Pitching and Pitchers Discussion How many pitches?

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How do you play 68 games in 2 years?

made it to the state finals in Indiana 08 30-4

last yr 28-2 and lost 4 games to rain

sorry 58-6......... kept thinking about the total number we should have played

 

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fastball, change up, drop ball. Not a fan of the curve. But I'm a Bill Hillhouse fan. Talk to any elite hitter and the hardest pitch to hit is the rise. Next year in high school the drop will be a better weapon at 43 feet. As Sammy posted few master the rise ball. Those that do, are some of the toughest pitchers to hit. Your team will know it when you face one. I was lucky to have a girl last year. She would average 14 K's a game , because in high school coaches still have them move up in the box. Watch Emily of the Doom 95 , if you want to see a young girl destroy you with the rise! Doug knows he can hang with anyone with her pitching.

You may not be a fan of the curve, but the worlds best pitchers (female) live on it. Tincher and Finch (two great ones) throw more rise than curve, but Cat, Hollowell Abbott and Fernandez throw tons of curves. It is by far Cats best pitch.

 

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fastball, change up, drop ball. Not a fan of the curve. But I'm a Bill Hillhouse fan. Talk to any elite hitter and the hardest pitch to hit is the rise. Next year in high school the drop will be a better weapon at 43 feet. As Sammy posted few master the rise ball. Those that do, are some of the toughest pitchers to hit. Your team will know it when you face one. I was lucky to have a girl last year. She would average 14 K's a game , because in high school coaches still have them move up in the box. Watch Emily of the Doom 95 , if you want to see a young girl destroy you with the rise! Doug knows he can hang with anyone with her pitching.

I to am not a fan of the curve or screw balls, to easy to hang them and then you can kiss them good nite. Thats not say we never use them, just not often.
Your right about the rise, if you ever caught a true rise ball pitcher it jumps. Most pitches throw a ball up in the zone an call it a rise same with the drop down in the zone an call it a drop.

 

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You may not be a fan of the curve, but the worlds best pitchers (female) live on it. Tincher and Finch (two great ones) throw more rise than curve, but Cat, Hollowell Abbott and Fernandez throw tons of curves. It is by far Cats best pitch.

In working with Cat she will tell you that 90% of the time she throws her drop. She is able to spot the drop any where around the plate. Her other pitch is the curve ball as mentioned. Her view point is mastering the movement pitches. Good movement will create Ks on and off the plate.

 

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Cat's best pitch, IMHO, is her drop ball. It is just plain nasty. I don't think a pitcher needs more than 3 pitches: drop, change and rise. You can change the plane of the batter's vision with all three and they all can be thrown out of the zone for stikes. As long as the batter swings at them.

 

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In working with Cat.

Wow, can you tell us how you work with Cat? That's impressive stuff.

 

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Wow, can you tell us how you work with Cat? That's impressive stuff.

It's easy just go to her camp at Depaul, if your lucky she will sign a ball for you. If your good she will send an e-mail to you. My daughter got both.

 

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Agree that not all pitches are throw for stirkes. Show me a pitcher who can spot pitch(up, down an corners), can throw a strike anytime she wants and has a good change and I'll show you a pitcher.

holy cow bluelight; you read my mind!!!!!!

 

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Maybe the kids should come on here and tell us which pitches they have instead of all the daddys that watch from behind the fence. I keep reading...."I'm not a big fan of the curve"......well if your not a fan of your daughters curve or your pitcher on your teams curve......then it must not be very good. I had my dd read all the posts in this thread......she came out of her room, handed my computer back to me and just laughed. Need more kids that actually play on here.....not daddys.

 

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I think a pitcher that can put the ball (or close) to where she wants to, really only needs that pitch, although an offspeed pitch would be good. At 13, my dd is learning a new pitch (her third), because her pitching coach believes she's ready for it.

 

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My daughter's pitching coach will NOT teach her pitchers multiple pitches within one year. She prefers to only teach 1 pitch a year. Sometimes parents might insist on more but when it is left up to her, she will teach one at a time, once a year. She's a very successful pitching instructor and she has produced some phenomenal pitchers.

