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My dd has played @ Sparks, Compuware, Rising Stars in FL, Dynamite Classic in SC, ASA Eastern Nationals in MD, ASA/USA 16U Nationals in TX and will be playing college ball for the coach who saw her @ the Saturday Spano League lol.
Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Where does my pitcher fit in college?
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"Education first, softball second" is the mantra I often hear. But there is a BIG catch - especially if your kid is striving for DI. While you can achieve a college academic scholarship without having an athletic bone in your body, it is impossible to achieve an athletic scholarship without BOTH athletic and academic ability. They go equally hand in hand.
Actually, IMO, this whole "athletic scholarship puzzle" comes down to three key ingredients: athletic ability, academic ability, and discipline/work ethic. A kid will NEVER succeed at the DI level without ALL THREE. The level of play (conference) a kid achieves is determined by balancing the highest score possible in all three categories. Grade a kid in each of these categories at 14u, and you'll get your answer if she's on track to becoming a DI athlete. If a parent cannot honestly do that with their own daughter at 14u, they have not done their homework. A parent should KNOW what skills a DI track pitcher needs by 14u - and no, it's NOT just a 65 mph fastball!
As parents, if you want your kid to succeed in their dreams, YOU must also put in the necessary work! You must study the whole process and be the leader. No one but YOU can guide your daughter - not the high school coach, travel coach or private instructor. You get out of it what you put in. That does not mean doing the work FOR your daughter. It means educating yourself as the adult parent so you know how and when to light a fire under your daughter - when to push, and how hard. All this stuff comes WAY before doing any college searches for softball.
Playing softball at the DI level is not for every kid. Many get disillusioned when they realize how much work they have to put in. It takes a certain mindset to get through, and a continued focus on goals. No pun intended, but it's not all "fun n games". It also takes a little luck getting into a program where you see eye to eye with the coaching staff. I've seen several kids either quit or transfer for that reason alone.
In summary, testing for those three key ingredients is a good qualification test. Deciding where you fit in is another personal decision that is as unique as every kid and every university. I know there are MANY opportunities for kids in Ohio - those numbers have been posted before. But the opportunities are only there for the kids AND parents who are willing to put in the work. There is a simple reason why college athletes are given preference in the hiring process. Employers know that college athletes are held to a high standard of discipline. They are used to hard work and have a "never quit" attitude. After the college softball career is finished, those are the attributes that follow them in life.
Actually, IMO, this whole "athletic scholarship puzzle" comes down to three key ingredients: athletic ability, academic ability, and discipline/work ethic. A kid will NEVER succeed at the DI level without ALL THREE. The level of play (conference) a kid achieves is determined by balancing the highest score possible in all three categories. Grade a kid in each of these categories at 14u, and you'll get your answer if she's on track to becoming a DI athlete. If a parent cannot honestly do that with their own daughter at 14u, they have not done their homework. A parent should KNOW what skills a DI track pitcher needs by 14u - and no, it's NOT just a 65 mph fastball!
As parents, if you want your kid to succeed in their dreams, YOU must also put in the necessary work! You must study the whole process and be the leader. No one but YOU can guide your daughter - not the high school coach, travel coach or private instructor. You get out of it what you put in. That does not mean doing the work FOR your daughter. It means educating yourself as the adult parent so you know how and when to light a fire under your daughter - when to push, and how hard. All this stuff comes WAY before doing any college searches for softball.
Playing softball at the DI level is not for every kid. Many get disillusioned when they realize how much work they have to put in. It takes a certain mindset to get through, and a continued focus on goals. No pun intended, but it's not all "fun n games". It also takes a little luck getting into a program where you see eye to eye with the coaching staff. I've seen several kids either quit or transfer for that reason alone.
In summary, testing for those three key ingredients is a good qualification test. Deciding where you fit in is another personal decision that is as unique as every kid and every university. I know there are MANY opportunities for kids in Ohio - those numbers have been posted before. But the opportunities are only there for the kids AND parents who are willing to put in the work. There is a simple reason why college athletes are given preference in the hiring process. Employers know that college athletes are held to a high standard of discipline. They are used to hard work and have a "never quit" attitude. After the college softball career is finished, those are the attributes that follow them in life.
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I agree with you completely. The time D1 requires must be enormous - not to mention starting at 6:00 am or so.
