Why would a coach do this? (The Softball Zone Radio Show Thread of the Week)

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Re: Why would a coach do this?

I had to learn the hard way that what you and Tim and others had told me is true. Everyone knows I took my OFC lumps! Enjoy the game and the time with your DD. Its a journey and not a race. B4 you know it its all over!

Yeah, we went a round or two. Its like the father and son bulls on the hill story. These knuckleheads will come around eventually also.

 

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I just hope this Parent/Coach/Umpire/Rule Adjuster as it seems to fit him will actually go back & read the rule book & not ***-U-ME & ruin another kid or teams efforts.........

 

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Maybe CZ is trying to see how many times his posts can be the radio thread of the week?

 

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Re: Why would a coach do this?

But I've seen home runs nullified for missing a base and removing helmet before stepping on home plate, didn't change the fact that the ball was hit over the fence and the player was upset. Is the coach who appealed the missed base an A-hole for making the appeal?

What if a defensive player on the field saw a base being missed during a home run trot and protested on their own???

 

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Re: Why would a coach do this?

Did anyone else's mother ever teach them that "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?" I am almost as bothered by the piling on here as what started it all. Trust me, if you have never stepped in dog ****, one day you will. Just hope it doesn't get blown up on OFC! True CZ needs to learn when to shut up. I get why Matt feels bad but who is really at fault? In all reality the umpire should have said "nice try" and laughted him off. The fact that he didn't is the epic fail in all of this. But I've seen home runs nullified for missing a base and removing helmet before stepping on home plate, didn't change the fact that the ball was hit over the fence and the player was upset. Is the coach who appealed the missed base an A-hole for making the appeal? There are worse things in life I think a lot of people should get over it.

There were TWO umpires at fault - CZ and the one working the game. Both should be reported to their assigners for retraining.

 

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Personally, I couldn't see taking a legitimate fence-clearing Home Run away from any 10 year old for any reason. She can miss all the bases, as far as I'm concerned. Being the opposing coach in that situation, I would most likely applaud her efforts and congratulate her at the post game lineup.

At 14U on up, the players themselves should understand and be held a little more accountable to the intricacies of the rules of the game. Those are some of the things that should be talked about in practices from time to time, in order to get them ready to adhere to the strict rules of the game as they age and progress as players. I could never fathom holding a 10 year old, who might have just gotten one of her first home runs, to a strict interpretation of the rules in a rare and special moment of exuberance.

 

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Re: Why would a coach do this?

What if a defensive player on the field saw a base being missed during a home run trot and protested on their own???

In my opinion, the touching of the bases after putting one out is just a formality, therefore, too much emphasis is placed on touching them all. If you hit one out, it is not like missing a base makes it a fieldable ball. It goes out, nobody is catching it or making a play on the batter. Yes, I understand it is a rule and yes I agree we need to play by the rules. That is one rule I think needs gotten rid of. Myself, I would be cool with the HR trot being optional. As I said, if you put it out, baserunning is just a formality.

 

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Re: Why would a coach do this?

In my opinion, the touching of the bases after putting one out is just a formality, therefore, too much emphasis is placed on touching them all. If you hit one out, it is not like missing a base makes it a fieldable ball. It goes out, nobody is catching it or making a play on the batter. Yes, I understand it is a rule and yes I agree we need to play by the rules. That is one rule I think needs gotten rid of. Myself, I would be cool with the HR trot being optional. As I said, if you put it out, baserunning is just a formality.

Heck, if the option was not running the bases my dd might always try to go yard.................. LOL

 

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All,
Please let me set this record straight. First off, I now know that this in fact is NOT a rule violation. At the time I legitimately thought it was, since I know it was enforced in a tournament last year. I remembered being told about it. I'm specifically referring to the legality of the situation not the morality of it. What I should have done after I heard about it last year was to research the rule myself, to see what rule was actually applied. As an umpire I should have done that research. I did not do that and that was my mistake. I have also been told that this is an often enforced situation, which we now know it should not be. Maybe some good will come of this situation, because this will draw so much attention to a myth that is mis-applied. (Again, this is purely what I'm told...I cannot personally attest to having seen this applied many times.)


