With the terrible weather that we have been having during the last few weekends and multiple tournaments being canceled, what is happening with the bids. We had a tournament in Dayton canceled last weekend with only 4 teams in it and one of them was from Tennessee that jumped in it late, they canceled the tournament and used coin flips to give out the bid, and of course the team from Tennessee won the bid. Now we have canceled ASA States and 4 more bids are up for grabs. Seems to me that these bids should be won on the field and not by coin toss, or by some back door scheduling of small not very well advertised regional tournaments with 4 teams in them. None of this passes the smell test for me, if you are going to require a team to win a bid then they should be able to play the game to win it........
What happens to the USA/ASA bids????????????????????
- Thread starter cjs
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dannyboy
Member
There is a website called tournamentasa.com. If you are interested in knowing where the qualifiers are located, then all you have to do is visit the site, and sign up for it. The purpose of going to a qualifier is to get a berth. Attending a tournament with four teams greatly increases your chance of obtaining a berth. Seems pretty logical to me.
Uber_jones
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Penn/Ohio and ASA states were both cancelled in 10u, I agree the bid should be won on the field.
daboss
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So, they get rained out, cancelled the tourney, basically held a coin flip tourney instead to place the teams abnd award a bid,---------------------------and kept your money.
We may see more tournaments like this. No fields, no umps, no overhead, no worries. lol
We may see more tournaments like this. No fields, no umps, no overhead, no worries. lol
24GahannaLadyLions7
Well-Known Member
Even though I believe it should be played out on the field also, that's not the system that is in place right now. Fortunately in our age division, we received our ASA/USA bid by winning Dayton Metro beating a team who received the same bid in a cancelled in ASA states. (non-weather)
We have battled this team all year and they are 1 of the best teams in the State of Ohio. We have met them 4 times in Championship games!! I try to look at it as, "what if the shoe was on the other foot", I would want our team, my daughter to participate in this great tournament if we didn't win at Metro, and now our only shot left to get in ASA/USA was ASA states that got cancelled....wow... Talk about a feeling of emptiness
I still feel for the teams that didn't get it in by way of lottery and I don't have the answer of how to determine a perfect way to decide the qualifier recipients for the ASA/USA... I am at a loss
I will say I'm fine with how it work out in our age division because the team that received ASA/USA state bid is a very well-deserving team and I know OHIO will be represented well, I just hope that we are in different pools and happen to be in different sides of the bracket in Normal, Illinois. I hope both teams do very good and represent Ohio well. We had a little hiccup between teams at the beginning of the year, but I believe its settled itself and look forward to many, many years of competition. I think I can name every girl or at least their number on that team because we see them so much.
Even when playing it out on the field, everyone knows you have to have a bit of luck during the tournament to win it, just you need a bit more when it's done this way.
We have battled this team all year and they are 1 of the best teams in the State of Ohio. We have met them 4 times in Championship games!! I try to look at it as, "what if the shoe was on the other foot", I would want our team, my daughter to participate in this great tournament if we didn't win at Metro, and now our only shot left to get in ASA/USA was ASA states that got cancelled....wow... Talk about a feeling of emptiness
I still feel for the teams that didn't get it in by way of lottery and I don't have the answer of how to determine a perfect way to decide the qualifier recipients for the ASA/USA... I am at a loss
I will say I'm fine with how it work out in our age division because the team that received ASA/USA state bid is a very well-deserving team and I know OHIO will be represented well, I just hope that we are in different pools and happen to be in different sides of the bracket in Normal, Illinois. I hope both teams do very good and represent Ohio well. We had a little hiccup between teams at the beginning of the year, but I believe its settled itself and look forward to many, many years of competition. I think I can name every girl or at least their number on that team because we see them so much.
Even when playing it out on the field, everyone knows you have to have a bit of luck during the tournament to win it, just you need a bit more when it's done this way.
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If this is true, it is much worse than coin flips....... send the bids to another tournament where they can be won on the field.