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I agree with you completely. The time D1 requires must be enormous - not to mention starting at 6:00 am or so.
The more I hear what the D-1 players are majoring in, the more I become convinced of this.
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"Anything in life worth having is worth working for." - Andrew Carnegie
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D1 is a job make no mistake about it. Regimentation and time management are the point that everything revolves around. Especially if your dd is a freshman. 60 hours a week for classes, conditioning, practice, study tables not to mention the occasional team fundraising by working clinics and you cant leave out the obligation that the softball team has to the university by working in events for other sports or organisations.
Oh yes I forgot to add in time for homework and trying to sneak in a bite to eat and sleep. It is defiantly a different road to travel.
athletic ability, academic ability, and discipline/work ethic. This says it all.
Tim
Oh yes I forgot to add in time for homework and trying to sneak in a bite to eat and sleep. It is defiantly a different road to travel.
athletic ability, academic ability, and discipline/work ethic. This says it all.
Tim
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And factor into this discussion these 2 rules:
1. Teenage girls will change their minds. (school choice, major, sports, no sports)
2. There is nothing Dads or Moms can do about Rule #1.
The best thing is that it will all work out in the end.
1. Teenage girls will change their minds.
(school choice, major, sports, no sports)2. There is nothing Dads or Moms can do about Rule #1.
The best thing is that it will all work out in the end.
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I agree with you completely. The time D1 requires must be enormous - not to mention starting at 6:00 am or so.
It isn't only D1 programs that have the 5-6 AM workouts. Have your dd talk to any prospective coaches about their practice schedule and off season workouts.
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Our high school team has 5:30 AM conditioning all winter!!!
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Pretty much any D1,D2 or JC that is successful has a crazy schedule. I'm not sure about NAIA or D3 I don't have any first hand knowledge. For example here in NWO Owens CC who made it to the National championship game as a team did P90X for 3 months in the morning. Owens which is considered a D2 JC because they don't have housing gives out 24 full rides for softball. JC's can be an option, they don't even pay for parking passes.
I was at a clinic on playing college ball and there were 4 college speakers. BGSU's coach has 12 softball scholarships, Bluffton D3 has zero, Findlay D2 had 3 1/2, Owens had 24 lol.
I was at a clinic on playing college ball and there were 4 college speakers. BGSU's coach has 12 softball scholarships, Bluffton D3 has zero, Findlay D2 had 3 1/2, Owens had 24 lol.
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Findlay is a pricey school and I have been told that academic scholarships become athletic scholarships if ANY athletic money is added to them. I don't see how they could do it with 3 1/2 full scholarships unless those rules vary from school to school.
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Where did you find the clinic? Where would you suggest I go to learn about college recruiting? It is looking to be much more complicated than I would have guessed. With all the rules, written and unwritten it all seems a little crazy. LOL Any help appreciated.
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First thing I'd suggest is getting the book: Preparing to play softball at collegiate level by Catharine Aradi. Its good and has every college listed with contact info, division, etc.
2nd look for clinics that also have time set aside to discuss playing college ball.
Narrow your list of schools
5 dream schools
5 Schools you think your DD could get into and play for
5 Schools you know your DD can get into and play for.
So let's say your DD on the outset likes Ashland, she does her research following the guidelines in the book, she does her research on the school, softball team, the league they play in etc. She takes an unofficial visit to check it out but doesn't love it. Her research led her to Hillsdale college, same league. She does research on Hillsdale and decides to take an unofficial visit and she loves it. They have everything she wants, now she has to find out if softball wise she's a fit.
Got to start someplace, once you get going its not that overwhelming. Majors can help you narrow your list even more.
Lastly...OFC is a great resource there are a ton of parents who went through it, travel coaches who've guided players through it, former players themselves and college coaches who recruit all willing to help.
If you've ticked off one great source of information here on OFC in the handicap player thread. I'd apologize and buy him a beer lol.
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I certainly will! It would be awful if she committed and found that out too late. Of course, eventually her sleeping habits will change a bit, but for right now she is is full-fledged growing teenager mode.
ps - going to check out that book now!
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Sorry, a little off topic here.......
