc." but that is one of a few things that amazes us. We clearly stated we were NOT recruiting for an adidas team [because adidas says they won't allow that] what each of our teams do as for travel [some a lot, some not so much, most base it on talent] and we are proud we had 27 kids in our 18u program that are college bound, but we also are honest that we didn't do that alone, it was a partnership, and mostly based on people contacting colleges and doing a lot of leg work. I'm dismayed by the lies, but honestly, things are so diluted here in NWO, top pitching is hard to find, most organizations are about similar in nature, and the day of powerhouse teams is fading fast. I've run out of ideas and energy, but I encourage you and others keep making posts like this, it's good information for masses.

I disagree about the days of powerhouse teams being a thing of the past in NWO, I think coaches at the younger levels currently don't know how build those teams. When my oldest was at the 12/14u levels there were coaches like Dave Day, Wayne Baker, Bob Graham, Bob Dick/Lori Dewyer. There was friendly rivalrys, coaches pushing each other, giving each other scouting reports on out of town teams. Powerhouse teams start at 12u, I'm not seeing the comradery between coaches that I've seen in the past.

 

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uber --good points .

 

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I disagree about the days of powerhouse teams being a thing of the past in NWO, I think coaches at the younger levels currently don't know how build those teams. When my oldest was at the 12/14u levels there were coaches like Dave Day, Wayne Baker, Bob Graham, Bob Dick/Lori Dewyer. There was friendly rivalrys, coaches pushing each other, giving each other scouting reports on out of town teams. Powerhouse teams start at 12u, I'm not seeing the comradery between coaches that I've seen in the past.

I will say there's a strong "working relationship" amongst quite a few of the top 10 12u Ohio teams...maybe not widely known but just ask them who is working together and facing each other on "off" weekends...I will say these coaches respect each other and have helped push each other to a better level. May not fit your understanding of what it used to be but from what I've lived this year and last it surely has helped us get better.

 

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@wvanalmsick:

Yep, that has always been one of my pet peeves, the advertising that the team is going to USA/ASA when they haven't already qualified. You hit the nail on the head: advertise that you are playing an aggressive schedule that will include all Region 9/Ohio qualifiers for USA/ASA, but don't state that you are going to USA/ASA unless and until you've received a berth.

It has taken me nearly a decade to figure out the ins and outs of ASA qualifying (and even now SoCal Dad kindly points out the errors that I still make). I think it is really unfair to families who might not have any understanding of the ASA system to advertise that the team is going to USA/ASA Nationals.

 

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@wvanalmsick:

Yep, that has always been one of my pet peeves, the advertising that the team is going to USA/ASA when they haven't already qualified. You hit the nail on the head: advertise that you are playing an aggressive schedule that will include all Region 9/Ohio qualifiers for USA/ASA, but don't state that you are going to USA/ASA unless and until you've received a berth.

It has taken me nearly a decade to figure out the ins and outs of ASA qualifying (and even now SoCal Dad kindly points out the errors that I still make). I think it is really unfair to families who might not have any understanding of the ASA system to advertise that the team is going to USA/ASA Nationals.

I am one who is guilty of saying we are going there, however - I assumed it was obvious to all that it means this is the goal of this team.

We went there a year ago at 10U, and have been working and building a team to make another run for it this coming season. I don't think it's false advertising, I'm pretty sure we'll be there again. But each and every family on my team knows we still need to qualify.... duh.... and there are plenty of opportunities.

Give the parents looking at teams a little credit, If they really don't know how the process works, they probably don't know what ASA/USA is anyway and it won't matter to them.

Do you honestly think coaches are trying to "trick" families into joining their teams. How long will a team like that last???

 

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@djkepple:

We can agree to disagree on this one. Especially for families of the young ones, I believe that the multiple sanctions, the "regionals" v. true nationals issues, the qualifying requirements for nationals, etc. etc. can be a total mystery. I understand that your families who have been through the process know about the qualification requirement, but I would be really surprised if over 50% of the number of 12u families who attend your tryouts understand the process, let alone the nuances.

"If they really don't know how the process works, they probably don't know what ASA/USA is anyway and it won't matter to them."

Um, maybe they would like to be educated about the process and maybe then it would matter to them whether the team has already qualified.

