Question about IFA payouts.

[default]

ohioquakerman no team likes to go to tournaments (big or small) where the facilities are lacking and the TD's are not up to expectations. My point is that not all tournaments (again big or small) should be lumped into the same basket. You make a regular habit of that. The GAPSS and Toledo Tune-Up references where only examples. I never said that you mentioned them......I did. On the other hand you said that " I indeed saw a lot of large tournaments last year that cancelled certain age groups based on their overbooking of teams and age groups and lack of personnel to maintain the fields." This is what I referred to as you "Lumping" evryone else in together. List the ones that you refer to, and that will at the very least not implicate every other TD and tournament that did a great job last year and regularly in the past. I would think that with 10 to 15 tournaments going on most weekends in the state of Ohio during the summer you could not possibly attend all of them and make a honest opinion.
What exactly do you mean by a "Fair Weathered TD's"? Does this refer to a TD that was lucky enough to have a decent weather weekend to host their tournament? Or do you have some other wild definition?
You say that "Less larger tournaments are very appealing to many teams in 2009. I hear from them. They want "A" and "B" divisions, they want full games (*weather permitting), and glad for the better prizes." What do you consider a Larger tournament? What do you consider a less larger (your terminology)? And what make one or the other better? I agree that most teams want full games...that is not unique to IFA or tournaments that you run. I see many other tournaments with full games.
Also for your information the Best of the Best tournaments have been around for a long long time. I would not consider them "growing", they have been strong forever.

Finally, I have no probelm with what you call "the facts" I am just a parent and I make no decisions about where our teams goes and does not go. But I am a part of the fastpitch community in Ohio and I have been fortunate enough over the years to visit many excellent softball facilities, and see many TD's who work their tails off to put on excellent tournaments. I really dislike seeing anyone lump every other TD into a small group of TD's who did a poor job in what was really poor weather conditions. Just a caution.....if you continue down this path lumping and dissing most other tournaments in the state then your events better be 1000% perfect. If not I have a feeling that you will feel the wrath of the OFC. You are creating an unrealistic standard for yourself. Weather you realize that or not.


best of luck.

 

[default]

This is off my own subject but pretty much all the tournaments we went to last year were well run. Cap City Showdown had a few hiccups and that was due to rain and it being the first year. Of the tournaments we attended last year, all of the following were nicely run tournaments due to good TDs and volunteers. (IMHO)

Beavercreak (Bob's tourneys)
Toledo Tune-Up
GAPSS
Greenville (Ohio Wave)
Urbana (LunaChix)
Capital City

 

[default]

See this is where we disagree Ed and it is fine to disagree. Nothing wrong with it. Some TD's are of course trying to make money. No harm it that or no foul. But, at the same time the fair weathered Tournament director I am talking about are great TD's in fair weather.. but when rain comes and they have to lower their tournament by a couple age groups because they never figured in rain..... that is what I call a fair weather tournament director.

No tournament director should ever begin with the thought that rain is not a possibility. God bless the sunshine of a full weekend... but a TD has to be prepared for rain if it comes. That preparedness is based on drainage, enough personnel to manage the appropriate fields they are using and making sure from the start to not overbook an event to the point you have to send age groups home. What makes one age group of parents who spent money any different that another age group of parent who spent money as well on a weekend's worth of motels.

I wish the big tournaments well. Jamie and I meant this... runs a wonderful event (Best of the Best) and it is growing larger and larger each year and this is great for him, his organization, and most of all ... the girls. He works hard at it and should be appreciated for that fact.

You might have missed the fact that I brought in a helicopter to play the last weekend of June in Wilmington where the fields don't drain ( I found that out the hard way). Two tournaments survived in Ohio that weekend on Sunday. So am I wrong to use my profits for the girls to play since it was their last chance to get berths to the NSA World Series? We played until 1:30 on Monday morning and not one complaint for playing so late. Not one.

