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Choosen One.....Are you dyslexic??
No where in my post did I make reference to players playing to earn their coaches money!!
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Choosen One.....Are you dyslexic??
No where in my post did I make reference to players playing to earn their coaches money!!
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I think this is what chosenone was refering to. If the team doesn't travel, does the coach keep the money or give it back to the players (parents)......now you guys got me doing "what ifs."
I just want to know if this is legal in OHSAA eyes, thats all.
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My point is the young lady that made the last out and cost their team the Ohio High School Championship would feel just as bad if not worse. weather it is a trophy or money or some other prize. there has to be winners and there has to be losers. Because Matty could not make a fire, he did not win a million dollars. And because of a cookie Susie did not win a million dollars."I did a little edit.
1st
the way i understand the prize money, It is in hand of the TD before the tournament starts.
2nd.
The same can be said if the OHSAA Championship is lost by 1 run. "
UrbanaFan regarding your 1st point, I would hope so. Again my question was, what if they did not pony up the funds. On your 2nd point I am not sure what that has to do with costing your team actual money. My point was that players will now be attaching a monetary value to error should it cost them the game. Just kind of changes things. By the way cute picture.
So what I am saying. No matter the Prize. there is always a winner and a loser.
As for the money not being given out. If that happened, I guarantee it will only happen once.
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I believe the money will goto the organization to help pay for travel expenses
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Choosen One: The fact is clear.. you said what if a host team wins the event and there is a problem.. There ISN'T a problem.. they may host the tournament... but they are not running it. Not if they have a team in it. That's my rule. Plain and simple.
As I have always said, " I don't want anyone to ever have the opportunity to say, We was homered" at any IFA event.
Thanks Northmont, I'm trying to do for the girls. The more you do, the more the negativity comes out....lol. Sometimes you just have to shake your head and wonder why you even try. But, I don't let it get me down.. but sometimes you wonder why you should have the headache and do the best you can for the girls.
I guess, I could be an *** and say, " You only win the full amount IF you go to our Nationals. If you don't go to our Nationals, you only get half the amount".
But, you know me, I'm trying to give back to the girls and didn't put that as a requirement. Maybe, I should have... but I'm not like the other association where they force you to their state events to be able your qualifying berth. I'd like for them to give me the respect to go to at least one or two during the course of the year... but I don't require it. Seen anybody else give uniforms away for first place? I haven't either.
Come if you come, don't if you don't wish. Believe me, the IFA Nationals goes on without the Ohio teams. Go get your free berths to whatever that they hand out like candy.. take that trip to Florida and have fun... but it is a shame if you don't come shoot for some travel monies in OUR events to go to THEIRS.....lol
As I have always said, " I don't want anyone to ever have the opportunity to say, We was homered" at any IFA event.
Thanks Northmont, I'm trying to do for the girls. The more you do, the more the negativity comes out....lol. Sometimes you just have to shake your head and wonder why you even try. But, I don't let it get me down.. but sometimes you wonder why you should have the headache and do the best you can for the girls.
I guess, I could be an *** and say, " You only win the full amount IF you go to our Nationals. If you don't go to our Nationals, you only get half the amount".
But, you know me, I'm trying to give back to the girls and didn't put that as a requirement. Maybe, I should have... but I'm not like the other association where they force you to their state events to be able your qualifying berth. I'd like for them to give me the respect to go to at least one or two during the course of the year... but I don't require it. Seen anybody else give uniforms away for first place? I haven't either.
Come if you come, don't if you don't wish. Believe me, the IFA Nationals goes on without the Ohio teams. Go get your free berths to whatever that they hand out like candy.. take that trip to Florida and have fun... but it is a shame if you don't come shoot for some travel monies in OUR events to go to THEIRS.....lol
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LK I am not dyslexic but I do get somethings switched around some times. In this case you missed the point so I will move on.
The Ringer......BINGO
UrbanaFan of course the player will feel bad in both instances, that is not the point. The point is that when it is for MONEY and that player knew that she cost her team "X" amount of dollars it will have a different impact, that otherwise does not need to be introduced (IMHO).
