Whats the number one thing as a parent you would have done differently in your daughter softball car

[wow]

And all the fun from traveling and seeing places you never would have along with the friendships and good times travel ball offers.

This is what I am screaming!!! See you agree!

 

[tankerlab]

I'm going to have to agree with WOW here. For starters, you have said that your team has girls committed to D3 schools. Those girls will receive $0 in athletic money... and before we start the "D3 schools will find a way to get you the money" discussion... they won't. Most D3 schools that are worth going to will tell you up front, "do not come here just to play softball, but rather come here because this is where you want to be." It is a huge NCAA violation to even appear to do otherwise so they aren't going to risk it by "finding" these girls "extra" money to play girl's softball at the D3 level, at least not in this day and age.
Secondly, your return of $120,000 on a $15,000 dollar travel team investment probably represents more like 1% of 1/2 of 1% of the kids that play travel ball. Many of these kids play 6+ years in orgs that travel frequently out of the state and 3-4 times/yr out of the Midwest. Many of those families have spent $15,000 before the kid ever reaches 8th grade, and for sure have spent it by the time they reach high school. Unless your daughter plays on one of 3-4 very select teams in the Midwest, there is no team that has 13 kids with SUBSTANTIAL athletic money, let alone 13 committed kids to athletic scholarship granting institutions getting "most" of their college paid for.
So, as WOW said, DO NOT think of this as an investment. The most likely scenario is that you will lose some of your money. Sometimes, you come out a little bit ahead, sometimes a little behind. But, if the primary reason you are doing this is for your daughter to have the experience you won't be disappointed either way.

... And yes, I do have to agree with Mike here. Maximizing the things that do not cost a lot of money (i.e. individual practice time/reps, going to a school's camp, writing schools) is just plain smart. I wouldn't go so far as to say don't play travel, but certainly I would be doing the things Mike's daughter did (based on his posts).

2 out of the 13 are D-3 schools... 11 out of 13 got athletic money. And yes there is more to it. You are so right about it's for your daughter to have the experience! And so correct about doing the things Mike said his daughter did!
Scholarships don't come easy. On top of playing travel ball, let's add... Going to the College Camps and constantly E-Mailing college Coaches, Hitting lessons once a week, pitching lessons once a week, conditioning 3 times a week, hitting 3 - 4 five gallon buckets of balls off a tee in a net 2 times a week, pitching at least every other day for an hour, getting in some fielding when you can squeeze it in...
studying, homework and getting straight "A's"...
yea, it's not easy...

 

[tankerlab]

I don't have this number but I'd love to see how many girls playing college softball on at least a partial Athletic scholarship
at D-1, D-2 and NAIA schools DID NOT Play TRAVEL BALL?

 

[tankerlab]

This is what I am screaming!!! See you agree!

Absolutely! I just think it's bad advise to tell people "don't have your kid play Travel ball, it makes no difference on them playing in college if they played travel ball or not... "
I think it does. Not saying it's the only way, just the most common...

 

[mike_dyer]

I don't have this number but I'd love to see how many girls playing college softball on at least a partial Athletic scholarship
at D-1, D-2 and NAIA schools DID NOT Play TRAVEL BALL?

My kid got absolutely nothing out of playing "travel ball."

The post directly above this one lays out the road map. My kid didn't do hitting lessons and she's not a pitcher. She also got squat out of any of her coaches on any travel ball team she ever played on. If your daughter does all of those things that you posted there she doesn't need to play on a "travel" team. It's really not going to make her better than she is making herself.

I just thought of something really funny. When she played on her 1st "BIG" team one of the parents came over to me and said something like "These guys are GREAT coaches, they teach all of this new Kobata fielding stuff..."

We had just got on the boat so I didn't feel like rocking it and telling him that my kid had been working on "this new Kobata stuff" for 5 years or so and that Howard Kobata started teaching that "new Kobata stuff" lllooonnnggggg before that. Rec ball kids in our town ran through the same drills our high rent club team ran through 3 or 4 nights a week all summer long.

 

[Pacerdad57]

You play for the experience first and foremost. No one has EVER claimed this travel thing a "good investment" If we all looked at it from a dollar and cents POV you are correct its a losing proposition. If money is a driving factor of club level ball you should walk away now. Unless there is a true " Full Ride" I don't think any family comes out ahead in a $ standpoint. If the average travel season is $5000-$10,000 depending on schedule, you could put that money in a mattress and after 5 years have $20,000 on the end and upwards of $50,000 on the high end. Invest at 3% compounded over that same time, more like $30-$60K. Do it during the last 3 months in say stocker symbol FAS, or BAC or JPM and you're up double that! Or you can roll to the JACK and pick red or black and double right up! Point is no one got in this dance because it was financially sound! You play at the highest level you can afford and expect nothing but a great experience, which someday yr DD thanks you for!