There is a qualifier in Cincinnati next weekend, hold open registration for another day and allow as many teams as got screwed at states that want to go time to get in and give away the 5 total bids on the field, and the other bids that have been coin flipped and just plain given away could have been awarded there also. We have had to changed our schedule and mess up our plans to play in this tournament cause we happened to schedule all the qualifiers that got rained out, and now we have to notify all the coaches that wanted to come watch our kids play that we will not be at the tournament they had planned to come watch them at, and hope they are willing too change their plans also. I understand that you can't do anything about rain, but this method of awarding something as coveted as an ASA/USA nationals bid by flipping coins or card is BS, Plain and Simple
Lots of teams are off for the Fourth of July as their break. And like I said, teams who are playing else where have already made hotel reservations and paid for another tournament. You just can't up and move the bids to the next tournament.
shyne99
New Member
There is no argument that will ever make me feel like any of this is right, with coin flips and card flips you are giving teams that had no wins in pool play and have no intention of playing in USA nationals the same chance of winning as teams that have a chance to be competitive at that tournament, isn't that the reason you have the bid process in the first place, to ensure only the best teams in the country are at the USA/ASA nationals
Irish196
Active Member
Cjs- I was thinking the same thing. Instead of the card draw today for 14u- give the bid to Fire In the Sky to give to their winner. Everyone and their brother will be there anyways.
It sound like this year may just be national coin flip and card draw championships.
It sound like this year may just be national coin flip and card draw championships.
DougL
Active Member
There is no perfect solution. There is a ton of misinformation and lack of research and understanding. There is a process that ASA has in place for giving, awarding and handling berths. If you are a coach, there is no excuse for you not to know exactly how the berth process works for the sanctioning body your team is playing in and hoping to go to Nationals in. While I am not an ASA representative, I will share what I have researched.
1. Each ASA Association - in OH there are 3 - Dayton, Cinci and OH - get's 1 berth at each age for 200 sanctioned teams and 1 more at 1000 and more at other thresholds. Dayton for example gets 1 at each age as they have just over 200 teams in their assoc. These berths 'can' be used in a association tournament only - for Dayton - Clyde could hold his USA/ASA Qualifier for JUST teams in his sanctioning body. As many of our Hawks teams are in his assoc - that would be a huge benefit for us competing against local teams rather than what he 'choose' to do, open it up to all Ohio teams. The Ohio associations basically have agreed to open their USA/ASA berth qualifiers to each others teams. They don't have to.
2. Each association also gets 1 NATIONAL Qualifier berth each year (at least I know Dayton only gets 1 - not sure what OHIO Assoc gets) in 1 age group. Last year Dayton had 14u, this year 16u - which HAS to be OPEN to all ASA 16u teams across the country. The OP made some strong, uninformed comments about that so let me clear that up as well.
- That NATIONAL Qualifier for the Dayton Metro 16u Berth was posted on OFC back in April. That was Clyde tournament - no other organization 'ran' it for him. He created a flyer for it, which he asked for me to email to ALL 16u teams in the Metro back in April - 2 months ahead of the tournament - and it was posted (as pointed out earlier in this thread) on TournamentASA in April. I emailed over 44 16u teams the FLYER and a LINK to the online registration for it in April. If your coach did not put you in - ask him why not. One coach was talking about it being 'un-publicized' at the Metro. I sent him "the email" as sent back in April with HIS email in the TO list of those that got it. BTW: We had a draw for a blind bracket made Thursday night at Kettering - Hitter23 was there - in case we needed to cut PP during the Metro due to rain and jump right into bracket play.
- So, 4 teams - entered - my team, lasers purple, tenn elite (which was NOT last minute - their coach found it on OFC in May and told Clyde if they needed a berth after the opening of their season they would be up, so after not qualifying the weekend prior - they jumped in as any team would - I know he and clyde had several calls as it approached as we all did. If we won the Metro, we would have pulled out) and Ohio Edge. When it looked like rain early in the week - Clyde called us all and told us that if we did not get it in - he would flip a coin thru the bracket. ON FRIDAY - he got an email from the Kettering Park Director saying the fields would be closed all weekend due to weather. 100% out of his control. He told us all to drive to Springfield and he would flip. He told the Tn team they could have a rep there. I drove 2 hrs, my team lost our first 2 flips and we were out in 5 minutes. I drove 2 hours back home. It was a fair as could be - I had ZERO room to complain. I would have preferred to win the berth, play it on the field, or an Ohio team win it (so there would have been one less team to fight for it at ASA State) - but it did not work out that way.
