Wow (again)

[Heavy Hitter]

Wow… is all I can say. I just read this thread and it took 30 post before anyone mentioned or even showed any concern about the girl. This is a sad situation, all I could originally think of after I read the article is what if this was my daughter? What would I have done? But, having a little time to think about it and being a coach myself, I couldn't imagine being in Coach Linders shoes. What would I do if it was my son? This is news and we should be able to discuss it. If you don't like it, then don't read the thread. But quit trying to sensor us. .

 

[crystlemc]

duplicate...oops

 

[crystlemc]

I have a 22 year old son and I get on his case if he is disrespectful to his girlfriend. I'm pretty certain I would not cover up that type of behavior. Would it break my heart? Absolutely!! However, if my son were to rape someone, then clearly he hadn't had enough consequences growing up and I failed him. Nobody has a right to violate another person that way and get away with it. That girl will now spend the rest of her life dealing with all the fallout from that violation.

Plus, she was victimized again by everyone at the university who failed to act on her behalf. She is in my prayers.

 

[coachjwb]

Definitely more info in the deadspin story ... seemingly fills in some of the gaps from the first article ... ugh ...

 

[Fairman]

It disturbs me as a parent that a close family such as a D1 Softball team made up of strong athletic females with 20+/- strong players would have to report at least TWO rapes in ONE year.

 

[WalkOffHR]

It's totally irrelevant to discuss the merits of the case or the what ifs. It's a fine line to walk between blaming a victim and dragging someone's reputation through the muck. This case shouldn't be tried here.

What IS relevant For OFC and the softball community is discussion on how this story (not the potential outcome or the merits) will affect the future of the program? Will top prospects scratch Kent State off their list of potential schools until this matter is resolved? Should 2017-18 verbals de-commit and move on? Does anyone think this will be a one and done coaching staff and Kent will clean house? If so how will that affect the class of 2017 and 2018? Those are fair discussion topics.

In short, if your DD verballed to a school and this story comes out, as a parent, what would you do?

 

[Stretch]

It's totally irrelevant to discuss the merits of the case or the what ifs. It's a fine line to walk between blaming a victim and dragging someone's reputation through the muck. This case shouldn't be tried here.

What IS relevant For OFC and the softball community is discussion on how this story (not the potential outcome or the merits) will affect the future of the program? Will top prospects scratch Kent State off their list of potential schools until this matter is resolved? Should 2017-18 verbals de-commit and move on? Does anyone think this will be a one and done coaching staff and Kent will clean house? If so how will that affect the class of 2017 and 2018? Those are fair discussion topics.

Great reply.

Other than the obvious concerns, what would concern me as a prospective player / parent are items 127 - 142 of the complaint.

Including link only in case others cannot find complaint filed:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/inde...coach_for_covering_up_rape_by_coachs_son.html

 

[crystlemc]

Well, I can say that I know of a couple organizations who are cutting all ties with Linder. For some, it's just not worth the association.

As far as fair discussion topics, I think discussing the particulars most definitely has merit. If even one parent of an athlete who may be experiencing the same thing, learns something, then it's a good thing. If they learn about Title IX rules and application as it applies to NCAA, or learn that it's better to involve the authorities immediately, or learn that nobody is above the law, then the discussion was a good thing. If one kid, male or female, can be saved from going through the heartache of a lawsuit like this and dealing with the fallout as pertaining to their college career, then it's a good thing.

 

[lewam3]

Kent State hired a consulting firm to evaluate the sports programs and their viability last year.

 

[okiedad1961]

Truely a sad story for both family's.I guess this all started between the alleged impropriaty and the alleged victim of it.Suprised that it would be acceptable for any relation of a coach to be allowed anywhere near a player for the coachs team especially in a college environment.Also as in prior D1 programs w coverups (Penn State)the coach's bear the brunt of the blame for it,and the admin never seems to be affected as much.In this case the alleged inpropriotor family will be affected either way.Don't know and may never know what went on at the highest levels at the school on this case,but do know that the coach was great at what she did on the field.To not leave out the alleged victim,making this public may help her get through this,can't see this would be easy for any victim or family.Praying for both.

 

[Fairman]

I did discuss this with my college age dd about what her school has done to head off this type of disaster.

They have a mentor outside the athletic department that the athletes can go to for things that just don't seem right or for frustrations for guidance and counseling. That allows the athlete to discuss things with an advocate that isn't beholding to the AD or the coach. This system has a chance of protecting these athletes from abuse and retribution. This advocate would also allow the athlete to deal with legitimate frustration and disappointment without making a federal case out of it. However, if warranted, the student's advocate would be on her side to guide her through the process. Something that was clearly missing at Kent.

I thought the system was logical and could actually protect my dd and wondered if other schools had something similar.

 

[Sparty]

https://www.karenlindersoftball.com/

Hmmm...quite the website. Rather boastful considering things. She's missing one number 1 raped player by my own son. Because to me all those other achievements and "results" are rather meaningless when she failed to do right by her player.

I hope Lauren wins her suit. What she was put through by Linder and Kent State Athletics she deserves every penny.


Who'd send their daughter for some special Linder mental training?

 

[yossarian]

I tended agree with people who say we don't need to debate innocence or guilt. But this is a forum and I'm interested to hear how people really feel.


After reading that Deadspin article, I have to be honest that I've gone from telling myself "let the legal system do it's job and do not say anything about innocence or guilt" to where I'm at now, which is "IF the allegations aren't true, this young woman has a bright career as a Hollywood screen writer." It's hard to imagine the nuances of the story told are made up when you add them up. So I'll just say it, knowing I'll get some backlash: I'm inclined to believe this young woman's story.