have to totally agree with WOW. if the kid wants to play travel, then let her, from what i've seen it is a great way to build experience and become a better player. i'm a firm believer that to get better you need game reps, game practices and the team atmosphere. not every kid is a freakin stud that can just walk onto a D1 team and get their ticket punched. some kids (the majority of them) play travel because they LOVE the game!! search teams, get the right fit, and it is a great experience for your DD and the parents. most still do the 3-5 buckets of balls, the hitting lessons , and in our case the pitching lessons too, and STILL gain some great experience from playing travel, and school ball.
a lot of girls are quite happy with a college career in D3, D2 or NAIA ball, not everyone aspires to go to a D1 school, again a love for the game and the chance to play while getting an education is enough for a lot of girls. and if most parents think that hitting balls, and taking hitting lessons are gonna get them that big full ride, there are going to be a lot of unhappy people out there. it's for the experience, we had things we will remember and laugh and smile about until the day i die. my DD has bonded with us in ways that never would've happened if we hadn't played travel. sure there have been bad times, bad coaches and bad teams, but there have been WAY more positives than negatives for her while playing travel ball.
wouldn't have traded this ride for anything, and i'm looking forward to another couple of seasons before college!
she may not be a stud/freakly gifted athlete with a D1 committ, but she's a hell of a good, well adjusted college bound and most of all HAPPY kid!!

 

[wow]

I think we are all in the same ballpark, (ha! )on this topic. Except maybe with Dyer and the "no travel" concept.

Play at the highest level you can, work really damn hard, and enjoy the ride. No regrets on schedule, team, or whether lessons are important. Be at the clinics for the schools you're interested in, write to coaches, forge great relationships, and good things will happen. I just never thought of it as dollars and sense proposition.

Its like baking a cake, you need the right ingredients. Skip one and you will still have a cake, is just a matter how good it is.

 

[brownsfan]

My kid got absolutely nothing out of playing "travel ball."

Dude, what ever you're on I want some. . How can you say playing travel ball doesn't make you better? Practicing 24/7 does NOT make you a better player. It's the games that reinforces whether or not you're getting better as a player or not. I have two perfect examples.

Last year, the Indians were no way expected to do what they did. One of the youngest teams in baseball. Now, we also include CBJ, the youngest team in hockey. They are tied for the 1 seed. It's taking the games to expose weaknesses. Then during practice, they work on those weaknesses. Then they see whether or not they fixed those weaknesses. But they may play a team that expose something else.

It's an ongoing cycle. As I told my dd back at 9U, if you want to be the best in the city, play kids inside your city AND outside the city. If you want to be the best in your county, play kids inside your county AND outside your county. So forth. Now I'm telling her that the practice is homework and the games are the test. The test is pass/fail only dependent on the criteria.

Now if you're doing this to get giggles out of this, let me say I'm giggling too with some of your stuff.

 

[brownsfan]

Now onto the topic, nothing different for my younger dd. My older one, tough to say. When we chatted, she wished she played travel more, especially more on a localized schedule.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

I think the point could be better stated - that you only get out of the game what you put in to it. If your talented and willing to work hard - you can be on any team and still get college looks (if you attend camps and contact coaches)

Wearing one of the NAME BRAND jerseys does not make coaches notice you - the reason those teams have so many signings is because they have convinced the girls with talent and the willingness to work hard that they NEED to come to their organization to get signed when in fact those girls would get the same look if they played for there old team their school team or no team - Coaches are looking for talent.
Once found that coach may ask you to join an elite team for the summer to stay sharp - But...
no organization makes a girl into a D1 athlete if she doesn't have it in her to begin with and if it's in there you can play for anyone and coaches will see it if you market your self correctly.

 

[c12los]

Wouldn't change anything. My daughters softball career (travel & high school) was unique with ups and downs and she is the person she is today because of them. She wouldn't have grown as a person and player if done differently.

 

[wow]

I think the point could be better stated - that you only get out of the game what you put in to it. If your talented and willing to work hard - you can be on any team and still get college looks (if you attend camps and contact coaches)

Wearing one of the NAME BRAND jerseys does not make coaches notice you - the reason those teams have so many signings is because they have convinced the girls with talent and the willingness to work hard that they NEED to come to their organization to get signed when in fact those girls would get the same look if they played for there old team their school team or no team - .

Cobb- I agree with most everything you say. The only caveat is that it matters who you play and who you play for. Again not saying you CANT get recruited but it helps to play at the highest level you can. You certainly cant put a average player on an elite team and WHALLA, you have a full ride offer from D1PWR5. College coaches can not be everywhere and can only be at certain tournaments. With this being said many of these turnys require you to play a very high level of ball just to be accepted. Stingrays come to mind as an example and clearly not everyone gets in. I do agree the organization does not make the D1 player. However to say you can play for anyone? Yes marketing helps, but there is no substitute for coaches seeing live play!