Also, when I read what was posted from the OHSAA rules it looks like players cannot benefit via such money prizes directly or indirectly. Of course I am just a dyslexic, neophite so I will be the first to say that I do not have the proper IQ to figure them out. Again all the more reason for some of the sanctioning organizations in Ohio to have some discussion with OHSAA to make sure that they do not put these young ladies in jeopardy.
OQM, not sure where to begin. I guess that when questions are asked that folks don't like then they claim "negativity" is being laid upon them. Kind of reminds me of the Clintonista's. God bless you for looking after all of our children, because as you have made so clear, nobody else in this state is. BTW, are all other world series and nationals held only in Florida or do you just have something against the ones that are held there? You seem to be lumping everyone else into a catagory that is inferior to you and the IFA. Just curious?
The Ringer......BINGO
UrbanaFan of course the player will feel bad in both instances, that is not the point. The point is that when it is for MONEY and that player knew that she cost her team "X" amount of dollars it will have a different impact, that otherwise does not need to be introduced (IMHO).
Also, when I read what was posted from the OHSAA rules it looks like players cannot benefit via such money prizes directly or indirectly. Of course I am just a dyslexic, neophite so I will be the first to say that I do not have the proper IQ to figure them out. Again all the more reason for some of the sanctioning organizations in Ohio to have some discussion with OHSAA to make sure that they do not put these young ladies in jeopardy.
OQM, not sure where to begin. I guess that when questions are asked that folks don't like then they claim "negativity" is being laid upon them. Kind of reminds me of the Clintonista's. God bless you for looking after all of our children, because as you have made so clear, nobody else in this state is. BTW, are all other world series and nationals held only in Florida or do you just have something against the ones that are held there? You seem to be lumping everyone else into a catagory that is inferior to you and the IFA. Just curious?
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Let me me tell you, you or Ringer can find out on your own with OHSAA... as I know what the answer is. I've said it, LK has said it.Northmont has said it. It is easier for you to find out on your own... as it seems that even IF I took the time to tell you the answer... you wouldn't believe it.
Look, all the others requires you to go to their state to honor the berth you won to go to their Nationals that they pass out like candy. Heck, they got into the insurance game when ASA requires you to have ASA insurance to be in their ASA Tournaments in 2009. What happened to softball ? IT's turned into a money pit and a way to FORCE teams to play their sanctioned events.
As for Florida, it must seem that every 10u team in America was "B" last year in one association.
Quakerman's Predictions: USSSA Softball buys NSA within two years. Just my opinion.
Look, all the others requires you to go to their state to honor the berth you won to go to their Nationals that they pass out like candy. Heck, they got into the insurance game when ASA requires you to have ASA insurance to be in their ASA Tournaments in 2009. What happened to softball ? IT's turned into a money pit and a way to FORCE teams to play their sanctioned events.
As for Florida, it must seem that every 10u team in America was "B" last year in one association.
Quakerman's Predictions: USSSA Softball buys NSA within two years. Just my opinion.
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Ringer-- I go back to your original question.
My opinion is that it is best to get the answer to your question and other questions such as player eligibility by first contacting your local high school coach or AD and having them provide you an appropriate reference from the by-laws. Then you could verify that response by posting that on this forum to see if other such interpretations have been provided to others.
While I think it is appropriate for a sanctioning body/TD to have some idea of the by-laws, I wouldn't want to post something on here and it be wrong. I think it is really up to the travel organization/individual travel coach to know the rules and let their players and parents know what they are. TDs should offer the event and whatever they want to award as prizes is up to them. The teams will make the final choice on which event to go based on whatever their criteria is, such as being close to home, credibility and longevity of the event, etc.
Bob
My opinion is that it is best to get the answer to your question and other questions such as player eligibility by first contacting your local high school coach or AD and having them provide you an appropriate reference from the by-laws. Then you could verify that response by posting that on this forum to see if other such interpretations have been provided to others.