 

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Vertical movement is best for most pitchers to be successful. A rise ball has to rotate at least 21 - 22 times a second to be able to have good movement. Most pitchers can not throw this pitch because of that and the fact they lean forward beyond the center line of their body. A pitcher that can throw a curve with the same number of rotations as the rise will have tremendous movement and it should be a very successful pitch for her. Keep in mind to that most curves will drop at least slightly due to gravity. A true riseball pitcher will throw a riseball 90 + percent of the time and will usually have a curve and change for the strike out (off the plate) pitch.

 

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In working with Cat she will tell you that 90% of the time she throws her drop. She is able to spot the drop any where around the plate. Her other pitch is the curve ball as mentioned. Her view point is mastering the movement pitches. Good movement will create Ks on and off the plate.

I have watched Cat pitch many times on TV. Although her drop is impressive, the majority of her pitches end up on the outside corner or further and is breaking left to right.(could be she is throwing a drop curve, but it seems to stay at the knees.)

As for the curve, of DD`s well over 1000 "K`s" in high school, I would guess 800+ were curves. Some stayed on the knees, some were thrown well inside and broke in, some went up and left, some went down and left. Some were thrown at the middle and got them to chase it outside, but they were all curves. I would say her change up got the majority of the rest, with some drops and rises mixed in. She did not throw many fastballs since she only could throw it @ 61. That might work in high school, but it wont work in college.

Someone said they didn`t like the curve because if you hang it, it gets hammered, or something like that. Ever see a riseball that didnt go up enough? 4 bagger is a normal result.

 

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Learning and maturing pitches is not a linear progression. Most coaches will work on the fastball first and then quickly add a change-up. The drop follows because it works with gravity that helps the break and encourages the pitcher to keep trying. The speed has to get up and the spins have to increase for the screw, curves and their variations to be effective. The rise needs to have speed and spin and tends to be the last pitch taught. That does not mean that the kids aren't trying them out and seeing what all these pitches can do.

I do not understand why a coach would prevent a kid from 'working' on all these tools and even try them out in games. To restrict pitchers to only 3 pitches until those 3 are perfect does not make sense from any point of view. Each kid is different and how do you pick which will be her 3 go-to pitches without allowing her to learn them all. These go-to pitches will change over time and even from inning to inning. 'Perfection' is never achievable but 'effective' is. It's great to hit your spots AND throw your breaks AND have multiple tools. I think that all these skills need to mature at the same time.

To do otherwise would be like demanding perfect spelling before you teach them read. I would bet that although Cat throws mainly drops as a mature player that she has learned all the pitches known to the game and has selected what works best for her by trial and error.

 

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I do not understand why a coach would prevent a kid from 'working' on all these tools and even try them out in games. To restrict pitchers to only 3 pitches until those 3 are perfect does not make sense from any point of view. Each kid is different and how do you pick which will be her 3 go-to pitches without allowing her to learn them all. These go-to pitches will change over time and even from inning to inning. 'Perfection' is never achievable but 'effective' is. It's great to hit your spots AND throw your breaks AND have multiple tools. I think that all these skills need to mature at the same time.

To do otherwise would be like demanding perfect spelling before you teach them read. I would bet that although Cat throws mainly drops as a mature player that she has learned all the pitches known to the game and has selected what works best for her by trial and error.

Nobody says they can not work on different pitches. The point is how many pitches they should have mastery of for success. Game restrictions are a must if you want to win games. You can not relate it to spelling and reading like you did. A kid in first grade can sound out words to read them, but could not spell them correctly if given that word out loud. Reading and spelling are also done in a progression. The older you get the more you are able to do and with greater difficulty. If their go to pitch changes after every inning as you suggest or that they need 6 or 7 pitches to pick from, then they have not spent the time needed to get better. In my mind they would only be an average pitcher at best.

http://stacktv.stack.com/video.aspx?videoID=1737009789_124
The link Cat describes how drop is her go to pitch.

 

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Good post fairman. But I would add that every kid is different, and learns at a different pace. Some kids are overwhelmed if you throw too much on them at once, but as long as they grasp the principle, why not introduce them to new pitches?

...To do otherwise would be like demanding perfect spelling before you teach them read.

After reading some OFC posts, you get the idea that this WAS NOT the case here! :lmao:

AND - don't you just hate it when the rise doesn't rise? ;&

 

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In most high school games at 40 feet, a pitcher with good speed (58 +) should be fine with a fastball she can locate and a changeup. If the speed is not there, then I would think a couple of movement pitches would be necessary. DD is 16 and just learning the screwball as she learned about one new pitch per year from 12U to 16U. She said the curve and rise are her best strikeout pitches. Changeup is STILL a work in progress.