I think this is why Ringer calls me the Quakerflake.....lol cause I care not about anything except... the girls and playing ball. $900.00 dollars worth of diamond dry and $1200 for a helicopter didn't phase me one bit. Heck, umpires made more money than me....lol.. but I didn't care. I committed to holding a tournament for the girls.. if I don't give everything I have to make sure it can happen if the conditions are right... then I am a failure indeed.

I don't like to fail. Plain and simple. See, my TD's have an advantage coming with me. With National events there is bid monies for said events. Luckily, in the first year out of the gate .. I have two. Sure I could just put this money in my pocket... but I try to give back. I work hard for my TD's in getting with chamber to give back as well.

I'd give my left testicle for an IFA association with the GAPPS event. It could give me a way for 18u and 16u teams to honor their National appearences at the IFA Elite Gold events... and they would know I'd go out and market their established event to ( and I'm not going to give away all the contacts)... to make them even more money. If they aren't getting bid monies for the established events.... somebody is making money off of their backs and hard work... particularly motels and restaurants, etc..... All that hard work by the GAPPS people and no thanks from the business community. Just doesn't seem right, now does it ?

But, what I can't get for my TD's in CVB monies.. I give them in my bid money. MAKES FOR A WONDERFUL RELATIONSHIP.

But setting myself up for failure... I like it. Makes me work even harder. I hate failure (see helicopter story from above).

As for prizes, I like it. I like being a small tournament actually. Less headaches actually and more room to not cut games if rain happens. I think teams will like the fact that we are smaller. Better chance to win the "future travel monies".

If any association can give out paid berths... I can give out travel monies. They both are money based on placement of the teams at the end of the tournament and both are not paid directly to the girls. And how many years have other associations gave paid berths? Many, many years.

As for Mike's reference for "goons at the money tournaments"...lol comparing men to girls is just wrong, Mike. I like you, I wish you would have came over with me.. but I didn't get to you soon enough....lol... But, the offer is always open.. as I want to go on over to Pennsylvania and get that state up and running.... But, I have to leave the girls here in good hands first....lol

"We don't have to be the biggest.. just the best". That's our motto.

 

[default]

Somebody want to own up to the sending home of the 16u and 18u teams after their age bracket was cancelled due to lack of employees (3) being able to get the fields prepared to play. This could be interesting if the person/organization owns up to it.

Come blast me why don't you. Are "established" TD's mad because we are trying to give out some great prizes? I don't run away. I ain't had a rain out yet.... knock knock on wood. I know I will... and believe me when it rained the last weekend of June... I thought I was going to have my first.

But, teams know I am going to give it my best shot no matter what it takes and the conditions are right for a possibility to play. Especially those SuddenDeathSoftball guys (Quakerman standing and giving an ovation clap.clap.clap.) for their spring event in Middletown.

 

[default]

As for paid berths: I have never offered this and don't intend to.

As for anyone else in USSSA offering paid berths last year: I don't know if anyone did or not. I don't look at USSSA events-- I may look at other sanctions events, however, to see what they are up to--LOL!!!!

As for anyone in Ohio USSSA offering paid berths in last 5 years: I know of only one event and that was hosted by the former state director and I let her know that I did not like paid berths. BY PAID BERTH, I mean the entry fee to the World Series event was paid as part of her tournament prize package.

Have I offered cash in lieu of trophies: At the 18 and over events, I offer the winners the choice between me buying them trophies and sending them at a later date or taking cash that is equal to the amount I would have spent on trophies. Generally the teams take cash but some have chosen trophies. I will tell you that the amount spent on trophies is less than a $350 entry fee.

Smaller tournaments: I, for one, plan on smaller events this year. At one event last year, I took in exactly the number of teams I could handle if we had no rain. When it poured late on Sat night and rained again Sunday morning, I was only able to get one age group started 3 hours late. Had I had a smaller number of teams, I could have perhaps gotten one or both of the other age groups in. I am not set up with large group of volunteers like Gapps or Stingrays to get a lot of diamonds ready. They are and they do a great job with their events and they shouldn't be avoided because they have a large number of teams anymore than one of my or some other events because they might be smaller.