NCAA rules don't allow BGSU to have 12 full scholarships. Please don't mislead people. BGSU has 12 scholarships (if they are fully funded) and these are "equivalency" scholarships. There are two types of sports - "head count" and "equivalency". "head count" (football, basketball, volleyball, and a very few others) are full scholarships that MUST be given to a single athlete (this is at the D1 level only and I believe at D2 many of these sports become "equivalency"). "Equivalency" (baseball, softball, wrestling, etc...) are NOT guaranteed full scholarships and CAN be divided up amongst as many athletes as they wish. As an example BGSU has money worth 12 full scholarships (again if they are fully funded) and that can be distributed any way they see fit among their roster of 18. Can't say for sure what a Junior College does, but I would highly doubt they have 24 full scholarships. What they probably said was they have 24 on the roster receiving some sort of money.
If you hear a parent tell you that their DD received a full ride scholarship in softball you should look at them with some serious skepticism. Don't be fooled by the parents that don't want to admit the truth that they wasted $10,000 of dollars and they really have no scholarship money to speak of. And if you are one of those parents.....please quit perpetuating the myth.
If you are a parent then do your homework by going to the NCAA website and understand the key differences between "head count" and "equivalency" and know which sports are which.
This is why if your daughter is good at basketball or volleyball you should put your efforts there if you are thinking scholarship. Better yet take the advice of some others on here and have your DD spend more time studying. 100 times more money academically then will ever be available athletically.
NCAA rules don't allow BGSU to have 12 full scholarships. Please don't mislead people. BGSU has 12 scholarships (if they are fully funded) and these are "equivalency" scholarships. There are two types of sports - "head count" and "equivalency". "head count" (football, basketball, volleyball, and a very few others) are full scholarships that MUST be given to a single athlete (this is at the D1 level only and I believe at D2 many of these sports become "equivalency"). "Equivalency" (baseball, softball, wrestling, etc...) are NOT guaranteed full scholarships and CAN be divided up amongst as many athletes as they wish. As an example BGSU has money worth 12 full scholarships (again if they are fully funded) and that can be distributed any way they see fit among their roster of 18. Can't say for sure what a Junior College does, but I would highly doubt they have 24 full scholarships. What they probably said was they have 24 on the roster receiving some sort of money.
If you hear a parent tell you that their DD received a full ride scholarship in softball you should look at them with some serious skepticism. Don't be fooled by the parents that don't want to admit the truth that they wasted $10,000 of dollars and they really have no scholarship money to speak of. And if you are one of those parents.....please quit perpetuating the myth.
If you are a parent then do your homework by going to the NCAA website and understand the key differences between "head count" and "equivalency" and know which sports are which.
This is why if your daughter is good at basketball or volleyball you should put your efforts there if you are thinking scholarship. Better yet take the advice of some others on here and have your DD spend more time studying. 100 times more money academically then will ever be available athletically.
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Actually what BGSU's coach said was I have 12 scholarships I divide amongst the team and Duane Lanham of Owens said I have 24 FULL scholarships...they don't divide the money up, it covers everything but housing. I know the difference between I have 24 kids on my team and 24 scholarships lol.They are a D2 JC so they can't cover housing, so they recruit from the region. Findlay's coach divided his 3 1/2 amongst his team.
https://www.owens.edu/owens_today/press/NR1128.html
That was an article from 2005 or 2006, I listened to him speak in 2009.
When reading that notice those are 1st year players, there are also 2nd year players on scholarship, he uses 20+ a year but doesn't always use all his scholarships.
I have no idea how what I said could be misleading.
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Good info LAKEFP and UBER - just sort thru it all... lol.
Here is the breakdown for DI sports - you can Google for other divisions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_I_%28NCAA%29
Read the Wiki part about finances. After the warm & fuzzy feeling about your kid getting an athletic scholarship fades a little, remember that universities are businesses, and financial decisions are based purely on profit/loss/distribution scenarios. A successful football program is golden for a University, and the flow of $$ from it can ensure a softball program is well funded. Softball programs without the "Sugar Daddy" football program often struggle for funding. Consider that when you visit some of the more *ahem* well-funded softball programs in Ohio, and how they continue to thrive without a winning season.
The distribution of athletic scholarship money within a team is determined by need and economics. The head coach prioritizes by position and need - obviously pitchers, catchers, shortstop, center field in general order of priority. Next comes things like hitting prowess and speed. Common sense says pitchers are the top recruits, and garner the lion's share of available scholarship funds. A capable pitcher is simply going to have more options as far as school choices.
