How Many Pitches Does a Pitcher Need?

InSider · Jul 18, 2016

We have all heard that so and so's daughter has ALL the pitches. Fastball, drop, curve, screw, rise, change up, offspeed, rise curve, rise screw, drop curve, drop screw, knuckle change, circle change, flip change, behind the back, off the elbow....and so on.

How many pitches does a pitcher need to be truly effective? I think, if a pitcher says they have a gazillion pitches, I have to wonder how good any single pitch is. I believe a fastball that can be placed is a no-brainer. I also believe that a good change up that can be thrown for a strike, without slowing the body or arm down, is a huge plus. If a pitcher doesn't have a ton of speed, I think movement is a must. So a pitcher needs to perfect one really good movement pitch. I also think the ability to be consistent with those 3 pitches is a must, as it keeps the hitter guessing. They never know what you're going to throw for a strike.

What do you feel about the screw/curve vs rise/drop argument? I know that some people believe that the curve and screw aren't terrible safe to throw. Others believe that a rise ball will never get the desired result under "x" miles per hour. Some believe that throwing a curve or screw keeps the ball on the same plane as the bat, and is therefore very hittable. Others believe that a rise or drop that misses is a homerun. Some believe that stepping right or left for curve or screw will tip the batter. Others believe that you must shorten or lengthen stride for a drop or rise, therefore promoting back issues.

I know we all believe that you need more than just speed. Flat speed works for a little bit until the hitters catch up. If you've got nothing else, you WILL get hit. Hard. So what would your ideal pitcher's arsenal look like?

lewam3 · Jul 18, 2016

I think a great pitcher should be able to throw ALL pitches (FB,S,C,R,Ch,Dp,DC)
Then that pitcher can use primarily 2 movement pitches per batter. Not per game, or per inning. that's just my opinion.

coachjwb · Jul 18, 2016

3 is a minimum and is all you "need" ... my daughter proved that to me by playing 4 years of D3 college ball (and breaking her school's career wins record along the way) with strictly a fastball she could place, a knuckle change that she could consistently throw strikes with and was willing to throw on an any count, and a drop ball. She would have liked to have had a 4th ... ideally a rise ... but could never get the consistency with it in practicing that made her comfortable to throw it in games.

I think young pitchers should absolutely "perfect" their fastball placement and changeup before even learning new pitches, and I believe that the arm speed and footwork should be consistent with every pitch. I am perfectly fine with developing pitchers to learn and experiment with some of the other pitches and see which ones they might be able to throw well, but I personally consider 5 as sort of a "maximum" for 95+% of the pitchers out there. I hated it when I had pitchers coming to a tryout and/or who wanted to warmup for a game with 7-9 pitches, and I personally never coached a pitcher or even watched a lot of a pitcher (e.g., DD's college teammates) who could throw more than 4 pitches consistently well ... though I recognize that there are those who can.

Practice? · Jul 18, 2016

If your counting a fastball, then I think four pitches would be sufficient. However I would agree with lewam3 that more is better providing you can locate.

FastBat · Jul 18, 2016

They probably end with 5:
1. FB
2. Change
3. Drop
4. Curve
5. Rise

That's all they need. And I think there is a fuzzy line between drop and drop curve.
I like the curve, but I'm not a fan of horizontal changing pitches, I think vertically moving pitches are harder to hit.

Also a note about location. We only practice inside and outside, low. I was telling someone the other day, now I'm proud I always stood my ground, my dd never throws high, even practicing. In fact, we don't even say "throw high" in our house, it's forbidden. There was a parent yelling to her dd the other day, don't throw high. I thought, why did you teach her how to do it in the first place? Parents of 8u girls, don't teach your dd's to throw high!

