Overhand Throwing Speed ?

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I have seen where more and more showcases and camps are asking for this or measuring it.
What is an average overhand throwing speed for High School age kids?

I see the importance for some spots, just looking.
 
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Throwing speed, like most other metrics, are a measuring stick for coaches. I think most college coaches will say that 50 mph on an overhand throw is a minimum requirement for a college-level athlete.
 
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Throwing speed, like most other metrics, are a measuring stick for coaches. I think most college coaches will say that 50 mph on an overhand throw is a minimum requirement for a college-level athlete.

Many of our girls throw in the range of 58 to 68 MPH off a gun.

Technique is critical! In my opinion it is because most coaches do not understand how the female body works and it has to do with weight shift and the flex in the front knee.

This was why Crystl and I changed the format in the clinics to show throwing first so we could show the relationship to hitting and landing on a flexed knee.

The glutes in a male fire (bend upon landing) and the females do not!

Why do you think so many girls blow out the ACL in basketball? The male coaches in my opinion do not tell then to land on the ball of the foot on a flexed knee as we (males) do it automatically and they have to be trained how to do it!

This is why I have for years taught how to throw before we teach hitting.

If you think the college coaches know how to teach throwing watch them in warm ups and see if the back leg follows through :lmao:

Also there is another issue especially in women termed laxity. Their shoulders and ACL's are looser than ours and especially more, once a month.
 
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I was thinking that an average high school kid should be mid 50's, and a college level player should be capable of at least 60+.

After Howard explained to me how throwing and hitting are so closely related, I began paying particularly close attention to college players this season, and how they threw during warm ups. I was absolutely flabbergasted at how many were NOT flexing the front knee, and not bringing the back leg through! And right on cue, these were the kids who also did NOT have a very fluid "baseball" swing with the bat.

I also happened to be watching a high school legion baseball team the other evening during throwing warm-ups. Some of the BOYS were absolutely horrible! Short side-arm throws with no follow through. You can imagine what their swings looked like!

Throwing speed is a product of correct form. Guaranteed a smart college coach is looking at form FIRST, because without good form, top throwing speed will be severely compromised.
 
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I think it would be beneficial for you to spend several years coaching college softball before you criticize the coaches. Unless you are at practice everyday and have a great understanding of the fundamental training that takes place daily at practice, it is ridiculous to make any generalization about what they know. The female overhand throw is the most fundamentally incorrect movement is sports, period. I have a great knowledge of the overhand throw as do all the college coaches I know. I feel reasonably certain that most coaches dedicate daily practice time to proper throwing technique. You can demonstrate, review film, put them in front of a mirror and coach them up, the bottom line is the athlete has to throw the ball. Please keep in mind that the college coach gets an athlete that has been throwing incorrectly for perhaps 12 years before they get to college, think about how many times that athlete has thrown wrong.

Many of our girls throw in the range of 58 to 68 MPH off a gun.

Technique is critical! In my opinion it is because most coaches do not understand how the female body works and it has to do with weight shift and the flex in the front knee.

This was why Crystl and I changed the format in the clinics to show throwing first so we could show the relationship to hitting and landing on a flexed knee.

The glutes in a male fire (bend upon landing) and the females do not!

Why do you think so many girls blow out the ACL in basketball? The male coaches in my opinion do not tell then to land on the ball of the foot on a flexed knee as we (males) do it automatically and they have to be trained how to do it!

This is why I have for years taught how to throw before we teach hitting.

If you think the college coaches know how to teach throwing watch them in warm ups and see if the back leg follows through :lmao:

Also there is another issue especially in women termed laxity. Their shoulders and ACL's are looser than ours and especially more, once a month.
 
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homer-eating-popcorn-small-c7873.jpg
 
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I think it would be beneficial for you to spend several years coaching college softball before you criticize the coaches. Unless you are at practice everyday and have a great understanding of the fundamental training that takes place daily at practice, it is ridiculous to make any generalization about what they know. The female overhand throw is the most fundamentally incorrect movement is sports, period. I have a great knowledge of the overhand throw as do all the college coaches I know. I feel reasonably certain that most coaches dedicate daily practice time to proper throwing technique. You can demonstrate, review film, put them in front of a mirror and coach them up, the bottom line is the athlete has to throw the ball. Please keep in mind that the college coach gets an athlete that has been throwing incorrectly for perhaps 12 years before they get to college, think about how many times that athlete has thrown wrong.

So, what do you look for in a kid that DOES have poor throwing mechanics in order to qualify her as a college athlete?
 
