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I think some organizations host tourneys to guarentee them a berth for Nationals.....
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According to the Democrats it is.
And that is why the former USSR developed produced so many wonderful things that improved the quality of our lives. Oh wait.....I can't think of a single one....
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USSSA World Series = just ask. Nobody is going to get turned away.
ASA Eastern Regional = Ask - open tournament
ASA Nationals = Don't you have to win something to get there?
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ASA nationals, some teams get to go by who they know.Some have went that did not earn a spot.
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I am trying to think how anyone makes a 'profit' form hosting a tournament. We sponsor a tournament that uses the 'profit' to support the local teams. Some years that profit is very thin.
Among the expenses that a tournament might have to cover is insurance, umpires, hotel rooms for umpires, water for umpires, lunch and dinner for college coaches, new softballs, national organization fees and expenses, trophies, tournament shirts, staff shirts, field preparation before the weekend, field maintenance during the tourney, manpower during the tournament, liners, lining material, two pallets of field dry, field rental fees, trash barrels, trash pick-up and disposal, litter pick-up, hand tools, security, concession food and manpower, site managers at each complex, toilets, toilet cleaning, and toilet paper (more than you would think)... .
Other directors would be able to add to this list but you get my point. You do all of this for an opportunity for your teams to play a local tournament and the off-chance to put a couple thousand back. Wake up the Friday morning of the tournament with rain on the way and all expenses in and you wonder how anyone can make a business of it.
More power to them, perhaps they can tell us how they do it.
Among the expenses that a tournament might have to cover is insurance, umpires, hotel rooms for umpires, water for umpires, lunch and dinner for college coaches, new softballs, national organization fees and expenses, trophies, tournament shirts, staff shirts, field preparation before the weekend, field maintenance during the tourney, manpower during the tournament, liners, lining material, two pallets of field dry, field rental fees, trash barrels, trash pick-up and disposal, litter pick-up, hand tools, security, concession food and manpower, site managers at each complex, toilets, toilet cleaning, and toilet paper (more than you would think)... .
Other directors would be able to add to this list but you get my point. You do all of this for an opportunity for your teams to play a local tournament and the off-chance to put a couple thousand back. Wake up the Friday morning of the tournament with rain on the way and all expenses in and you wonder how anyone can make a business of it.
More power to them, perhaps they can tell us how they do it.
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A very good field crew
and most important A GREAT CONCESSION stand is where the profit is made
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And this is why you need fields that drain well... no matter the temps.
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Personally I would rather send my teams to a tournament that is well organized and for profit by a private individual than a tournament run by a softball association that is poorly organized.
Bill Beckham has run tournaments for softball organizations. He was the brains behind the SGS Tune-up, Shoot-out as well as the FAST Wizards Farley and WindDown which the money went back into the organizations.
We all have a choice on where to spend our money based on factors as where the profits are going and even which sanctioning bodies are involved.
Maybe the motive behind the post was someone who has a competing tournament and it is adversely affecting his tournament, and maybe not. I like competing tournaments, it makes all of us do a better job in running our tournaments.
Bill Beckham has run tournaments for softball organizations. He was the brains behind the SGS Tune-up, Shoot-out as well as the FAST Wizards Farley and WindDown which the money went back into the organizations.
We all have a choice on where to spend our money based on factors as where the profits are going and even which sanctioning bodies are involved.
Maybe the motive behind the post was someone who has a competing tournament and it is adversely affecting his tournament, and maybe not. I like competing tournaments, it makes all of us do a better job in running our tournaments.
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Nothing like knowing rain is coming in on Friday. I agree. Then knowing it is going to rain off and on all weekend is the next challenge for TD's. Whether to spend money ($600-$1000) immediately on field dry when you know two hours from now you are going to get rained on again. Coaches pacing...lol....parents confused into knowing what it takes to run an event and the national weather service info you have retained already....
Not easy being a TD... you darn well earn your money...what little there is of it.
Everybody complains about gate fee/parking fees when in actually.. those fees are used to offset tourney costs like diamond dry, extra porta-johns, etc.... I haven't charged them in years past... but have "seen the light"...lol
Not easy being a TD... you darn well earn your money...what little there is of it.