For the people on their soapbox about not seeing enough concern for the girl, I'm sure there's not one of us who hasn't been feeling terrible about what's she's going through since reading the article. And there's not one of us who haven't imagined our daughters going through it.


Whether true or not, this could prove to be the most important thread ever posted on TSZ. It's a story about how a momentary lapse of good judgement can have massive damage on multiple lives. IF true, in a few short moments, a young man stole a young woman's right to enjoy her college education and athletic experiences that she no doubt earned through years of hard work. It breaks my heart to think about how the effects of that could impact her whole life. When my daughter gets a little older, I'm going to share all of this with her in the hopes that Lauren Kesterson's story can help her be more prepared for what's out there in the world.


I'm a level-headed person who's trying really hard to hold onto "guilty until proven innocent." When I think about the "entitlement" letter and reread the quote below, I can feel my blood boiling.


"Coach Linder also spread her message to Kent State alumni, prompting them to take to social media to condemn the "selfish" student-athlete and her parents who complained about Coach Linder. Coach Linder fostered and encouraged this narrative amongst her former players and participated in the creation of hostility against Ms. Kesterson for lodging her Title IX complaint against Coach Linder. That hostility infected the softball community including Ms. Kesterson's teammates who did not know what had really happened."


Sorry for the long rant.

 

[Sparty]

Linder didn't have a momentary lapse in judgement. She knew the protocol to report a rape for another player but not for Kesterson because the rape occurred at the hands of her son. This is obviously a really unique situation because she was a very winning long time softball coach and her son was on the school's baseball team. You wonder how much that kid deserved to be there without his mother's influence?

Because of her winning record she was probably given way too much benefit of the doubt by the school and alumni. The players weren't going to side against her because they want to play and win. A girl was callously allowed to suffer all this pain and humiliation and mental distress because Linder was a revered and respected and winning softball coach. Because winning is everything in life, right? How wrong is that?

Yes, this is an important discussion and anyone who wants to squelch it should put themselves in Lauren's or her parents place. I have no doubt this took a tremendous amount of courage to file this suite and come forward with the details of the rape and subsequent events. It's all very sickening.

 

[softballmom2000]

This story has been a great teaching tool for me as a parent with a DD who is in the college search process. It has given us the opportunity to discuss how the young woman may have put herself in a compromising and dangerous situation (I am not laying blame, just using it as a teaching moment for DD). It has also given me the chance to reiterate to my child that if anyone does this to you, no matter how the situation happened, if you said No and he kept going, then you need to report it immediately because it was rape, you only need to say No once. I was able to explain the Resident Adviser position at schools and how this person could be a huge asset for help with issues.

It has also given us a chance to seriously discuss if this environment at Kent is something she is willing to walk into. Kent has always been on DD's list of schools, after reading the entire complaint, she is just not so sure that is a place she would like to go to school. This really is a huge black eye on the program and the athletic department.

 

[coachjwb]

As yossarian says, I am quite sure 99.9% of the people who read this story here feel terribly for this young lady ... if for no other reason, because pretty much all of us here have daughters ourselves. I can't even imagine what she has gone through, and is probably still going through today as she tries to complete her education there but can no longer play softball.

Even so, the original story had a lot of gaps in it that you couldn't help but read and scratch your head about ... the deadspin story seemingly filled in some of those gaps. It does seems clear in that story that Coach Linder felt terribly about what had happened and, as tjsmize said earlier, I can't imagine what she was going through initially as both a parent and a coach. It does appear that there was some breakdown in the reporting that should have happened, but my guess is we will hear more about that down the road as to who was responsible for those breakdowns. Personally, I won't assume that everything I read in this or any other story is totally true. I have seen too many instances in the past where at least parts of stories have been fabricated or sensationalized ... sometimes by a victim, but other times by an attorney or the media.

What's 100% clear is that this whole situation is very, very sad ...

 

[WalkOffHR]

1. Civil suits often take years to finally go to trial.

2. Colleges have money to settle.

3. Settlements almost always have gag orders.

Don't assume that the full story will ever be known and certainly not in time for the class of 2017 prospects to base a decision on.

 

[crystlemc]

Well then, the class of 2017 prospects have to base their decision on theirs and their parents view of the incident as perceived at this time. I certainly wouldn't be taking the chance that maybe the school acted appropriately. That is my child and her wellbeing is first and foremost to me. Not whether the school may or may not have handled the situation properly. The only plus to this, in my mind (if my child were in the recruiting process), is that Coach Linder and her son are no longer a factor at that school.

 

[Pacerdad57]

after reading and rereading almost every post in this thread, i would almost certainly have to agree with crystlemc's last post. whether or not guilt is ever established, this is a situation that for me as a parent would be such a huge red flag as to clearly color my perception of the university involved. whether or not there is blame to be assessed in this situation, why would you risk your daughter's well being by placing her in a situation where at this point there isn't a clear cut answer to a solution, or even who did or didn't do what.
as to the "entitled" player speech, i took it last year as a completely different scenario than what is now coming out, and i certainly think this new knowledge influences my thoughts about the whole scenario and players. not at all what i thought was being alluded to without knowing what is now public knowledge.
i have to say there is an awful lot of detail for this to be completely fabricated, and there are a few details that would lead me to believe the victim. obviously not all of the evidence is anywhere near available, but it certainly would be enough to make me try hard to get my daughter to head elsewhere.
with knowledge aforehand i certainly wouldn't want my DD associated with that program. it's going top take some time to see what shakes out of this programwise. but it certainly for right now seems to be a large black eye for the university and their softball program.

 

[Stretch]

The only plus to this, in my mind (if my child were in the recruiting process), is that Coach Linder and her son are no longer a factor at that school.

True, but many of those named in the retaliation portion of the case still are.