 

[default]

For years, USSSA at certain events gave paid berths. I know this to be true, Bob. How long was I with USSSA ? If you gave out money instead of trophies... even in lieu of... then based on their placement... then what is your difference from mine? None.

I have no problem with large tournaments. None at all. They have great volunteers. I have no problem with small tournaments. I just like small tournaments actually. But, it is usually I that gets blasted for having nothing but small events. " You have nothing but small tournaments...blah, blah, blah.." I JUST LIKE SMALL EVENTS... what can I tell you. Sure a lot less headaches huh Bob ?....lol...

And the heck with Walking Tacos... give me those "Mrs. Bob" chicken sandwiches.... Man, my mouth is watering right now....lol.. I'm 50 and that is the best chicken sandwich I ever ate in all of my life.

 

[default]

a) Competing for money or other remuneration. Allowable travel, meals and lodging expenses may be accepted provided that these expenses are not conditioned on the individual's or team' place finish or performance or given on an incentive basis.[/B] In addition, receipt of expenses in excess of the same reasonable amount for permissible expenses given to all individuals or team members involved in the competition is not permitted;

Boy, some people need to learn to read, giving money at tournaments for a first place finish, is in violation of the High School rules (individuals or teams place or finish or given
on an incentive basis. reguardless of who on the team or assoc. with the team is in violation of the rules, you are jeopardizing these kids amatuer status and the availability
to play high school ball and college also.

 

[default]

thankyou Ringer.

My tournament would not have been complete without you.

Hope to see your team again this year.

 

[default]

Tim-- the cash instead of trophies has only been offered to 18 and over teams. By definition, all those players are at least high school graduates. In addition, the teams made the choice to accept the cash, not me. The amount of cash was far less than a $1000. I always tell the winning teams that they can now go buy whatever trophy they want to to celebrate their championship. Of course, I think most do not since this age group generally needs money.

I know the teams like the attractiveness of a $1000 prize etc and if they feel comfortable playing for it, I have no problem with their decision. I just personally do not like it for teams that are 18 years or younger and still in the undergraduate school system.

I'll tell my wife about the chicken sandwich-- I have eaten quite a few myself.

Hope you and yours have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Bob

 

[default]

Tim, If a TD has 5 age groups at a tournament how will it be possible to pay 1st and 2cd place at $1000. for first and $500. for second that would be $7500.00 in prize money?

 

[default]

ohioquakerman can you tell me exactly how many tournaments canceled age groups due to rain last year? For that matter how many in the past 3 or 4 years. I'm just curious how big a problem this really is

 

[default]

edamame,

For me, in the past 14 years of doing this, I have only had one event completely wiped out (two years ago) and that's because it rained all day Saturday and based on the forecast and what I could see on internet radar, I canceled the entire event around 300PM to let the teams and their players go and do something else. Last year, I did lose play for 2 age groups on a Sunday due to heavy rains at 1100PM Saturday and again at 400AM Sunday morning. I had about 2 diamonds I thought I could make good and playable by noon and so I decided to do the 12U age group because it only had 9 teams. I cancelled the other age groups at 9AM just because I didn't want them hanging around for 5 to 6 hours waiting to find out when tthey might play. Needless to say the 12U teams were happy and the other teams were disappointed but at least they knew early in the day they weren't going to play and were able to do other things. That Saturday had also been very challenging since it rained at 1100AM and we couldn't get started again until around 4PM.

bob

 

[default]

Ringer does in fact has a valid ? and to add to that, how about teams that receive cash donations from sponsors, this money to is being used in the same manner. Again, just trying to get answers or are we reading to much into it

 

[default]

I agree with Danger1
We are a Non-profit organization, and solicit donations from companies, and get them. The cash in the tournaments can be a tax detectable donation to the winning team.