Everybody complains about gate fee/parking fees when in actually.. those fees are used to offset tourney costs like diamond dry, extra porta-johns, etc.... I haven't charged them in years past... but have "seen the light"...lol
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One common element in this thread and ohioquakeman brought it up, if people knew exactly how much it takes (costs and effort) to run any event, how much headache it can be for a TD, they wouldn't do it and/or when they show up they would shake the TD hand and thank him (or her).
There is strength in numbers. Unless a tournament has 30 or more teams, it is barely making it by. That is my experience.
Most people think every TD makes a living on running tournaments and it is just simply not true. There are so many more expenditures than people know of and/or understand. I know personally if I just don't lose money on an event, I am happy. I just hope I make enough to take my wife out to eat.
The only people that are 99% making money on tournaments are the umpires. I love them all, but they show up, call the games, get a check and head home.
Ty
There is strength in numbers. Unless a tournament has 30 or more teams, it is barely making it by. That is my experience.
Most people think every TD makes a living on running tournaments and it is just simply not true. There are so many more expenditures than people know of and/or understand. I know personally if I just don't lose money on an event, I am happy. I just hope I make enough to take my wife out to eat.
The only people that are 99% making money on tournaments are the umpires. I love them all, but they show up, call the games, get a check and head home.
Ty
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And umpires can make or break your tournament... we have ALL seen that in Ohio.
I think the large tournament directors are getting rebates from motels and hotels that team uses while at the tournament. Some certain areas of the nation pay $6.00 per room per night ... so with a bunch of out of town teams... that can supplement the tournament as well as the gate.
The gate is used for diamond dry and expenses such as porta-johns and employees. The entry fee is used for softball and umpires, scheduling fee to a umpire scheduling service, a UIC on hand ($250-$350)... motels for out of town umpires/UIC and temp fencing (which is sky-high in some areas). Usually your T-shirt sales pays for your trophies... if you have someone who does both. I have someone that has been great at larger tournaments.
Ball diamond rental.... comes out what is left of the entry fee money and some of the gate.....
Telephone costs, time on the computer answering endless questions and inquiries,.... let me tell you ..... It makes you wonder why in the heck am I doing this......lol
Ballfield costs..... Some are tremendously high ..... some are even higher in West PA due to friendships with someone...lol Take that to the bank now...
But, if you can get an established tournament in town (with motel rental proof from past year's events)..... make the motels give you a rebate on every room rented by teams for the three day weekend... make the CVB pay for diamond rentals and it's fee associated with it.. to bring your event to town ....... because it fills their tax based coffers (Motel tax 15-18%) .... then it's a different story about making money.
Everybody remember when a certain org made teams stay in their suggested motels and if you didn't.. you had to pay and extra $300.00 ???? Why it was done is because of rebates... plain and simple.
Concession is where your money is made at. I just prefer to allow Goshen Jr Sports to make it and run their own.
It's called marketing your tournament. It can and always is done... but based on the size of the event and what was last year's and the year befores amount of butts you can put in a motel rooms for a three day weekend !!!!!!
Like Ty said... it's strength in numbers. The old numbers game....
But, you can make money on the small ones as well ... as long as you carry your own site insurance and go without a sanction on the tournament. Nothing kills me more than paying a sanctioning fee and so much per team to an association for doing what? Giving me a berth worth a plug nickel and site insurance....lol
If you have a big tournament and not making money on it... then you aren't marketing it right. There's conventions all over this country where they bid on events.. from s o c c e r, in-line skating, softball, in-line hockey (huge amounts of teams around)... but have your records straight and bottom line... how many butts can you put in my city??? is the question they ask first !!!!!
I think the large tournament directors are getting rebates from motels and hotels that team uses while at the tournament. Some certain areas of the nation pay $6.00 per room per night ... so with a bunch of out of town teams... that can supplement the tournament as well as the gate.
