Use stats or gut for lineup?

[thestuff142]

Looking for thoughts on this from experienced coaches....Wondering what coaches use to set their lineups....actual stats from fielding/hitting or do they use their gut as to who is hot bat, glove etc.

In an event...what determines changes in your batting order.

 

[coachtomv]

Great question. You cannot ignore stats, but you have to know your team. Chemistry is huge, leadership, communication, etc. No simple answer, really good coaches know their players and pick up on things not always measurable.

I think baseline best practices is where you start, basic softball 101 as far as setting up defense and line-ups. But first, what type players do you have? You can't play fast and use small ball with a team full of big power hitters, etc.

I would throw error stats right out the window, I hate them. If a player has "too many" it will play out and you will know, no need to hammer it or let it cloud your judgement by micro managing it. Use every error as a coachable moment to use in your next practice or during the game, but do it with tact and not to tear down your player(s). You can use really poor at bats also, like 3 bad swings and a K with players in scoring position, instead of trying to work the count to move runners. By teaching the game through moments like this, each player understands that your not attacking them, but just want them and the team to get better and every example is useful for that.

Batting avg is of course powerful, but still, does she bat .280, but have a ton of ROE, FC, low K's or solid hits that are being fielded? This is a case of a hitter hitting the ball, just stay with her and let her be a hitter. High K's are never good, that cannot be ignored and needs addressed, especially if a lot of short at bats.

The more you know your player(s) the easiest it is to adjust lineups as you go also. Communicate with them, so they understand the plan and why a change is needed. Many coaches are really not good at this.

I am a huge advocate of tons of actual games and scrimmages, some coaches are heavy into just practicing. I think both are essential, but games are where its at to determine where to play everyone to be most successful. Gives you time for some trial and error also, before big games come up. Let them play loose and fast and see where you need work and what they can do.

Just a few thoughts.

Good luck!

 

[Stedman00]

I would echo most of above, except ignoring defensive errors. ESPECIALLY, if the same player continues to make the same errors, regardless of instruction, training, repeated talks etc. If the player cannot get it in her head to play position X correctly, then maybe it's time to move her from position X. regardless of throwing a fit, player wishes, mom/dad argument, etc. Examples would repeatedly missing cut offs from outfield, wild throws from SS or 3B,

one other thing to use a tool is hitting stats in gamechanger and iscore. WITH the knowledge that information needs to be entered accurately. player metrics are easily accessed and utilized. Does player in question have a QAB % over 50%? % of Hard hit balls? Walk to K ratio? ETC. All these stats are easily accessed. AGAIN, information must be entered correctly. Cannot have the rose colored glasses on the operator with hits versus errors, etc.

 

[daboss]

Great answers by coachtomv and StedmanOO showing a lot of thought process in not only making decisions but to point out the need to address weaknesses that can be overcome. This gets the player into a posture she can work on her game and hard work with improvement will be rewarded. Notice I mention "with improvement" to make a point. Some kids never improve. Maybe they physically are unable to perform a task or they never truly understand the problem. Not everyone is a Superhero. There comes a time when we need to be realistic. It doesn't mean we quit trying. Normally a good coach can recognize the issues and find a suitable way to utilize a player's excelling qualities while giving her time to improve her weaknesses. That's what makes this game so favorable to play.

One of my pet peeves that has always made my skin crawl are the coaches that ignore a hitter's true weaknesses yet continues to leave a player in the batting line up because they saw a kid hit a home run at one point in her career. For some reason they believe this will become their saving grace and continue to leave her , not only in a position of power in the line up, but in the line up at all, with no stats to show it will or ever happen again. If asked, their first comment is "she's a power hitter" instead of admitting it was an anomaly. I've watched coaches leave a girl in the 4 slot for 4 years of high school because she hit an over-the-fence home run when she was 12 playing Rec ball. The kid might be batting .100 or less, yet talented base hitters remain on the bench due to this freak of nature. I've heard every excuse in the book to justify their reasoning. It doesn't fly with me. Numbers don't lie.

You want to be a good coach, learn humility and be willing to admit you are wrong. It's the first step to recovery............