 

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Different; You are wrong in that we teach both reading and spelling at the same time. It makes no sense to teach one or the other until mastery is achieved in isolation. This is the same with pitching. Expecting a young pitcher to master a fastball before moving onto to a change is counter productive. When their arm speeds up or they develop hips they have to relearn the fastball and every other pitch. They must create a continuos learning environment, just like life.

Their go-to pitch does change and not because of them being an average pitcher. The umpire strike zone changes. The offensive team makes an adjustment at the plate. The wind changes straightening out the curve but increasing the break on the screw.

There are a thousand reasons to make certain in practice that a pitcher has options on the mound and has the confidence to throw those pitches. These dominate pitches do not spring fully developed and announce themselves. They are introduced in practice and worked on away form the game. They are tried in a game in a non-critical situations. As the pitch slowly grows in quality it shows up more and more in games and then in critical situations. There is simply no other way to learn a pitch and then make it a main horse than to try it out.

Sammy; You are right that each kid learns differently and at a different pace. It is also true that they wil lhave individual skills and their pitches will move differently. A 10U that is trying to throw her first curve in a game on a Sunday should be encouraged. Just because it wasn't perfect or got hit hard is no reason to not use it again and then again.

 

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Different; You are wrong in that we teach both reading and spelling at the same time. It makes no sense to teach one or the other until mastery is achieved in isolation. This is the same with pitching. Expecting a young pitcher to master a fastball before moving onto to a change is counter productive. When their arm speeds up or they develop hips they have to relearn the fastball and every other pitch. They must create a continuos learning environment, just like life.

Their go-to pitch does change and not because of them being an average pitcher. The umpire strike zone changes. The offensive team makes an adjustment at the plate. The wind changes straightening out the curve but increasing the break on the screw.

There are a thousand reasons to make certain in practice that a pitcher has options on the mound and has the confidence to throw those pitches. These dominate pitches do not spring fully developed and announce themselves. They are introduced in practice and worked on away form the game. They are tried in a game in a non-critical situations. As the pitch slowly grows in quality it shows up more and more in games and then in critical situations. There is simply no other way to learn a pitch and then make it a main horse than to try it out.

Sammy; You are right that each kid learns differently and at a different pace. It is also true that they wil lhave individual skills and their pitches will move differently. A 10U that is trying to throw her first curve in a game on a Sunday should be encouraged. Just because it wasn't perfect or got hit hard is no reason to not use it again and then again.

Last time I checked reading and spelling are taught together. The point I was trying to make was that usually kids can can read more words than they can spell. I am not sure I understand what you are saying about having to relearn a fastball and every other pitch. Unless a pitcher takes a huge amount of time off from one age until the next it is not that big of an undertaking to adjust to body growth. I agree that an umpire's strike zone will change and teams make adjustments, but as a pitcher you can adjust your go to pitch with out moving to a different pitch. If you are a hard thrower and the ump is not calling low and away, throw the fastball up and in. If your out pitch is the drop you can adjust to when that pitch begins to drop or on which part of the plate. Pitchers should develop different pitches in practice. One at a time. New pitchers should work fastball and change together. The problem with high school is you can not afford to experiment in games with pitches you have just spent a few weeks to work on. This was not a thread to say pitchers should only work on a 1 or 2 pitches during the season. The question is how many are needed in a game to give your team a chance to win.

 

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fairman
I understand what your saying, but as pitchers get older most pitchers will come too two or three pitches. Why, because that the ones they like best and they work on them more. If you talk to most coaches it's not that they don't work on them or throw them in games just not as much.
Just read some of the post 80% on curve, 90% on drop, it's because thats thier best pitch.
For instantance our varsity pitcher was a freshmen last year threw around 60mph she loves the rise so she works on it more and most of her 220+ strikouts were with that pitch, not to say we didn't throw or work on other pitches. This year she she at 63, next year hope to get her around 65(don't know if she can, room for improvement seams to gets smaller each year)
Are JV pitcher loves the drop and has a wicked backhand change, most of her strikout came that way. She only throws around 55 to 58 so its not fair to be calling riseballs she would get killed, thats not saying she dosen't work on it.