The gate is used for diamond dry and expenses such as porta-johns and employees. The entry fee is used for softball and umpires, scheduling fee to a umpire scheduling service, a UIC on hand ($250-$350)... motels for out of town umpires/UIC and temp fencing (which is sky-high in some areas). Usually your T-shirt sales pays for your trophies... if you have someone who does both. I have someone that has been great at larger tournaments.
Ball diamond rental.... comes out what is left of the entry fee money and some of the gate.....
Telephone costs, time on the computer answering endless questions and inquiries,.... let me tell you ..... It makes you wonder why in the heck am I doing this......lol
Ballfield costs..... Some are tremendously high ..... some are even higher in West PA due to friendships with someone...lol Take that to the bank now...
But, if you can get an established tournament in town (with motel rental proof from past year's events)..... make the motels give you a rebate on every room rented by teams for the three day weekend... make the CVB pay for diamond rentals and it's fee associated with it.. to bring your event to town ....... because it fills their tax based coffers (Motel tax 15-18%) .... then it's a different story about making money.
Everybody remember when a certain org made teams stay in their suggested motels and if you didn't.. you had to pay and extra $300.00 ???? Why it was done is because of rebates... plain and simple.
Concession is where your money is made at. I just prefer to allow Goshen Jr Sports to make it and run their own.
It's called marketing your tournament. It can and always is done... but based on the size of the event and what was last year's and the year befores amount of butts you can put in a motel rooms for a three day weekend !!!!!!
Like Ty said... it's strength in numbers. The old numbers game....
But, you can make money on the small ones as well ... as long as you carry your own site insurance and go without a sanction on the tournament. Nothing kills me more than paying a sanctioning fee and so much per team to an association for doing what? Giving me a berth worth a plug nickel and site insurance....lol
If you have a big tournament and not making money on it... then you aren't marketing it right. There's conventions all over this country where they bid on events.. from s o c c e r, in-line skating, softball, in-line hockey (huge amounts of teams around)... but have your records straight and bottom line... how many butts can you put in my city??? is the question they ask first !!!!!
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Now, with me.. I work with the motels to give better rates... Had a couple in Savannah when making a contract with me ask if I wanted a rebate. I said no and they lower room rates down $5.00 per room. In other words., motels done have that money figured in their rates to give. Business 101.
Now, Treck... for all of you who don't know him ... is Ty Rechovich from Savannah Georgia. He runs college showcases throughout the South in about four different states including Nevada. Maybe five states. Does well...works hard at it...like ALL other TD's.
But, I don't believe you aren't making money if it isn't over 30 teams. Especially with motel rebates like many College Showcase TD's do and the gate fees.
Now, Treck... for all of you who don't know him ... is Ty Rechovich from Savannah Georgia. He runs college showcases throughout the South in about four different states including Nevada. Maybe five states. Does well...works hard at it...like ALL other TD's.
But, I don't believe you aren't making money if it isn't over 30 teams. Especially with motel rebates like many College Showcase TD's do and the gate fees.
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Let's have fun and go through the numbers on a small event.
Let's look at 8 teams in a 5 game guarentee for $400.00 entry fee.
There is a toal of 23 games 4 pool - single elims.
$3200.00 = entry fee monies 8 X $400 there is a total of 23 games
-1725.00 umpires at $40 Plate - $35 Field Per Game fee is $75 X 23 games
- 128.00 = 2 dozen NCAA softballs (That's what I use)
- 115.00 = Umpire scheduler for 23 games X $5.00 per game scheduled
- 280.00 = Hoodies for 14 girls
- 100.00 = 2nd place t-shirts for 14 girls
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-2348.00
- 500.00 ball field rentals
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-2848.00
Now, either carry site insurance @$100 per tourney or pay a sanction $125.00 plus five dollars a team to an association for sanctioning your event with them.
Now, here is where concession makes your money for you as well as gate charges for things not even mentioned here above..like diamond dry, extra porta-johns, etc... Gate helps with motel costs for out of town umpires (cincy and Dayton don't worry about that as it is not needed)...UIC costs ($250-350) plus two nights motel for UIC.
Add it up folks... the above costs somewhere has to be trimmed. That's where gate fees help a TD do more for a tournament he or she is running.
Let's look at 8 teams in a 5 game guarentee for $400.00 entry fee.