 

[Stedman00]

Great answers by coachtomv and StedmanOO showing a lot of thought process in not only making decisions but to point out the need to address weaknesses that can be overcome. This gets the player into a posture she can work on her game and hard work with improvement will be rewarded. Notice I mention "with improvement" to make a point. Some kids never improve. Maybe they physically are unable to perform a task or they never truly understand the problem. Not everyone is a Superhero. There comes a time when we need to be realistic. It doesn't mean we quit trying. Normally a good coach can recognize the issues and find a suitable way to utilize a player's excelling qualities while giving her time to improve her weaknesses. That's what makes this game so favorable to play.

One of my pet peeves that has always made my skin crawl are the coaches that ignore a hitter's true weaknesses yet continues to leave a player in the batting line up because they saw a kid hit a home run at one point in her career. For some reason they believe this will become their saving grace and continue to leave her , not only in a position of power in the line up, but in the line up at all, with no stats to show it will or ever happen again. If asked, their first comment is "she's a power hitter" instead of admitting it was an anomaly. I've watched coaches leave a girl in the 4 slot for 4 years of high school because she hit an over-the-fence home run when she was 12 playing Rec ball. The kid might be batting .100 or less, yet talented base hitters remain on the bench due to this freak of nature. I've heard every excuse in the book to justify their reasoning. It doesn't fly with me. Numbers don't lie.

You want to be a good coach, learn humility and be willing to admit you are wrong. It's the first step to recovery............

DaBoss - repeatedly witnessed this exact thing mentioned in your 2nd paragraph. The 'wishful thinking" or 'genie in a bottle' line up maker. Let's leave the hitter batting .350 with a couple XBH or a dinger or 2, OBP also of .350, lots of K's in the line up ahead of the solid base hitter, batting .400, OBP approaching .600, fewest K on the team, on the bench. Happens every year in HS ball and is puzzling to say the least. Can't score if not on base.

 

[RacerX]

I'd have to say I went with gut/stats. We always had a few weaker hitters on tournament teams, but fielded ball well. I would put solid hitters in top 4, sprinkle a few slower runners / weaker hitters around the bottom of the lineup to see where they fit/hit best...and a speedster/power at the bottom to start the top off good. For the most part over several years with some of the same kids and a few each year that were new, we managed to have the hitters hitting in .650-.750 with OBP around .900. The weaker ones would start the tournament season off around .150 and work their way up...sometimes to .500 by end of schedule. They watched and learned the "good" hitters. There were a couple girls that might have only had a handful strike outs in 3-4 years of tournament play... With the schedule we looked for, we played probably 20 games in June/July. It was fun. After the 1st year coaching, I was always tasked with setting the lineup for some reason.

 

[tjsmize3]

I would say using "guts" to make line up decisions is not much better than using a "coin" to make line up decisions. Not a best practice! A coach needs to develop a plan of attack and line the girls up in the best way possible to achieve that plan.
Sometimes using ONLY stats can create big problems in your line up. For instance, if you have a 450 BA/550 OBP lead-off and 400 BA/500 OBP lefty slapper in the 2 spot you may want to check your last 20 games worth of outcomes. Does the lead-off consistently get on base only to be thrown out by the SS when the lefty slapper takes it to the left 9/10 times? Game Changer may show your lead-off has the best BA and OBP, but maybe in this case hitting her behind the lefty slapper yields better game outcomes (for the team and the players individually). Same thing happens sometimes putting a slower runner in front of a faster runner. Sometimes taking the 385 BA/485 OBP speedster and hitting her in the 4 spot and the 410 BA/ 410 OBP (12 HRs, 40 RBI) "cleanup hitter" in the 5 spot just makes more sense... and again, it may yield better game outcomes. I know these are pretty basic and obvious scenarios, but use stats to carry out a plan of attack, not just a straight batting order derived from the numbers alone.

 

[Passion4theGame]

☝
Spot on.

I am a big OBP person. Don’t care how u get on base just do your part and get there. But we have been running into the issue of lefty/slapper getting the one in front of her out 4/10 times. Gonna play around with it this weekend and mix it up a bit based on last 10 games and see what we come up with. Stats tell a lot but also agree with knowing your players. Gonna try sprinkling in the weaker OBP near the top and some speed down bottom. I’ve noticed the bottom half has not produced or pulled their weight so to say. So change is good.