This rule was enforced late last year and I remembered it. It was that experience that I drew upon which led me to believe that this was in fact a rule violation. This is why I told Matt about this infraction. It was brought to the umpire's attention and it was again mistakenly applied. Matt was not 100% clear about the rule, nor was I, but I was trusting the precedent that was set by that former ruling. Looking back, we both know that this entire situation is wrong and we both regret that it happened. There's nothing we can do to un-do the situation other than learn from it and be sure it never happens again.
I truly apologize to the young girl on the Slammers who hit that shot. It was a fantastic hit and I'm glad that Matt had his team presented that girl with a signed ball. The hit will never be taken away.


On a personal note, there have been many personal attacks on my character and my reputation. I am not a bad guy. I am a good coach. I have a deep passion for this game and for teaching the game to young girls which drives me to spend countless hours every week teaching, planning, coaching, etc. Those who know me, know that I am a dedicated and extremely hard working coach who gives his entire heart to teaching and coaching this game. I love talking about this game, about the players and what teams have great defenses, how such & such is pitching or hitting, etc. I enjoy talking to and I try to emulate the great coaches out there for I see the good that they do and I try to be like them. I do not sell altered bats nor do not I have any altered bats on my team so don't believe any of that because it is not true. I never have any bad intentions towards any player or team out there. Ever. I applaud and congratulate defensive players on opposing teams when they make great plays and I do that from the bottom of my heart. My team recognizes a player on the opposing team with a "Player of the Game" medal at the end of every pool play game, win or lose and that is the absolute BEST part of my entire tournament. I get to recognize that young girl in front of her teammates and my team and they all clap for her. I have been coaching youth sports for 7 years, 4 of them in travel softball and I absolutely LOVE it. I have been an umpire for 4 years and I believe I have at least average knowledge of the rules. (Missed out on this one...I admit that. I am not perfect and nobody is.)


I have posted over 600 times on this forum and there are only one or two that I regret. My batting average is pretty good. .


The girls who have played for me have always had positive experiences and I have left an indelible impression on them. I strive to be the coach that they tell their kids about, that I may bump into at the county fair 25 years from now and they say to their children, "THIS is Coach Chris....the coach I told you about....my best coach ever." That is my dream.


I honestly regret ever bringing up this rule this last weekend and I regret suggesting to Matt that it be envoked. I wish it had never happened and I'm very sorry it did. It was a mistake and I have learned from this.




CZ

 

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In the heat of the moment we all do things we regret. I have no excuses only explanations. Allow me to set the stage. 2 times previously we have faced the slammers in pool play. The first one ended in a pitching duel 3-0. The second in not so dramatic fashion with the slammers run ruling us. This past game in question was bracket play with the slammers being the home team, they were up 5-2 bottom of 4 with under 3 minutes to go in regulation and we were trying to get our 3rd out to get another opportunity to hit before time expired. Then the girl in question came up to bat and launched a 180'+ BOMB over right center field. One of those type hits that you know it's out as soon as it leaves the bat. I did not see the player get assisted nor did I say anything to the umpire. Here is the problem- I am 100% responsible for not only the way my players and assistant coaches act, but also the way the parents of my players act. What happens on the field and in my dugout is my responsibility. I made a HUGE mistake by not putting a stop to it, when I knew morally that was the right thing to do. Technically a rule was violated, morally, that violation didn't assist the ball in going over the fence.

***By saying "technically a rule was violated" I was speaking in the moment of the game based on the advice given to me by an NSA umpire who happens to also be a parent. This happened Sunday prior to the clarification. I believe it is understood now by numerous posts that this is not a violation of the rules. ****

I felt horrible the second that the umpire left the conference and put his fist in the air. The only thing I knew to do was to instruct my girls to get a ball and sign it for that girl. My apologies to her and her family and the Slammers team. It is and will remain a home run in my eyes. This is not indicative of the way that I coach or teach the game- those who know me, know this to be true. Those who don't can question my integrity all day long. Bottom line is this- I made a mistake in a game that I was trying to give my girls every opportunity to win. I feel like if I don't fight for my girls, then why should they fight for me? And what times/ rules are my girls worth fighting for and which times/ rules are they not? I obviously took that too far. It was a mistake that I won't ever forget as I would never want a girl to feel any less about herself after a shot like that. I explained this to my team after the game and admitted to them that I made a mistake morally, and explained to them why I did it. It doesn't make the situation any better. But like I tell my girls on a daily basis- learn from your errors, don't let one mistake turn into 2 or 3, and learn from it so the you can make the right play next time. I've learned from my mistake and I know I will not allow a situation like that again.