There is a toal of 23 games 4 pool - single elims.
$3200.00 = entry fee monies 8 X $400 there is a total of 23 games
-1725.00 umpires at $40 Plate - $35 Field Per Game fee is $75 X 23 games
- 128.00 = 2 dozen NCAA softballs (That's what I use)
- 115.00 = Umpire scheduler for 23 games X $5.00 per game scheduled
- 280.00 = Hoodies for 14 girls
- 100.00 = 2nd place t-shirts for 14 girls
_______
-2348.00
- 500.00 ball field rentals
________
-2848.00
Now, either carry site insurance @$100 per tourney or pay a sanction $125.00 plus five dollars a team to an association for sanctioning your event with them.
Now, here is where concession makes your money for you as well as gate charges for things not even mentioned here above..like diamond dry, extra porta-johns, etc... Gate helps with motel costs for out of town umpires (cincy and Dayton don't worry about that as it is not needed)...UIC costs ($250-350) plus two nights motel for UIC.
Add it up folks... the above costs somewhere has to be trimmed. That's where gate fees help a TD do more for a tournament he or she is running.
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Complexs here cost anywhere from $125 up per field per day, so $500 would only cover 4 fields for 1 day. Might could run a straight double elimination on 4 fields in 1 day with only 4 fields, but it would be tight.
And where are maintence costs? Every complex I work at charges for their field maintence crews, bathrooms maintence, etc..........
No complex in anywhere I am allow the TD to get concessions.
Maybe that is why I said 30 teams is the make and break.
Ty
And where are maintence costs? Every complex I work at charges for their field maintence crews, bathrooms maintence, etc..........
No complex in anywhere I am allow the TD to get concessions.
Maybe that is why I said 30 teams is the make and break.
Ty
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Where are your fields treck? Manhattan? $125 PLUS maintenance.
Also, Quaker. If your paying $350 for a UIC for an 8 team tournament, your getting $%#@#.
Also, Quaker. If your paying $350 for a UIC for an 8 team tournament, your getting $%#@#.
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The Laser Gold tourney last year (aka The Rebellion) all the profits went to the Gold parents and coach's and Jeff Cavanaugh spit eqaully. We were able to put the money towards hotels at nationals. It is a lot of work and we had perfect weather.(Thank goodness) However I would not quit my day job.
Just a note: Jeff is the coach of the Gold and spends a ton of time on scheduling and orginization of this tourney otherwise he would not have shared in the profits , in fact we had to almost force him to do so anyway to offset his hotel cost.
Just a note: Jeff is the coach of the Gold and spends a ton of time on scheduling and orginization of this tourney otherwise he would not have shared in the profits , in fact we had to almost force him to do so anyway to offset his hotel cost.
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Glad to see you didn't break his arm when you were twisting it. He wouldn't have been able to serve the ice cream
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Ty's correct in saying $125.00 per field per day at some complexes. Western PA was $1500 for four fields for two days... plus use of lights cost added on.
Ringer, that was NSA price two years ago. I don't carry a paid UIC to stand around and pay their motel rooms for two nights to give directions on how to get to a restaurant...lol Have a working UIC actually. Just give him a little more. I do the scheduling of umpires .. so that saves on some of the costs.
Goshen has options on their park. They can work both ways... whether you want the concession or if you don't want to run it. Each org makes their own choice at Goshen. Very easy group to work with actually.
Ringer, that was NSA price two years ago. I don't carry a paid UIC to stand around and pay their motel rooms for two nights to give directions on how to get to a restaurant...lol Have a working UIC actually. Just give him a little more. I do the scheduling of umpires .. so that saves on some of the costs.
Goshen has options on their park. They can work both ways... whether you want the concession or if you don't want to run it. Each org makes their own choice at Goshen. Very easy group to work with actually.
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Savannah = $125.00 per field per day - No concession (new contract negotiations come early Dec between City and Bidder)
Las Vegas = $140.00 per field per day.
Cary, North Carolina = Little less than Savannah.
Las Vegas = $140.00 per field per day.
Cary, North Carolina = Little less than Savannah.
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