IMO, if a pitcher has been playing competitive showcases on a known top Ohio team, she should strive for DI first. If she has been putting in the effort, why sell her efforts short? Playing travel ball is about striving for the top, so shoot for as high on the ladder as you can. Being that recruiting is a numbers game, a pitcher is eventually going to settle into her ability/comfort zone. I think many kids start too low assuming they can't get a spot at the DI level. If a kid is focused on just one or two schools, they will usually be disappointed, and many opportunities will pass them by.
Wins, losses and ERA for travel pitchers are all relative. If a pitcher cannot show that those wins and low ERA came from playing KNOWN competitive teams - you may lose a coaches interest. College coaches want to see college-capable kids at 16u. A pitcher cannot demonstrate college-capable skills against unskilled batters. Every game at the DI level is against like-skilled players. College coaches want battle-tested pitchers who can handle the pressure. A pitcher's ERA will not resemble their high school ERA. (You can blame that on certain Valpo recruits ...couldn't resist!)
Seriously, browse the rosters of the Ohio DI teams. Look at potential roster spots. That's no guarantee, but it gives you a good idea how loaded a roster is and where to target your recruiting efforts. Depending on your DD's choice of major, eliminate schools as needed. KEEP IN MIND - nearly 1/3 of freshmen change their major. So use that as a guide.
Here is the breakdown for DI sports - you can Google for other divisions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_I_%28NCAA%29
Read the Wiki part about finances. After the warm & fuzzy feeling about your kid getting an athletic scholarship fades a little, remember that universities are businesses, and financial decisions are based purely on profit/loss/distribution scenarios. A successful football program is golden for a University, and the flow of $$ from it can ensure a softball program is well funded. Softball programs without the "Sugar Daddy" football program often struggle for funding. Consider that when you visit some of the more *ahem* well-funded softball programs in Ohio, and how they continue to thrive without a winning season.
The distribution of athletic scholarship money within a team is determined by need and economics. The head coach prioritizes by position and need - obviously pitchers, catchers, shortstop, center field in general order of priority. Next comes things like hitting prowess and speed. Common sense says pitchers are the top recruits, and garner the lion's share of available scholarship funds. A capable pitcher is simply going to have more options as far as school choices.
IMO, if a pitcher has been playing competitive showcases on a known top Ohio team, she should strive for DI first. If she has been putting in the effort, why sell her efforts short? Playing travel ball is about striving for the top, so shoot for as high on the ladder as you can. Being that recruiting is a numbers game, a pitcher is eventually going to settle into her ability/comfort zone. I think many kids start too low assuming they can't get a spot at the DI level. If a kid is focused on just one or two schools, they will usually be disappointed, and many opportunities will pass them by.
Wins, losses and ERA for travel pitchers are all relative. If a pitcher cannot show that those wins and low ERA came from playing KNOWN competitive teams - you may lose a coaches interest. College coaches want to see college-capable kids at 16u. A pitcher cannot demonstrate college-capable skills against unskilled batters. Every game at the DI level is against like-skilled players. College coaches want battle-tested pitchers who can handle the pressure. A pitcher's ERA will not resemble their high school ERA. (You can blame that on certain Valpo recruits
...couldn't resist!)Seriously, browse the rosters of the Ohio DI teams. Look at potential roster spots. That's no guarantee, but it gives you a good idea how loaded a roster is and where to target your recruiting efforts. Depending on your DD's choice of major, eliminate schools as needed. KEEP IN MIND - nearly 1/3 of freshmen change their major. So use that as a guide.
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A pitcher's ERA will not resemble their high school ERA. (You can blame that on certain Valpo recruits ...couldn't resist!)
Thats funny stuff. You made me dribble my coffee
Thats funny stuff. You made me dribble my coffee
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lol. Good advice.
That book was not an easy find. Amazon only had real old printings and ebay didn't have it at all. Found her new 2012 version from her web site. This sounds like a plan. I like the idea of a list of schools. That should make it manageable. Her dream schools would be Florida or UK. I think I should have her scale the dream list down a level. I don't know squat about schools in this region so I will have to get help from some parents on her team who have seen her play. Thanks for the help.