Ringer does in fact has a valid ? and to add to that, how about teams that receive cash donations from sponsors, this money to is being used in the same manner. Again, just trying to get answers or are we reading to much into it

 

[default]

Some of us just use the "profits" for our own softball program. Our new Wizard World indoor facility would not have been possible without tournaments proceeds. This seems to be more logical since the final standings did not have a determination on where the money goes. Since Wizard World benefits a good number of girls from a number of different programs, we feel that this is "giving back" to the girls.
We all can decide what tournaments that we want to attend. The $1500.00 does not appeal to me. Money can be raised a number of ways.

 

[default]

We are giving it out at Marion 12u - 10u (separate events) and Urbana 10u and 12u (same event) , and Goshen 14u. All are based on the amount of teams entered except Goshen (which I got the CVB here to pay the 1500) and if the draw is good then I'll add the 1000 to the 2nd place finish.

The tournaments where there are more than one age group... then that is up to the TD.

Softballgrl: You wouldn't say that if you was privy to the letter I received from Ms. Moore of the OHSAA yesterday. She is awaiting the return of Ms. Price on Friday so they can discuss before giving us the "official word".

Paid berths are the same thing. Money given to teams (in the form of a paid berth) based on the finish in a tournament. Actually, MS. Moore said the girls can receive "travel expenses" but even her answer confused me and IFA attornies. But, I wil note, she said that in all of her 20 years, she had never ran into this situation or been asked this question.

Just so everyone knows, with the bids coming in from bidding out the National tournaments... we will be proping up the other events. This is what I do for my TD's instead of putting the money into my own pocket. Bids are out and the deadline is December 27th. The first of the year, we will post the amounts in all our events.

Hey Ringer... send me your e-mail address and I will send you a copy of the OHSAA letter. Funniest thing I ever read. You got mine.

 

[default]

...Hey Ringer... send me your e-mail address and I will send you a copy of the OHSAA letter. Funniest thing I ever read. You got mine.

I don't doubt it for one second. I think OHSAA by-laws are intentionally vague so they can be interpreted as they see fit. Sort of like a UAW contract.

 

[default]

Heck, Ringer... they didn't know. " Never been asked that question in her 20 years of service".

Now go to www.ncaa.org when you get to their home page look to the left and mouse your way over to Legislation and Goverance.. then in the box you will see Rules and By Laws pop up and click....Under Div I click Search LSDBi

Now on the next page put in 12.1.2.1.4.1 and read then also 12.1.2.4.1

Some guy is trying to read into it saying you can't give more expenses than the tournament cost... Tell me where any of you might see that ? He wrote the people at IFA about it....lol... (Secret (alien) foreign tournament director is my best guess)

It can't cover MOM and DAD's expenses but it can cover the child's expenses and it doesn't say it has to be the expenses AT THE TOURNAMENT they played in and that tournament only.

I have a call into NCAA scheduled at 1 PM Eastern Time tomorrow to get their interpetation and awaiting the return of the OHSAA people as well. Just want to get NCAA thoughts and get them to put it on paper for OHSAA and before they rule on it.

 

[default]

Done my job for the night... now it's time to go to the other REAL job.... Have fun researching......

 

[default]

Marion is giving Monies starting at 20 teams for each age division. Otherwise I'm still thinking of ideas if it's under 20 teams. We all know as a host of a tournament more profit could happen if Money wasn't awarded, but I really like the idea of giving back and this year with this economy I am happy to do it. Look at this way, 1 Large Trophy, 1 Sweat Shirt per and 1 Medal per for first place, $50.00 x 12 kids= $600.00. 2nd Place; 1 Medium Trophy 1 T-shirt per 1-Medal per $30.00 x 12 kids= $360.00. Awards are cheaper, and if the Money is an issue, I may award customed sweat suits for the girls. Not Sure, but willing to listen to some good ideas or what a team would like to play for? (My kids would go ballistic over customed sweat suits)