Umpire Question

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This past weekend my daughter's team was playing. She was the pitcher. There was a situation where there was a runner on first and third with two outs, and the runner on first decided to continue to second base while the ball was in the circle trying to produce a run prior to her being tagged out.

My daughter knew that the runner was advancing, but she did not take any action as she wanted to make sure the runner was too far to turn around and ensure the runner on third base could not advance. The runner stopped jogging suddenly and came to a complete stop.

Immediately my husband yelled--she's out. Of course everyone else also realized that she had stopped and also began yelling that she was out.

There were three umpires, and they did nothing until the out was made by tagging the runner and the runner from third had scored.

The coach went out and argued to no avail.

After the game, we asked the coach why the runner going to second was not out at the point she stopped running. He informed us that the umpire on the other side of the field saw my daughter's elbow twitch, and therefore the runner was not out.

This is a first for me. Is this really a call? None of the other umpires saw the twitch, but because this one that was on the other side of the elbow that supposedly twitched saw such a tiny movement, they all supported his call.

I am curious as to what others think about this call. How much movement is necessary in this instance to negate the runner being out?

 

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My understanding is that the runner can pass 1st base while the ball is in the circle and can stop briefly but must then continue or return to first. No jumping around back and forth. The rule about the pitcher is that she has to be making a gesture like she is going to throw the ball, not a twitch.

This is my 2 cents for what its worth.

 

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Wow. Well first, once the runner stops going to second, she must immediately make a decision to proceed to 2nd base or return to first base. So there can be a stop, but then she must imediately decide which way to proceed. So how does blue define immediately? That is one question.

But the twitching movement is something new. I'll let Bretman handle that.

BTW, where were you playing that you had 3 umpires?

 

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A runner can stop if a play is made on her. A fake throw is considered "making a play". Not sure if that twitch qualifiers as a fake throw however.

 

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Look Back Rule: Section 7 ART 1....The look back rule will be in effect when the ball is live, the batter has touched first base or has been declared out and the pitcher has possession of the ball within the pitcher's circle.

ART 2....The runner(s) may stop once, but then must immediately return to the base or attempt to advance to the next base.

ART 3.... Once the runner stops at a base for any reason, she will be declared out if she leaves the base.

ART 4....Responsibilities of the batter-runner after completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has the ball within the 16-foot circle, including a base on balls or a dropped thrid strike are as follows:
a. A batter-runner who rounds first base towards second base may stop, but then must immediately return to first or attempt to advance to second base.
b. A batter-runner who overruns first base towards right field, turns left and immediately stops, must then return non-stop to first base or attempt to advance to second base.
c. A batter-runner who overruns first base towards right field, turns left and moves directly towards second base and stops is committed to second base and must attempt to advance non-stop towards second base.
d. A batter-runner who overruns first base towards right field, turns left and moves back towards the infield in any direction except directly towards second base is committed to first and must return to first.
e. A batter-runner who overruns first base towards right field, turns right is committed to first base and must return to first base.
PENALTY: (Arts. 2,3,4) The ball is dead. "No Pitch" is declared when applicable and the runner is out. If two or more runners are off bases, when one is called out, the ball is dead and other runners are returned to the last base touched. Only one runner may be called out.

EXCEPTION: The runner will not be declared out if a play is made on another runner (a fake throw, is considered a play), the pitcher no longer has possession of the ball within the 16-foot circle, or releases the ball on a pitch to the batter.

wvanalmsick "So how does blue define immediately?"
As a general rule we've been taught that a 1 second count is immediately and I don't have my NFHS Softball Preseason Guide to cite this with me.

FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing too SLOW!

 

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This was a college game, and the home plate umpire was an umpire in training. She was a disaster and made terrible decisions (or no decisions) all weekend. She should consider different employment.

 

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This kind of play usually doesn't work at the college level.

 

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I am curious as to what others think about this call. How much movement is necessary in this instance to negate the runner being out?

Whether or not any action by the pitcher constitutes "making a play" is up to the umpire's judgment. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that the umpire will use good judgment!

Once "a play" is deemed to have been made (and "faking a play" is treated the same as "making a play") the Look Back Rule is off.

There's no set in stone answer to "How much movement is necessary to negate the runner being out". Generally, you want to see an arm movement that simulates an actual throw, or the start of a throw, or that moves the arm into a throwing position to say that the pitcher was "faking/making a play". The pitcher taking a step toward the runner, as if she was going to exit the circle to attempt a tag, could also be interpreted as "faking/making a play".

The standard I've often heard is that the umpire should look for some move by the pitcher that a runner could reasonably see as a move to retire her.

All that aside, there is a certain element of timing that I would have to see to judge this play. You say that the runner "stopped". Well, runners are allowed to "stop" once between the bases. What they can't do is stop and stand stationary in one spot if the pitcher is not faking/making a play.

Also, you say that the runner was eventually retired. So, a play must have been made on her at some point. How much time elapsed between the runner's stop and the actual play that retired her?

It seems strange that a "beginning umpire" would be working games at the college level. Most "beginners" start out doing 10U games! Even if this umpire was new to the college level, you would think that they would have already mastered the levels below that, such as high school varsity or 18U travel. Throwing an inexperienced umpire into a college game is just a recipe for disaster!