 

[cobb_of_fury]

Cobb- I agree with most everything you say. The only caveat is that it matters who you play and who you play for. Again not saying you CANT get recruited but it helps to play at the highest level you can. You certainly cant put a average player on an elite team and WHALLA, you have a full ride offer from D1PWR5. College coaches can not be everywhere and can only be at certain tournaments. With this being said many of these turnys require you to play a very high level of ball just to be accepted. Stingrays come to mind as an example and clearly not everyone gets in. I do agree the organization does not make the D1 player. However to say you can play for anyone? Yes marketing helps, but there is no substitute for coaches seeing live play!

WOW - you have pointed out a conundrum - That is kind of self fulfilling - most coaches go to the good tournaments and only the "BEST" teams get in to those tournaments so unless your on those "Best" teams you don't get seen there. BUT...

Bare in mind - Coaches very rarely "Discover" girls at showcases - they are typically there to see specific girls who have done all the due diligence and contacted them etc. so yes you and your average team are locked out that way BUT most of the major tournaments have individual showcases attached to them where college coaches will come to see the girls that they are tracking be put through their paces (whether they are playing in the tournament or not) - The showcases (like camps and clinics) allow the coaches to quantify the tangibles, which college coaches tend to like a lot - Now the showcase games do allow the coach to see the intangibles but only small snippets and only what happens live. So while that's of some value it's not completely invaluable and is only part of the equation.

I think as athletes you should always try to RISE UP - and play the best competition available - but I think there is a mind set that if you are not on a named team you cant reach your potential - and that is incorrect.

 

[tjsmize3]

...the reason those teams have so many signings is because they have convinced the girls with talent and the willingness to work hard that they NEED to come to their organization to get signed when in fact those girls would get the same look if they played for there old team their school team or no team

I think as athletes you should always try to RISE UP - and play the best competition available - but I think there is a mind set that if you are not on a named team you cant reach your potential - and that is incorrect.

The first sentence is an absolutely ridiculous thing to come on here and say. Portraying "named" organizations as being successful because they somehow all got together and figured out that if they hoodwinked the public into believing that the only way to become a D1 player is to be a part of one of them is just not true. Our organization, for instance, puts directly in the signed player agreement that it is an EXPECTATION that you are working on your own and with a hitting/pitching coach away from games and practices. No one is being told that they will be "made" into a D1 player by the org. Secondly, saying that a talented player who works hard could get the SAME LOOK playing for a "named team" vs. "no team" is misinforming people. We have had in less than 12 months time coaches from Mizzou, Penn State and Marshall come to OH/PA and say just the opposite. Aaron Earlywine was here last summer and flat out told a camp full of kids and parents he chooses from 40 orgs nationwide, goes to 5 tournaments and that's it. He could care less if you go to his camp or not because if he doesn't already know you he is not watching anyway... those are near quotes from the coach so I don't think he is trying to hide that fact from anyone. Other schools may not be quite as stringent in their recruiting as Mizzou, but they seem in large part to agree that where you play and who you are playing matters a lot!
The reality of recruiting is that there is a talent pool of about 150-250 STANDOUT kids nationwide that everyone wants. Mostly, these ARE NOT our kids. These are your future All-American candidates -- "5-star players." Schools will try to get as many of them as they can. The next 1500 - 2500 kids are all D1 capable players, but there are simply not enough D1 spots to offer all of them. For most of us, this is the level our kids are at. Most D1 coaches that want to build their programs and keep their jobs will cautiously select from this pool based on a lot of vetting... schedule, org played for, recommendations from trusted sources, upside, how she looked in games, etc... Every year there are literally hundreds of D1 capable players who don't get an offer because they lost out to an equally talented girl who just had a better pedigree... period!

Now I do agree with your last sentence and I think it is true for the most part. Reaching your potential has to do with a decision a person makes and has everything to do with discipline and hard work... not who you play for. But in terms of maximizing your odds of being recruited, that is a different story.

 

[tankerlab]