While I think it is appropriate for a sanctioning body/TD to have some idea of the by-laws, I wouldn't want to post something on here and it be wrong. I think it is really up to the travel organization/individual travel coach to know the rules and let their players and parents know what they are. TDs should offer the event and whatever they want to award as prizes is up to them. The teams will make the final choice on which event to go based on whatever their criteria is, such as being close to home, credibility and longevity of the event, etc.
Bob
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Quakerman, I think you unfairly lumped me in with the negative crowd. The reason I asked this question is because we were discussing these tournaments (including the uniform blowouts) and thinking, "Boy, it would be nice to win one of those. We could use the money..for travel, etc." In the course of the conversation, one of the parents simply asked me if this was legal in OHSAA eyes. I didn't have an answer....AND after reading this thread I still don't have a clear answer. That is not a knock on IFA but more the vagueness of OHSAA by-laws. Now, if you asked me, I would say $%#@ it, OHSAA will never find out anyway even if it is against their by-laws. HOWEVER, I can't say that for the 11 other kids on the team.
Bob, I agree, It is up to the coach to keep his players informed and let them know what is right and wrong. That's all I was trying to do. You can't tell me the OFC isn't on of the first places you look for info and knowledge on all things softball.
Bob, I agree, It is up to the coach to keep his players informed and let them know what is right and wrong. That's all I was trying to do. You can't tell me the OFC isn't on of the first places you look for info and knowledge on all things softball.
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I think you guys have great energy, but are heading down the wrong road with cash payouts. I see it several times a year when the "hired guns" show up to collect there bountys on the men's slow-pitch side. It just gets plain ugly, from the nastiness to the umpires and other players to the downright contempt for the directors running the tournament. Some of us have gotten into fast-pitch to get away from that nastiness and negativity the 'adults' seem to display over the smallest of things.
OQM there is a reason that you do not see other sanctions directors on here quoting OHSAA rules, it is not there place to make those kinds of rulings. That is what schools have A.D's and coaches for. Sanctioning body state directors in fastpitch should stick to just that, there associations rules.
I will give you the 'gimme' on the USSSA/NSA thing, considering that Hugh Cantrell is in his mid 60's and thinking retirement. USSSA has made the offer in the past, but the $$ wasn't what Mr. Cantrell was looking for at the time. They come a calling with the right dollar figure and it might be a done deal.................
OQM there is a reason that you do not see other sanctions directors on here quoting OHSAA rules, it is not there place to make those kinds of rulings. That is what schools have A.D's and coaches for. Sanctioning body state directors in fastpitch should stick to just that, there associations rules.
I will give you the 'gimme' on the USSSA/NSA thing, considering that Hugh Cantrell is in his mid 60's and thinking retirement. USSSA has made the offer in the past, but the $$ wasn't what Mr. Cantrell was looking for at the time. They come a calling with the right dollar figure and it might be a done deal.................
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IMHO COUSSSA has hit the nail on the head. Leave the OHSAA designs up to the schools and AD's. And I never thought TheRinger started this thread. to stir the pot.
One thing i have noticed over the years reading and posting on OFC. Is that we all ask questions and give answers. Post funny stories and sad stories. Advertise our tournaments and our organizations. complain about tournaments or things that happen at tournaments. We have seen people banned from OFC and then miss what they had to say.
I could do this for a long time. But What it comes down to is that we live in the USA, and have the freedom of speech and opinion.
So in the famous words of Rodney King
Can't we all just get along
One thing i have noticed over the years reading and posting on OFC. Is that we all ask questions and give answers. Post funny stories and sad stories. Advertise our tournaments and our organizations. complain about tournaments or things that happen at tournaments. We have seen people banned from OFC and then miss what they had to say.
I could do this for a long time. But What it comes down to is that we live in the USA, and have the freedom of speech and opinion.
So in the famous words of Rodney King
Can't we all just get along
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Here's the thing... the only reason I haven't posted Roxanne's statement... Roxanne is out of the office until Friday.
USSSA has for YEARS... YEARS.. given out paid berths to the National tournament.... same scenerio. I know that to be a fact with over 24 years in USSSA.
Hey, Northmont... how many paid berths have you won yourself or heard of others winning ?