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I think it would be beneficial for you to spend several years coaching college softball before you criticize the coaches. Unless you are at practice everyday and have a great understanding of the fundamental training that takes place daily at practice, it is ridiculous to make any generalization about what they know. The female overhand throw is the most fundamentally incorrect movement is sports, period. I have a great knowledge of the overhand throw as do all the college coaches I know. I feel reasonably certain that most coaches dedicate daily practice time to proper throwing technique. You can demonstrate, review film, put them in front of a mirror and coach them up, the bottom line is the athlete has to throw the ball. Please keep in mind that the college coach gets an athlete that has been throwing incorrectly for perhaps 12 years before they get to college, think about how many times that athlete has thrown wrong.

I got a great opportunity to watch the college the colleges throwing techniques for 2.5 years while with the Chinese and I was not in pressed.

Chip you and I also saw this when I worked with you.

When I worked with Coach Larabee he got it and saw the difference, so some coaches do see the difference.

No flex in the front knee! I wonder how that could be over looked!
 
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I see plenty of players who have less than perfect throwing technique. I am sure you have seen plenty of them on tv in the past few weeks. Just because your technique is less than instructional video quality does not mean you can not have a great throwing arm.
 
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I was not around the Chineese or the college coaches you were exposed to, so if you say they do not know how to teach throwing, well you were there.

I got a great opportunity to watch the college the colleges throwing techniques for 2.5 years while with the Chinese and I was not in pressed.

Chip you and I also saw this when I worked with you.

When I worked with Coach Larabee he got it and saw the difference, so some coaches do see the difference.

No flex in the front knee! I wonder how that could be over looked!
 
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I got a great opportunity to watch the college the colleges throwing techniques for 2.5 years while with the Chinese and I was not in pressed.

Chip you and I also saw this when I worked with you.

When I worked with Coach Larabee he got it and saw the difference, so some coaches do see the difference.

No flex in the front knee! I wonder how that could be over looked!

I have personally witnessed Chip go through throwing progressions and stress proper throwing technique more than I care to remember. Jim Parker, John Miller, and Bill Downey of the Glen Este Lady Trojans Middle School team worked on throwing progressions and proper throwing technique at every practice and before every game. I have seen videos or read articles by college coaches stessing proper throwing technique. Our team works on it every practice. So, what happens? The game happens.......

The players get hurried and technique gets thrown out the window. Don't believe me? Check out the photo galleries from the link below to see some not so flattering action still shots of players throwing and hitting....from a team who's coach got it and saw the difference.

Len

http://www.wsuraiders.com/sports/w-softbl/spec-rel/gallery_index.html
http://www.wsuraiders.com/view.gal?id=45246
 
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There are probably many game clips of Alex Rodriguez with bad throwing form. BUT - the telling thing is - how does he look in warm-ups?

If you REALLY want to see how a kid was taught, watch her throwing during pre-game warm-ups, where she's going to throw with her ingrained mechanics. If she's using poor form THEN, game mechanics aren't going to magically improve!!

Same reason a pitcher should be watching her next "customer" swing in the on-deck circle. Warm-up (non-stressed) mechanics are VERY telling.
 
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There are probably many game clips of Alex Rodriguez with bad throwing form. BUT - the telling thing is - how does he look in warm-ups?

If you REALLY want to see how a kid was taught, watch her throwing during pre-game warm-ups, where she's going to throw with her ingrained mechanics. If she's using poor form THEN, game mechanics aren't going to magically improve!!

Same reason a pitcher should be watching her next "customer" swing in the on-deck circle. Warm-up (non-stressed) mechanics are VERY telling.

What difference does it make if you do not bring it to the game? I don't understand......


I will guarantee you the A-Rod is not focusing on his mechanics during warm-ups. He's doing nothing more than loosening up without thought of mechanics. He's flicking the ball, submarining it, standing straight up, etc......believe it.

Len
 
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This is not about Chip and Howard as I said you see it at the college level everyday and Chip is a college coach so it is my general observation and my opinion.

Len as to the college coach who in my opinion "got it" look around and name me a coach who up graded and moved to the SEC from the Midwest.

From the net...

Laxity
"Females tend to have more *** ligaments than males, which is thought to put their joints at increased risk for injury. A recent study showed that the risk of injury in females may correlate to hormonal changes associated with the menstrual cycle. In particular, female athletes may be more prone to knee ligament injuries, shoulder instability and ankle sprains. "



Shoulder
"Increased ligament laxity may place the female athlete at higher risk for shoulder instability. Particularly in overhead sports such as volleyball, tennis, swimming and softball or baseball. Women tend to have decreased upper body strength as well, adding to the risk. Rotator cuff strengthening exercises may help to prevent this injury. Internal and external rotation exercises using elastic tubing with the arm at the side is particularly helpful. For athletes who continue to have problems with shoulder laxity despite these treatments, new arthroscopic techniques allow for "shrinking" the *** ligaments, using a thermal heating probe."