Look, I didn't even know who wvanalmsick was referring to (and I still don't know whether he was referring to you) and I haven't read your tryout advertisement; I've blocked the tryout threads. I'm just saying that the whole tryout process and nuances regarding travel ball can be overwhelming for families and especially at the younger ages tryout notices need to not be overblown. I don't know, for example, if you advertised that you were attending tournaments such as Stingrays, Laser Nation, and GAPSS. If you did, then I hope that you included some kind of qualification, such as "if we are accepted to those events". We've been lucky to be accepted to these tournaments when we have applied, but I would never publicly presume to families who are trying out that we will get invited for the next year.

I don't think Bill accused anyone of trying to "trick" families into joining a particular team. I think that he is saying that coaches need to understand that how they phrase the schedule for the team can be misleading to families that aren't steeped in fastpitch knowledge.

You disagree with the position that Bill and I have taken. Your position is not irrational and as I said, I will simply agree to disagree.

 

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I've blocked the tryout threads.

Now That is the best suggestion I've ever heard on OFC period.

You have valid points, so we will only agree to half disagree.

 

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I am asking a question. I heard if that your org is hosting an ASA qualifier (i think for 2nd year) that your teams get an automatic berth?? I know of one team (not mine) went to the Eastern Qualifiers on this fact. Maybe that's why some of them are posting that they are going to the nationals.

 

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@Finch:

See now, your post illustrates perfectly how difficult it is to understand the ASA system. Wvanalmsick was not complaining about teams that include in their try-out post a statement that they will be attending ASA Eastern Nationals. There are a ton of Eastern National qualifiers and last year any team who attended the Strongsville ASA tournament qualified for Eastern Nationals. What Bill is complaining about, and I agree with him, are the tryout notices stating that a team is going to USA/ASA Nationals. The USA/ASA Nationals are true nationals in the sense that teams from all over the country attend. Qualifying for USA/ASA Nationals is a horse of an entirely different color than qualifying for a regional ASA nationals such as Eastern Nationals. It's really hard to qualify and even though I am extraordinarily proud of our team's recent win at Eastern Nationals, there can be no question that the competition at a USA/ASA National tournament is superior to that at the regional ASA nationals. The whole experience of playing at a USA/ASA Nationals (typically over 100 teams and in some age groups closer to 200 teams, with a ton of college coaches beginning at the 14u age level) is also superior to playing at a regional ASA nationals. (Arguably the best thing about our win at Eastern Nationals was that with the championship we earned a berth to the 2012 16u USA/ASA Nationals).

Using 16u as an example, to the best of my knowledge the only Ohio teams who can currently say they are going to USA/ASA Nationals are Lasers Gold (I'm virtually certain that the Gold's wonderful, historic [with respect to Ohio] win of the USA/ASA Nationals at 14u also earned them a 2012 USA/ASA berth at 16u), Buckeye Heat 95, and Ohio Ice Silver (whose second place finish at Eastern Nationals also came with a 2012 USA/ASA berth). Those are the only teams that know right now they have qualified.

Wvanalmsick also alluded to the problem of teams saying that they will attend certain prestigious invitational tournaments in 2012, before any decisions have been made by those tournament committees regarding selection of teams. And I agree that unless a player trying out for a team understands how difficult it is to have one's application accepted by a tournament committee for a tournament the likes of Stingrays, the player and her family might assume that a team saying it will play Stingrays will do just that. The only teams that can say right now they will be playing Stingrays are the Stingrays teams, whose families volunteer incredible time and effort to that charity showcase tournament and who understandably don't have to go through the selection process.

While there is a lot of "lateral" movement from one well-established travel team to another as part of the try-out scene, there is also a fair amount of "upward" movement from rec league, local all-star, or limited travel teams to the full-blown world of travel ball. Families making the "upward" move can't be expected to understand all the nuances of ASA tournaments and elite showcase invitationals and I agree with wvanalmsick that the teams have an obligation to state what the team will try to do rather than making it appear that the team already has the right to participate at USA/ASA Nationals and prestigious invitational tournaments.

 

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I am not a fan of dishonesty and verbage that misleads. That is why we (Havoc) have this sentence in our tryout post:

"Our intent is to play a tough ASA schedule, including nationals, along with college exposure."

I sincerely hope this sentence does not mislead anyone. We will do whatever we can to schedule ASA qualifiers that offer college exposure. I received a PM from someone that stated another team is offering up to 14 college exposure type summer tournaments (16U) and wanted to know why we were looking at only participating in about 8 summer tournaments. No offense, but how can a coach promise something like this at 16U here in Ohio and how can a parent possibly believe something like this? Unbelievable......

Len

 

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14 tournaments at 16u? Either that includes 3-4 fall exposure events or the players on the team aren't playing Ohio HS ball.