Bob, you gonna tell me that USSSA doesn't do that... maybe not at your events but Bobby at Expressway has never done it ?
When I was with NAFA, the lawyers looked into it. It's fine as it goes to the coach and organization and not to the individual girls personally.
As for checking with the AD's... I am sure that some would know. I called three in Clermont County and all three gave me a different answer on another issue...lol... I called Ms. Price and she gave me the answer directly.
I like hearing it direct.
You guys don't want to do it because you are afraid it will start a trend in the softball world and if you don't do it.. teams might wonder "Hey, how can Quakerman do it with smaller tournaments versus the big guys?".... or you don't have a state director that hasn't the time to help his TD's in the marketing world of softball. Or my question... are you already marketing them yourself?
I have a phone call to her and an e-mail as well. She is not back in the office until Friday.
I'll reply when she e-mails me or calls. She is usually good at getting back to me as she knows I care about these eligibility issue and would NEVER put any girl is peril concerning eligibility. I love talking to her.
Ringer, if you can give out t-shirts and cheap trophies to the winner of a tournament... you sure can give out uniforms as well.
USSSA has for YEARS... YEARS.. given out paid berths to the National tournament.... same scenerio. I know that to be a fact with over 24 years in USSSA.
Hey, Northmont... how many paid berths have you won yourself or heard of others winning ?
Bob, you gonna tell me that USSSA doesn't do that... maybe not at your events but Bobby at Expressway has never done it ?
When I was with NAFA, the lawyers looked into it. It's fine as it goes to the coach and organization and not to the individual girls personally.
As for checking with the AD's... I am sure that some would know. I called three in Clermont County and all three gave me a different answer on another issue...lol... I called Ms. Price and she gave me the answer directly.
I like hearing it direct.
You guys don't want to do it because you are afraid it will start a trend in the softball world and if you don't do it.. teams might wonder "Hey, how can Quakerman do it with smaller tournaments versus the big guys?".... or you don't have a state director that hasn't the time to help his TD's in the marketing world of softball. Or my question... are you already marketing them yourself?
I have a phone call to her and an e-mail as well. She is not back in the office until Friday.
I'll reply when she e-mails me or calls. She is usually good at getting back to me as she knows I care about these eligibility issue and would NEVER put any girl is peril concerning eligibility. I love talking to her.
Ringer, if you can give out t-shirts and cheap trophies to the winner of a tournament... you sure can give out uniforms as well.
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After a year of rain on one day or another last year and TD's having to cancel different age groups in mulitple age group tournaments and sending them home mad as the TD only had three workers for their complex where they hold their events and parents and teams spent major dollars to get there in the first place... I don't think teams this year, especially in this economy... are looking for big tournaments that can't handle the amount of teams when it rains. I don't care how ESTABLISHED any tournament director is.... the dollar is tighter than it has ever been in the softball world.
Seen alot of fair weathered tournament director last year in Ohio. A LOT OF THEM.
Seen alot of fair weathered tournament director last year in Ohio. A LOT OF THEM.
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Maybe I confused you. I don't see anything wrong with the uniform tournaments. I referenced them because they seemed like a good deal too. My ORIGINAL question was with respect to cash payouts. I would love to have the chance at the cash and I could care less if other teams don't see it as a problem. Bottom line...if it is a problem for anyone don't play in it...right? However, I do have an obligation to my parents to at least try to get them an answer if we are considering the tournament.
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The Ringer apparently the Ohioquakerman does not get it. You were just asking a question and that is obvious to most on here. I for one will make sure that our teams coach does his homework.
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You seem to keep referring to this one tournament last year as your point of referance and as we all know the TD's there did a very poor job. Mot people and teams that I have talked with since then will make them pay. I do take issue with your comment that teams will not be looking at what you call "Big tournaments". As we look at next years schedule many of the "Big" tournaments are already filled up or nearly filled up. My DD's teams schedule is set and just about all of the tournaments that they are entered in are full. I would consider these big tournaments and well known tournaments ran by excellent TD's. I could care less what they offer as prizes, we care more about competition, field conditions and history. I would suggest that people pay attention to what TD's have been around for a while and who has provided excellent tournaments regardless of silly prizes.