One note about Regional Nationals - Eastern, Northern etc. Those are 'less' coveted, less attended and are more easily obtained - if you play ASA and want to go - qualify any weekend or ask for an at large.
USA/ASA Berths are the opposite - Associations can't 'make' up berths - there is a SET number allotted by ASA across the country according to the policy I mentioned above and they are tightly managed.
Lastly, there are "At Large" berths - the USA/ASA - Let's say they allocate 200 BERTHS to 16u USA/ASA (I have no idea the number - it is based on host site capacity) - as the date approaches - associations can turn their unused berths back in to the tournament - and the Host ASA Assoc can use them for at large berths for teams that want in and deserve in based on their performance and number of ASA NQ's they played in. I am not sure if the OH ASA has some at large - I guess those would be any of theirs that no one won or wanted - I am sure that rarely happens. I would like to know if they do myself. What I do know is that a Assoc Commissioner can call on one of his/her teams behalf and try to get an at large berth. Again, if you are a coach and you do not have a good relationship with your teams ASA Commissioner - shame on you. They will work for you if so.
Some side notes, we run the Dayton Metro - we get NO berths as a result - I heard someone say the host of a USA/ASA qualifier gets berths - ask OFC Heat, you don't. Period, we have to fight for ours same as everyone else. It pays as a coach to understand the process. Also, they really have to give out berths on that weekend - regardless of rain/weather. TEAMS schedule well in advance - as Strohbro said - in my teams case next weekend - we have players going to Colorado to showcase, one to a camp at Florida where she was invited to come, 2 out of town - it was our only planned weekend off all summer as a team - you have to plan and allow your players to plan their recruiting camps well in advance at 16u. No smart team would drop a Stingrays, Lasers, or GAPSS tourney for a makeup qualifier - recruiting is too important to the girls, and it will cause a snowball, ripple affect that will screw everything up all down the line for TD's with team dropping out last minute etc - as what happened to ASA State 16u with several last minute dropouts.
So, that's what I have learned about the process - I hope this helps other. In the end, to quote so many college coaches - this is BIG GIRL BALL - suck it up and deal with it. At the very least do your homework before complaining.
No one likes having to drive back to Findlay - but if you want the berth - get in your car and go to the draw. Good luck to those that do.
PS. I have known Clyde Brewer for 6 years now. He is one of the fairest, 'in it for the girls' man I know. He tries in every instance to do what is right. With our help he has taken one of the smallest ASA Associations and created one of the largest USA/ASA Qualifiers in the country. 144 teams last season. He does not deserve the 'comments' made about him above - either from uninformed posters or ones that should know better. He runs a youth league (the vast majority of his Assoc teams are 'local' B teams - inner city, local girls. 3 days a week for the girls that really play for the fun of it. Something we all tend to forget at times...
1. Each ASA Association - in OH there are 3 - Dayton, Cinci and OH - get's 1 berth at each age for 200 sanctioned teams and 1 more at 1000 and more at other thresholds. Dayton for example gets 1 at each age as they have just over 200 teams in their assoc. These berths 'can' be used in a association tournament only - for Dayton - Clyde could hold his USA/ASA Qualifier for JUST teams in his sanctioning body. As many of our Hawks teams are in his assoc - that would be a huge benefit for us competing against local teams rather than what he 'choose' to do, open it up to all Ohio teams. The Ohio associations basically have agreed to open their USA/ASA berth qualifiers to each others teams. They don't have to.