Matt you are the same coach, that coached Storm 98 from last year, if I am not mistaken. You were at a tournament in Marion and a girl on the other team smoked a ball over the fence in centerfield. You argued the call forever to convince him the the ball bounced over the fence, pretty sad, that umpire is a joke and should have never been umpiring, but that is besides the point. What makes it even worst your very own center fielder and everyone else that was watching the game said it clearly went over the fence.

So sad you are trying to rob another girl of her homerun, actually it is quite pathetic. The only time its against the rules is if the coach or player is assisting the player and if you think after a ball has cleared the fence and a player or coach touches the player its assisting them you have some issues.

You should really question your own character of judgement here and parents that have him as a coach should really look at the big picture of what message he is really trying to send people/kids/whoever.

 

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In a 14U game a few weeks ago, our pitcher gave up a HR.. As the hitter was rounding the bases, she missed 3rd base on her way home. Our catcher, pointed at 3b and said she missed it. After a new ball was thrown in, the catcher told the pitcher to throw it to our 3b who stepped on the bag. The umpire held up the fist and called the out. I had a mix of emotions... I felt bad for the girl who just had a HR taken away, but I was excited that my young catcher (still 12yrs old) was aware of the situation and so heads up that she noticed that the bag was missed.

That HR would have had no bearing on the outcome of the game. I am still not sure what I would have done if I saw the bag missed, but I wasnt about to tell my player who saw it, to sweep it under the rug.

I know the opposing coach pretty well. He told me that was the girls 1st HR and that she told him she missed 1st base too. Made me feel even worse!!

 

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View attachment 1662
Robbing a girl of a true homerun, was that because she didn't have one of your shaved/rolled bats?

 

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Here's what Ricky and I would like to talk about on the show tonight ... we don't want to talk about this particular situation because again, a rule was misapplied by an umpire, and it should have never happened ... the question in my mind is how much a youth coach should inject themselves into the outcomes of youth games. It has been stated here, and I am pretty sure that I have even made the statement in the past that one of my responsibilities is a coach is to do everything I can to help my team to win. But is that really a primary responsibility or not I think is the question. If we take the situation of a player missing a base on a home run trot, should a coach appeal this? If we're playing in a time limit game, should a coach sometimes stall or speed up a game to help his or her team win? If a team makes an illegal substitution in a youth game, should an opposing coach point it out right away, or wait until it might advantage his or her team?

I am pretty sure that some people will answer this question yes, others no, and others may not be sure. The contrarian view is that you might be taking the game out of the hands of the kids or, worse yet, teaching them the wrong behavior altogether.

To Jeff Steiner's example, I think it is altogether different if a young player points this out. I too would have had mixed emotions on this one, but would have been proud of my player for knowing the rules and being attentive. It's also altogether different if you're talking about a college coach who is paid to win, not to mention the fact that we're talking about adult ballplayers who better know the rules and not let this kind of thing happen to them.

 

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Re: Why would a coach do this?

What if a defensive player on the field saw a base being missed during a home run trot and protested on their own???

You had to go there didn't you (this being in all fun). The edit was to remove this section, seeing it actually happened.

If we're talking at 10U very tough call because the girl is obviously a student of the game. At 12U, still tough as girls are more powerful while girls are becoming more students of the game. At 14U, girl who jaks the HR should know better, and the defensive player wins.

 

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All,
Please let me set this record straight. First off, I now know that this in fact is NOT a rule violation. At the time I legitimately thought it was, since I know it was enforced in a tournament last year. I remembered being told about it. I'm specifically referring to the legality of the situation not the morality of it. What I should have done after I heard about it last year was to research the rule myself, to see what rule was actually applied. As an umpire I should have done that research. I did not do that and that was my mistake. I have also been told that this is an often enforced situation, which we now know it should not be. Maybe some good will come of this situation, because this will draw so much attention to a myth that is mis-applied. (Again, this is purely what I'm told...I cannot personally attest to having seen this applied many times.)


This rule was enforced late last year and I remembered it. It was that experience that I drew upon which led me to believe that this was in fact a rule violation. This is why I told Matt about this infraction. It was brought to the umpire's attention and it was again mistakenly applied. Matt was not 100% clear about the rule, nor was I, but I was trusting the precedent that was set by that former ruling. Looking back, we both know that this entire situation is wrong and we both regret that it happened. There's nothing we can do to un-do the situation other than learn from it and be sure it never happens again.
I truly apologize to the young girl on the Slammers who hit that shot. It was a fantastic hit and I'm glad that Matt had his team presented that girl with a signed ball. The hit will never be taken away.