While some locations had troubles with the rains last year others shined in the face of it. The GAPSS tournament did an awesome job in the face of heavy rain on Thursday and Friday before the tournament started. Same goes for the Toledo Tune-Up where they had heavy rain friday and still got every game in. Rain happens, it is a fact of summer ball. How the TD deals with it defines their tournament and over the years we have seen who handles it best. You seem to lump everyone into one big heep of **** that happenes to be anyone who is not running one of your events. As a parent who has little to do with where we travel or not I will offer this piece of advice for you ohioquakerman. If you continue to make comments like these "I don't care how ESTABLISHED any tournament director is.... the dollar is tighter than it has ever been in the softball world. Seen alot of fair weathered tournament director last year in Ohio. A LOT OF THEM." people will be turned off by you. Blanket statements are somewhat common from extremist political types and we have come to accept and ultimately ignore them. I'm afraid that this is the same road that you are heading down.
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Well are team now called the englewood thunder that we started 4 years ago was a local all star rec team that tried to do a full schedule of travel tournaments. we never did very well in the qualifiers so we never won any paid berths. We were offered one paid berth are second year but we did not except it for usssa. I know that the team she now plays on had I think a couple of paid births that they won or got second and did not except them for nsa and usssa last year.
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i do not understand what the big deal is. If you want to play in the tournaments that give money, then play. if not then don't. This is being blwon way out of proportion. TheRinger was only asking a question and Choosenone got us all started. when Quakerman gets the answer friday from OHSAA he will post it.
Tim, you are a good man please do not let anyone get under you skin.
Ringer, you are a good man also, don't let them under your skin either.
If i need to preform therapy here, I can.
Just sit back and tell me about your childhood. LOL
Tim, you are a good man please do not let anyone get under you skin.
Ringer, you are a good man also, don't let them under your skin either.
If i need to preform therapy here, I can.
Just sit back and tell me about your childhood. LOL
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On other forums, I have gone by Dr. Zimmerman.
The Doc is IN
The Doc is IN
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I get it Edamame. The question is do you ?
Do you like going to tournaments.. huge events.. where they have maybe 3 people available to work on the diamond? I doubt it.
GAPPS, Toledo Tune up are wonderful tournaments. Who said anything about them but you. I didn't. You seem to make than lumping suggestion not I. GAPPS ran a great tournament with all the rain. They have personnel to do so. But, I indeed saw a lot of large tournaments last year that cancelled certain age groups based on their overbooking of teams and age groups and lack of personnel to maintain the fields.
Yes, indeed, there was a lot of fair weathered tournament directors out there for sure last year. I tell the facts. Have a problem with facts?
Less larger tournaments are very appealing to many teams in 2009. I hear from them. They want "A" and "B" divisions, they want full games (*weather permitting), and glad for the better prizes.
GAPPS is a great event in here in Ohio. Jamie's Best of the Best in the Fall is as well and growing and good for him as he works hard at it. Same with Stingrays.
But, don't assume that everyone wants to go to a big tournament. Because that isn't the truth.
Do you like going to tournaments.. huge events.. where they have maybe 3 people available to work on the diamond? I doubt it.
GAPPS, Toledo Tune up are wonderful tournaments. Who said anything about them but you. I didn't. You seem to make than lumping suggestion not I. GAPPS ran a great tournament with all the rain. They have personnel to do so. But, I indeed saw a lot of large tournaments last year that cancelled certain age groups based on their overbooking of teams and age groups and lack of personnel to maintain the fields.
Yes, indeed, there was a lot of fair weathered tournament directors out there for sure last year. I tell the facts. Have a problem with facts?
Less larger tournaments are very appealing to many teams in 2009. I hear from them. They want "A" and "B" divisions, they want full games (*weather permitting), and glad for the better prizes.
GAPPS is a great event in here in Ohio. Jamie's Best of the Best in the Fall is as well and growing and good for him as he works hard at it. Same with Stingrays.
But, don't assume that everyone wants to go to a big tournament. Because that isn't the truth.
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