Also, if a drop doesn't drop and hangs it still has a hop. Then you see that bat "wave" over and under the ball. Still a successful pitch.

sftball follower · Jul 18, 2016

guess you could eliminate #5 rise unless you start it at the shoe strings.......

lewam3 · Jul 18, 2016

FastBat said:
They probably end with 5:
1. FB
2. Change
3. Drop
4. Curve
5. Rise

That's all they need. And I think there is a fuzzy line between drop and drop curve.
I like the curve, but I'm not a fan of horizontal changing pitches, I think vertically moving pitches are harder to hit.

Also a note about location. We only practice inside and outside, low. I was telling someone the other day, now I'm proud I always stood my ground, my dd never throws high, even practicing. In fact, we don't even say "throw high" in our house, it's forbidden. There was a parent yelling to her dd the other day, don't throw high. I thought, why did you teach her how to do it in the first place? Parents of 8u girls, don't teach your dd's to throw high!

Also, if a drop doesn't drop and hangs it still has a hop. Then you see that bat "wave" over and under the ball. Still a successful pitch.

you have to have a screw ball

FastBat · Jul 18, 2016

sftball follower said:
guess you could eliminate #5 rise unless you start it at the shoe strings.......

Well, of course, that would be the exception. But, even that is moving, not just hanging like a fastball or as I like to refer to it as, home run derby!

DJB11 · Jul 18, 2016

My daughter goes to a pitching coach that also is a pitching coach in the SEC. He says all you need is a drop ball, a rise ball and a change up. (Noting that if you throw a Fast Ball properly, it will be a drop ball) With this being said, she also throws a screw and a curve, which are also very effective pitches.

crystlemc · Jul 18, 2016

My DD throws a drop, change, rise (which she throws high and low). Using finger pressure, she can make a rise or drop cut in or out. She does not throw a screw or curve in the traditional sense.

G3automotive · Jul 19, 2016

This thread is funny I mean really funny !!!!!

cobb_of_fury · Jul 19, 2016

To answer the OP's Question, How many pitches does a pitcher need? - ONE but it's got to be good.

In reality you need to be able to throw A fastball to spots and change speed.
Then add a Change up to make the speed change more significant - Once you can throw the fastball and change to all spots consistently
Then add the Drop - Once you can hit all spots consistently with those work on the Rise -
Once you have those then maybe think about the Screw Ball or Curve -

But it's all about changing speeds and hitting spots no matter what pitch you throw

FastBat · Jul 19, 2016

AcePitching said:
If your instructor is teaching you a curve before a rise...ask them why. Why would anyone teach a curve before a rise ball? Which one stays in the hitting zone? The curve. So why spend that time early in the development teaching a pitch that stays on plane with the bat instead of one that doesnt? Happens a lot and its just dumb!

She was only 10 years old, had been throwing a FB, change, drop in games for over a year and was ready to learn a new pitch. Plus, she was still throwing with the 11 inch ball. The instructor didn't think it was appropriate to be throwing a rise and I remember her telling me she had never taught any pitcher that young to throw that pitch. I also think my dd was just doing spins and then just starting throwing it in full pitches. She is 11 now and working on a rise, but is not throwing it in a game at all. She is working on what her team needs her to throw and so the rise is on the back burner for now, we will get to it in her second year 12u. I can honestly say I have never asked the instructor to teach my dd a new pitch, she does when she thinks she is ready and I trust her judgement.

Also, mixing a drop and curve is also a successful pitch.

carlyderose · Jul 19, 2016

In my opinion, a successful pitcher is defined as somebody who can throw the pitches they know with command, and change speeds. I currently pitch in college and I am successful with changing the location of my screw-ball and curve-ball, and changing speeds. If somebody were to ask me in high school what pitches I throw, I would have a list of over 7. Now, I would say screw and curve (both thrown regular and back door), and off-speed. I can honestly say that in my three years as a college pitcher so far, I have thrown less than 10 fastballs in games, but every pitcher should be able to throw that.

As far as the screw/curve vs. rise/drop argument, that depends on the pitcher. I can throw all four of those pitches, but my screw and curve are more successful. Whatever your go-to pitch is other than a fastball, you need to be able to throw the pitch that moves in the opposite direction.