On a personal note, there have been many personal attacks on my character and my reputation. I am not a bad guy. I am a good coach. I have a deep passion for this game and for teaching the game to young girls which drives me to spend countless hours every week teaching, planning, coaching, etc. Those who know me, know that I am a dedicated and extremely hard working coach who gives his entire heart to teaching and coaching this game. I love talking about this game, about the players and what teams have great defenses, how such & such is pitching or hitting, etc. I enjoy talking to and I try to emulate the great coaches out there for I see the good that they do and I try to be like them. I do not sell altered bats nor do not I have any altered bats on my team so don't believe any of that because it is not true. I never have any bad intentions towards any player or team out there. Ever. I applaud and congratulate defensive players on opposing teams when they make great plays and I do that from the bottom of my heart. My team recognizes a player on the opposing team with a "Player of the Game" medal at the end of every pool play game, win or lose and that is the absolute BEST part of my entire tournament. I get to recognize that young girl in front of her teammates and my team and they all clap for her. I have been coaching youth sports for 7 years, 4 of them in travel softball and I absolutely LOVE it. I have been an umpire for 4 years and I believe I have at least average knowledge of the rules. (Missed out on this one...I admit that. I am not perfect and nobody is.)


I have posted over 600 times on this forum and there are only one or two that I regret. My batting average is pretty good. .


The girls who have played for me have always had positive experiences and I have left an indelible impression on them. I strive to be the coach that they tell their kids about, that I may bump into at the county fair 25 years from now and they say to their children, "THIS is Coach Chris....the coach I told you about....my best coach ever." That is my dream.


I honestly regret ever bringing up this rule this last weekend and I regret suggesting to Matt that it be envoked. I wish it had never happened and I'm very sorry it did. It was a mistake and I have learned from this.




CZ

Then why bring up a scenario then?

 

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I wish it had never happened and I'm very sorry it did. It was a mistake and I have learned from this.

Until after the weekend, when the next episode happens. I would suggest sitting your *** in a folding chair and WATCH a game.

 

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I think in this case CZ has admitted he screwed up. I'm a big believer in forgiving and forget it, an move on !

If I didn't I would be t-off 24/7.

I would mine having people calling in the show tonight and open this up for discussion.

Mistake are made by everyone...... except Hitter... lol

 

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In a 14U game a few weeks ago, our pitcher gave up a HR.. As the hitter was rounding the bases, she missed 3rd base on her way home. Our catcher, pointed at 3b and said she missed it. After a new ball was thrown in, the catcher told the pitcher to throw it to our 3b who stepped on the bag. The umpire held up the fist and called the out. I had a mix of emotions... I felt bad for the girl who just had a HR taken away, but I was excited that my young catcher (still 12yrs old) was aware of the situation and so heads up that she noticed that the bag was missed.

That's awesome. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes though.

 

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I think in this case CZ has admitted he screwed up. I'm a big believer in forgiving and forget it, an move on !

If I didn't I would be t-off 24/7.

I would mine having people calling in the show tonight and open this up for discussion.

Mistake are made by everyone...... except Hitter... lol

We are taking inner thoughts here, true character. Not just a misunderstood rule, but the fact that you would slaughter the heart of a innocent girl to take back a meaningless HR in the game at the same time tarnish a life long memory. Who of you remember your DD 1st HR? Rick? How would you feel if your life long memory of her 1st was this situation?

I have made PLENTY of mistakes and have questioned my own character. You dont get a free pass you have to earn it. So I guess we will see.

The Umpires I will remember my whole life are the ones that see these girls for what they are "Dreamers". Hey coach she is not gaining anything just tell her to try and fix her drag foot. Not be a Dbag and twist the knife on a pitcher who is 9 years old because of her drag foot. Rule or not it is our job as coaches, parents, officals to teach the game and fuel the passion and fire these kids have.

Stop chasing the OFC coaches poll and start chasing the dreams that these little girls have.

If you sit back and look deep in your soul and hate on a team that is better then you or a player that jacks HR off your team you my friend belong as far away from youth sports that you can get.

 

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...This is why I told Matt about this infraction...

Enough already! For the umpteenth time IT WASN'T AN INFRACTION. Quit referring to it as one in an attempt to justify your actions. And stop tooting your own horn by telling everyone how much you're in it for the kids. In the heat of the moment you showed your true colors. You ruined a special moment for a little 10 year old girl. I hope you're proud. As far as that signed ball you had your team sign, I hope the girl's parents told you to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.