2. Each association also gets 1 NATIONAL Qualifier berth each year (at least I know Dayton only gets 1 - not sure what OHIO Assoc gets) in 1 age group. Last year Dayton had 14u, this year 16u - which HAS to be OPEN to all ASA 16u teams across the country. The OP made some strong, uninformed comments about that so let me clear that up as well.
- That NATIONAL Qualifier for the Dayton Metro 16u Berth was posted on OFC back in April. That was Clyde tournament - no other organization 'ran' it for him. He created a flyer for it, which he asked for me to email to ALL 16u teams in the Metro back in April - 2 months ahead of the tournament - and it was posted (as pointed out earlier in this thread) on TournamentASA in April. I emailed over 44 16u teams the FLYER and a LINK to the online registration for it in April. If your coach did not put you in - ask him why not. One coach was talking about it being 'un-publicized' at the Metro. I sent him "the email" as sent back in April with HIS email in the TO list of those that got it. BTW: We had a draw for a blind bracket made Thursday night at Kettering - Hitter23 was there - in case we needed to cut PP during the Metro due to rain and jump right into bracket play.
- So, 4 teams - entered - my team, lasers purple, tenn elite (which was NOT last minute - their coach found it on OFC in May and told Clyde if they needed a berth after the opening of their season they would be up, so after not qualifying the weekend prior - they jumped in as any team would - I know he and clyde had several calls as it approached as we all did. If we won the Metro, we would have pulled out) and Ohio Edge. When it looked like rain early in the week - Clyde called us all and told us that if we did not get it in - he would flip a coin thru the bracket. ON FRIDAY - he got an email from the Kettering Park Director saying the fields would be closed all weekend due to weather. 100% out of his control. He told us all to drive to Springfield and he would flip. He told the Tn team they could have a rep there. I drove 2 hrs, my team lost our first 2 flips and we were out in 5 minutes. I drove 2 hours back home. It was a fair as could be - I had ZERO room to complain. I would have preferred to win the berth, play it on the field, or an Ohio team win it (so there would have been one less team to fight for it at ASA State) - but it did not work out that way.
One note about Regional Nationals - Eastern, Northern etc. Those are 'less' coveted, less attended and are more easily obtained - if you play ASA and want to go - qualify any weekend or ask for an at large.
USA/ASA Berths are the opposite - Associations can't 'make' up berths - there is a SET number allotted by ASA across the country according to the policy I mentioned above and they are tightly managed.
Lastly, there are "At Large" berths - the USA/ASA - Let's say they allocate 200 BERTHS to 16u USA/ASA (I have no idea the number - it is based on host site capacity) - as the date approaches - associations can turn their unused berths back in to the tournament - and the Host ASA Assoc can use them for at large berths for teams that want in and deserve in based on their performance and number of ASA NQ's they played in. I am not sure if the OH ASA has some at large - I guess those would be any of theirs that no one won or wanted - I am sure that rarely happens. I would like to know if they do myself. What I do know is that a Assoc Commissioner can call on one of his/her teams behalf and try to get an at large berth. Again, if you are a coach and you do not have a good relationship with your teams ASA Commissioner - shame on you. They will work for you if so.
Some side notes, we run the Dayton Metro - we get NO berths as a result - I heard someone say the host of a USA/ASA qualifier gets berths - ask OFC Heat, you don't. Period, we have to fight for ours same as everyone else. It pays as a coach to understand the process. Also, they really have to give out berths on that weekend - regardless of rain/weather. TEAMS schedule well in advance - as Strohbro said - in my teams case next weekend - we have players going to Colorado to showcase, one to a camp at Florida where she was invited to come, 2 out of town - it was our only planned weekend off all summer as a team - you have to plan and allow your players to plan their recruiting camps well in advance at 16u. No smart team would drop a Stingrays, Lasers, or GAPSS tourney for a makeup qualifier - recruiting is too important to the girls, and it will cause a snowball, ripple affect that will screw everything up all down the line for TD's with team dropping out last minute etc - as what happened to ASA State 16u with several last minute dropouts.