A good arsenal would be:
1) Screw/curve OR rise/drop
2) Off-speed OR change-up

Keep it simple.

FastBat · Jul 19, 2016

I guess, my dd will be learning a screw after her rise, lol!

Do lefty's thrown a screw? Is that a good idea?

Fairman · Jul 19, 2016

The answer is a moving target. Learning to pitch is a constantly moving skill and what is appropriate for a 10U is not the same for an 18U. What will work for my dd will not work for yours. When a kid is starting out a Fastball and a Change is all she needs. As she gains command, a bit of speed and her hands grow, a drop can be added relatively early in the process. She will be successful because even if she doesn't get it to break, gravity will help and she learn to keep the ball low in the zone.

She should then learn a curve and a screw (probably a curve first, easier to spin for a righty). Last she will learn a rise because it needs the most speed and spin to be effective along with her more mature physic. There are many variations and combinations including the same pitch at different speeds but these are the main horses she will need to ride to become a pitcher.

When she begins to learn these is a function of her mental and physical maturity and her support system (coaches, catchers, teachers, practice gyms, etc..) I believe that she needs to be introduced to all these pitches early rather than later. She should NOT be held back until she masters any one pitch or even until she can 'hit her spots' with a fastball. In order to keep advancing she needs to be pushing her herself to the far edge of self control. You can not place the emphasis on control at the sacrifice of MORE speed. Her 12U speed must be increased; if her 18+ speed is going to carry through college.

There are numerous reasons for learning a variety of pitches early, primarily it will keep your dd interested and challenged and it might be the 5th pitch she learns that will be her bread and butter. Learning to pitch is a constant feed-back loop that is never complete until she hangs up her spikes, hopefully after fatastically successful college career.

lewam3 · Jul 19, 2016

AcePitching said:
If your instructor is teaching you a curve before a rise...ask them why. Why would anyone teach a curve before a rise ball? Which one stays in the hitting zone? The curve. So why spend that time early in the development teaching a pitch that stays on plane with the bat instead of one that doesnt? Happens a lot and its just dumb!

curve and rise are very very close cousins

Pacerdad57 · Jul 19, 2016

My DD is a lefty and throws a really nice screwball, but then again a screwball should be able to throw a screwball!!
Her moving pitches are her best and like stated earlier in this thread, her fastbal tails sharply down and in to a righty.

Pacerdad57 · Jul 19, 2016

Very close cousins lewam. Just that additional finishing up on the rise is the only variation the way her pitching coach has taught her

CoachB25 · Jul 19, 2016

Not popular but the truth is, most people who claim that their child has 5 or 6 pitches and can throw all of them for a strike qualify for the Pinocchio award. The real facts are that a, "good pitcher" can throw maybe two pitches consistently for a strike where the pitch is supposed to be located. Many have a third pitch that they have confidence in. From there, they may throw fifty pitches but who knows where those pitches are going to end up. My dd went 29-1 in the circle in HS ball and didn't pitch her senior year at all. In TB she threw as a #1 or #2 for her teams. They did exceptionally well. If you asked her what pitch would she throw if she had to throw a strike, she'd say drop ball and then she'd say that the goal is to have it really not be a strike. She had an exceptional one. If you asked her about her fastball, she'd tell you that it was good and she rarely threw it in games. If you asked about her rise, she'd say that at times, it was a high fastball. If you asked her about her change, she'd laugh. It was her favorite pitch and she could throw it for a strike anytime she wanted. Did she have a curve? Yes. Laugh. Did she have a screw ball? Bigger laugh. If you are absolutely bored to death and want to see her recruitment video which was way too long, she has a portion where she pitches. Type into YouTube Brianna Butler Softball Skills Video. She had just turned 16 by a week or two when that was taken. I could tell you what she was gunned at but why. It doesn't matter. She was recruited for her bat and never pitched in college.

How Many Pitches Does a Pitcher Need?

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