I have seen this time after time with females especially! If they do not hit well as to stride and weight shift for hitting they usually have poor throwing mechanics and balance.You will also see them hitting with their weight more over the front leg verses up against it at an angle.



The main factors affecting throwing is they do not land on the ball of the foot and do not land on a flexed knee to allow the weight to transfer and for the back leg to release. They do not use the glove side arm efficiently either in my opinion.



While doing a clinic with Howard Kabota, we discussed he was teaching a high level throwing technique to girls who could not even get balanced properly and the leg was stiff and not flexed.


There were about 60 plus coaches at the clinic and not one of them could explain how to get balanced!


Howard K sent me an email three weeks after the clinic and said he started teaching balance before throwing and was having greater success by doing this.


When balance is understood, the next step for throwing is too land on the ball of the foot with a flexed knee and finishing your release to the glove side thigh verses snapping the wrist and leaving the arm out in front of you. 80% of the arm injuries happen in the deceleration phase of throwing and that is after the release.


The ACL is at risk for throwing as well as hitting yet little attention is paid to either in my opinion.


I have also noticed the carrying angle differences in the female requires over hand angle adjustments in their throwing mechanics because they have a 4 to 10 degree difference that as males we do not have.


Throwing progression may be important however balance and landing on the ball of the foot on a flexed knee does not happen for the female naturally and MUST be taught. Their glutes do not fire like ours to flex the knee.


From the net... ? Additionally, bio mechanical research shows that the gluteus muscles, or external rotators of the hip, fire differently in males and females. In males, the hip muscles fire a split second before landing, thus stabilizing the hips, or core. With females, the gluts' don?t fire before or after landing, so the hips rotate in, the knees buckle inward, and the ACL is stressed.

Source: David Marshal, M.D .Medical Director, Sports Medicine Program Children's Healthcare of Atlanta
 
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I will guarantee you the A-Rod is not focusing on his mechanics during warm-ups. He's doing nothing more than loosening up without thought of mechanics. He's flicking the ball, submarining it, standing straight up, etc......believe it.
I'll never believe for a minute that A-Rod thinks he is so good that he's become a step-skipper. Conversely, that is WHY he is so good at what he does... routine. So much of a routine, I'm betting he can do it in his sleep. Maybe you got to the game too late to see stretching, TP & BP?

What difference does it make if you do not bring it to the game? I don't understand......
Simple: If a girl *gulp* "throws like a girl" in warm-ups, GUARANTEED she'll do it EVERY TIME in a game - even routine throws. The old litmus test. She's not gonna make that throw 3rd to 1st hard enough when the team needs it most...

Well... unless she's as good as A-Rod, then she was probably BORN with great throwing/swing mechanics... :rolleyes:

There are two basic things in watching a kid try out for a team. Have her run out to the fence and back, and watch her throw overhand half a dozen times. Those two exercises take about 5 minutes, and tell volumes about what a coach has to work with.

So, let's help wmorrison out here. What are some suggestions for improving throwing speed so a kid will become a better college prospect?
 
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forum,
Correct throwing has more to do with what it says in the scorebook, than what a player looks like when she throws... If you have the right radar-gun you might get 68mph, otherwise, I have never seen a 68mph overhand throw in girls fastpitch at any level... There are more players under 60 mph than over 60mph...
Ron
 
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Howard

My reply had nothing to do with Chip, Larabee, etc. It had to do with this statement from you.

If you think the college coaches know how to teach throwing watch them in warm ups and see if the back leg follows through :lmao:

This is a very bold and uninformed statement.

My daughters play club volleyball, and many tournaments are played at colleges. In the past few years, there have been a handful of times that fastpitch players were at the complex in auxillary gyms working on various techniques. Between volleyball games I would watch the fastpitch players work on their craft. The teams that come to mind are Miami, WSU, CSU, UK, Louisville, and OU. They were all working on proper throwing, fielding, or hitting techniques in the gym.


You brought up Larabee's name and how he "got it". I showed proof using his own team that it doesn't necessarily come through during game play. Also, if you search YouTube for pre-game warmups of higher level ball, you will also find that the players are not necessarily focusing on proper throwing technique during this time. They are doing nothing more than lossening up and clearing their minds. Also during this time the coaches are talking with umpires, the opponents coach, their own staff, focusing on injured players to see if they are ready to go, strategizing, etc.

Technique is stressed at practice. You can't go by pre-game warmups to determine anything.


Len
 

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