So, that's what I have learned about the process - I hope this helps other. In the end, to quote so many college coaches - this is BIG GIRL BALL - suck it up and deal with it. At the very least do your homework before complaining.
No one likes having to drive back to Findlay - but if you want the berth - get in your car and go to the draw. Good luck to those that do.
PS. I have known Clyde Brewer for 6 years now. He is one of the fairest, 'in it for the girls' man I know. He tries in every instance to do what is right. With our help he has taken one of the smallest ASA Associations and created one of the largest USA/ASA Qualifiers in the country. 144 teams last season. He does not deserve the 'comments' made about him above - either from uninformed posters or ones that should know better. He runs a youth league (the vast majority of his Assoc teams are 'local' B teams - inner city, local girls. 3 days a week for the girls that really play for the fun of it. Something we all tend to forget at times...
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DougL
Active Member
I hear you - don't think on my drive home from Springfield I wasn't thinking the same thing.... Want to hear the rest of the story???
Sat night at 7:30p Russ Smith of the Mason Thunder - texts me - hey wanna play tomorrow? Of course I said yea and where - he said Rowe can get diamonds ready and we can play at noon in a 3 team friendly... we did, sunny and warm of course all day. I looked up during our first game there was Clyde - smiling at me... he and I thought the same thing - dang'ed if you do, dang'ed if you don't. If he had any inkling we could have played the NQ at Rowe on Sunday he would have... it is what it is.
Sat night at 7:30p Russ Smith of the Mason Thunder - texts me - hey wanna play tomorrow? Of course I said yea and where - he said Rowe can get diamonds ready and we can play at noon in a 3 team friendly... we did, sunny and warm of course all day. I looked up during our first game there was Clyde - smiling at me... he and I thought the same thing - dang'ed if you do, dang'ed if you don't. If he had any inkling we could have played the NQ at Rowe on Sunday he would have... it is what it is.
ASA posts a JO berth report each year that shows how ASA/USA berths are allocated across the country and the teams that earned a returning berth from finishing 1st/2nd at an ASA Nat. The report for 2015 is 2015 JO Qualifications & Berths.
1. Association Berths are based on previous year's registrations. Dayton and Cincy have 1 each and Ohio ASA has 6, which are usually split between the PA-OH Classic, Strongsville (former Clev metro) and the remainder to the State tourney.
2. Each Region gets 1 berth for a National Qualifier that is open to any ASA team (aka 'open' regional).
3. Each Region also gets 2 berths that are usually only available to OH teams (aka 'closed' regional).
That's a total of 11 ASA/USA berths that should have been allocated to 2015 qualifiers in OH. Seems like that's enough for all the teams that want to go to ASA/USA Nats. I recommend contacting your local commissioner if you want one.
If all OH berths are taken, there is a possibility of getting a berth from the ASA/USA host. ASA/USA Nat'l hosts get 2 Host berths that they can award to any team (usually local ones). There is also a Fill-in Procedure where the host commissioner can award unused berths to get to 138 teams total. Fill-in berths are awarded to teams based on the order of finish in association and regional championship tournaments.
1. Association Berths are based on previous year's registrations. Dayton and Cincy have 1 each and Ohio ASA has 6, which are usually split between the PA-OH Classic, Strongsville (former Clev metro) and the remainder to the State tourney.
2. Each Region gets 1 berth for a National Qualifier that is open to any ASA team (aka 'open' regional).
3. Each Region also gets 2 berths that are usually only available to OH teams (aka 'closed' regional).
That's a total of 11 ASA/USA berths that should have been allocated to 2015 qualifiers in OH. Seems like that's enough for all the teams that want to go to ASA/USA Nats. I recommend contacting your local commissioner if you want one.
If all OH berths are taken, there is a possibility of getting a berth from the ASA/USA host. ASA/USA Nat'l hosts get 2 Host berths that they can award to any team (usually local ones). There is also a Fill-in Procedure where the host commissioner can award unused berths to get to 138 teams total. Fill-in berths are awarded to teams based on the order of finish in association and regional championship tournaments.
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