Everyone has good points here. Bottom line though is I just don't see how a kid can get "Nothing" from Travel Ball?
and would still like to know how many girls playing college softball did not play travel ball?
In my daughters case, the scholarship occurred from first going to a connect camp in Knoxville. She was at a pitching camp. She had Tenn. State University , Middle Tenn. Belmont, Lee University and Tenn Tech all interested and talking with her after the camp. All coaches asked her to e mail them her summer Schedule so they could see her PLAY IN A TRAVEL BALL GAME! She continued to keep in touch with each of those schools. E mailing on a regular basis. Her Travel Team was scheduled to play in Scenic City Chattanooga and then the Nashville Elite Tournament the following weekend.
Just before arriving in Tenn. She e mailed each college coach her TRAVEL BALL schedule.
she attended the Scenic City College Camp the day before the tournament. In the scrimmages she did very well both pitching and hitting. The Tenn State University, Middle Tenn and Belmont all D-1 noticed her.
the biggest thing that happened was her TRAVEL BALL coach from Freedom Elite in Ohio noticed they were interested and he talked their legs off promoting her!
Trevecca. D-2 was also interested.
i was in the stands and heard the conversation and heard her TRAVEL BALL coach talking to Tenn State University coach.
he said he liked her and was interested. He asked what her TRAVEL BALL schedule was at Nashville Elite the next week. He was at her first game. Coach pitched her. Second game Middle Tenn came up and asked to see her in game... Third game Tenn State was back and a Trevecca asked to see her.
next came Belmont... Until she pitched so many games the coach had to sit her!
the Tenn State Coach watched 6 of her Travel Ball Games and he even stayed and watched the sixth when she didn't even play at all! After that game he came up to Travel ball coach and said he saw what he we wanted. Especially how she interacted the last game on the bench cheering and lifting teammates and helping catcher with gear...
he said, have her visit the school before she leaves. We did. He made full Ride Athletic scholarship offer to her coach to relay to us! She waited a year, looked at other schools and committed before her Junior year in High School.
This would not have happened if she did not play TRAVEL BALL! The other 10 girls on her Travel team have similar stories with athletic scholarships! By the way, the two D-3 girls are probably two of the best atheletes on her travel team. They went D-3 because they wanted to go there. Bottom line they all are getting a college education and playing softball in college and it would not have happened without TRAVEL BALL...

 

[cobb_of_fury]

The first sentence is an absolutely ridiculous thing to come on here and say. Portraying "named" organizations as being successful because they somehow all got together and figured out that if they hoodwinked the public into believing that the only way to become a D1 player is to be a part of one of them is just not true. QUOTE]

Tom - I am not saying that NAMED organizations are successful BECAUSE they have convinced the public that you HAVE to play for them to get signed - Just saying that those teams have (actively or passively) gotten people convinced that the ONLY way to play in college is through them. It's because those teams are successful on the field that they have the "gravitas" that people believe that to be true. I have had people tell me they want to go to organization X because they were told if they go there, their daughter will be able to go D1.

If your saying Earlywine, and Lehotak said they are only looking at specific organizations I believe you - But most girls in OH/PA and Most girls even in your organization aren't going to Mizzou - or Penn State or Ohio State or Pitt - they are going to Mid-Majors, D2's or D3's if at all.

I did not mean to knock any organization and I probably should not have used the active Verb "Convinced" but people do believe they MUST be in an elite program or they will not get offers - I am trying to refute that.
You are probably correct they may not get looks from Ehren Earlywine But that was probably not going to happen for most girls anyway - But those girls CAN get good offers from great schools if THEY do the work.

Great athletes should aspire to play at the highest level that they can achieve and that's why these named organizations have a place - I just want to make it clear that is not the only path to a scholarship.

 

[mike_dyer]

Bare in mind - Coaches very rarely "Discover" girls at showcases

This is true.

At a certain point, I don't remember when, it became clear to me that there is no such thing as a tryout.

 

[wow]

This is true.

At a certain point, I don't remember when, it became clear to me that there is no such thing as a tryout.

That's so true. Club ball is a small world and at some point, very early on, folks kinda know who the contenders are. By the time tryouts get here its not really a tryout. Think of it as a large corporation. They post the position because they have too and its politically correct. You have to have the appearance everyone has a equal shot, right? Then only to find out a "internal candidate" received the job! Why waste everyone's time interviewing if the candidate was preordained? Try outs are the same way. Now can a unknown show up and impress the coaches? Of course but its gotta be rare! But I don't want to throw a damper on the try out process.....

 

[wow]

If your saying Earlywine, and Lehotak said they are only looking at specific organizations I believe you - But most girls in OH/PA and Most girls even in your organization aren't going to Mizzou - or Penn State or Ohio State or Pitt - they are going to Mid-Majors, D2's or D3's if at all.

I don't think there were specific schools for specific organizations, rather examples of those who have recently recruited from Ohio. BOTH coaches pulled from different organizations, Penn State pulled multiple. As far as which organization has the most D1 recruits from Ohio in the last 3-4 years, well I will let others help out with the numbers.. I am sure you will be surprised Cobb!

 

[mike_dyer]

As far as which organization has the most D1 recruits from Ohio in the last 3-4 years, well I will let others help out with the numbers.. I am sure you will be surprised Cobb!

I'm proud to say that the head of no organization nor any coach can point at my kid and say "I did that!" in some kind of I can pee further than that other guy so pay me scheme.

That is one thing I would NOT do differently.