How Many Pitches Does a Pitcher Need?

[InSider]

The following is one poster's opinion, who chose to send it to me privately. They are aware and okay with me sharing.

This question is age dependent. A young pitcher ideally would be able to have some consistency in hitting locations with fastball, and be able to throw a change up without giving it away for strikes more often than not. If they have a movement pitch that is a bonus. By 14U I think they need a movement pitch.
It would be great if they develop another one. I personally disagree with the idea that they should have "all" the pitches. My own philosophy is that Major League pitchers do not have "all" the pitches. Being able to throw any pitch in your repertoire on any count is much more important.
Regarding which pitch, I still refer to baseball. MLB pitchers are able to be effective with different combinations it baffles me why people think teenage girls should be all be able to throw the same pitches.
It seems to me that 15+ years ago when my DD's began playing travel softball it was all about the strikeout. The evolution of the game seems to be toward, getting batters to hit a pitch they do not want.
Maybe my oldest just wasn't that great of a hitter LOL.

 

[lewam3]

The following is one poster's opinion, who chose to send it to me privately. They are aware and okay with me sharing.

This question is age dependent. A young pitcher ideally would be able to have some consistency in hitting locations with fastball, and be able to throw a change up without giving it away for strikes more often than not. If they have a movement pitch that is a bonus. By 14U I think they need a movement pitch.
It would be great if they develop another one. I personally disagree with the idea that they should have "all" the pitches. My own philosophy is that Major League pitchers do not have "all" the pitches. Being able to throw any pitch in your repertoire on any count is much more important.
Regarding which pitch, I still refer to baseball. MLB pitchers are able to be effective with different combinations it baffles me why people think teenage girls should be all be able to throw the same pitches.
It seems to me that 15+ years ago when my DD's began playing travel softball it was all about the strikeout. The evolution of the game seems to be toward, getting batters to hit a pitch they do not want.
Maybe my oldest just wasn't that great of a hitter LOL.

Good hitting teams (I mean really good hitting teams) will figure out a pitcher with just a few pitches in her repertoire, by the third inning. A good pitcher should really learn the basic 5, don't you think? you need a ball that basically moves from in the zone to out of the zone, preferably. center in(screw) center out (curve) center up (rise) center down (drop) and of course slower speed (change). A well placed fastball gets hit if its around the edges by the really good teams. Thats what I've observed, its just that, my opinion and observation.

 

[backstop09]

...So what would your ideal pitcher's arsenal look like?

Three pitches. Of course there are exceptions, but most girls who tell you they throw more than that are saying it because that's what daddy tells them and that's what daddy tells them because that's what the pitching coach tells daddy when daddy writes him a $60 check every other week.

Here's all that is needed: 1) A fastball that goes where it's called; 2) a changeup that is a true "grip" changeup and not just a slowing down of the arm. This needs to be a 10-15 mph decrease from the fastball and kept at the knees or below so it's not just a meatball that good hitters will crush; and 3) either a curveball or screwball that have at least a small amount of vertical movement. If a girl can work on these three pitches and throw them consistently, she'll be successful.

 

[CoachB25]

DD was only recruited by a small number of colleges to pitch. At their invite camps, they never asked her to throw a fastball. They were very high on her drop, rise and change. Many of the college coaches I talked to talked about pitchers either being "vertical" or "horizontal."

 

[brownsfan]

I guess my dd is Pinocchio then. She does have all of the pitches mentioned by lewam. However, she also started pitching at the age of 8. I guess when you start pitching factors in how many pitches you can learn to throw. DD started with FB at the age of 8, change 9, DB-10, SB-11, CB-12, RB-13. She spent a year on each pitch while enforcing the previous years and was not allowed to throw the new pitch in games until her pitching coach felt she was ready.

Great hitters/teams not only talk in the warm-up circle but in the dugout. They talk about the pitcher and what she is throwing. If you only have three pitches (in this example curve, drop, change), and the change is not working (getting 25% for strikes), they will foul off anything knowing not to respect the change-up, and drive a missed pitch. If the change-up is working, great hitters will wait and foul off knowing they she only has two movement pitches.

However, if a pitcher has more pitches; the better chance she has in getting the result she gets. DD studied a guide to what pitch to throw to what batter. It didn’t list only three pitches, but all of them. So it’s important to know how to pitch all of the pitches.

 

[FastBat]

At their invite camps, they never asked her to throw a fastball...

My dd's pitching coach was a previous college assistant coach, she would tell me this and I thought, no way. Of course, my dd was 8 and 9 years old. Boy, she should have bet me, because she has been right about all of it!

She also told me, which was mind boggling, most college pitchers only hit their spots 60% of the time. Unless you track that it would be hard to know.

 

[wannaplaysb]

Yes! Most camps ask you to throw your best pitch. And tell them the spot you will hit. They will ask you to throw others and ask about your "get it done" pitch. Usually they will show your dd about how to change their fav pitch to see how they respond to coaching. Might also ask about a combination...curveball... Rise ball... Curveball for example to see if they look the same from the rubber. At least that has been our experience.

 

[FastBat]

/\/\/\Thankful my child is 11! This mom isn't ready, I don't know about her!

 

[wannaplaysb]

/\/\/\Thankful my child is 11! This mom isn't ready, I don't know about her!

If she loves pitching... She will be! Enjoy the moments and don't worry about what she has and doesn't! Chaos happens when she is old enough to handle it!! And if she loves having the rock. She will find a place to throw it well!

 

[lewam3]

If she loves pitching... She will be! Enjoy the moments and don't worry about what she has and doesn't! Chaos happens when she is old enough to handle it!! And if she loves having the rock. She will find a place to throw it well!��

totally agree wanna. When DD had her first lesson, I was amazed that the instructor actually said that her older students throw to locations. I was happy that DD didn't throw the ball over the backstop. which she did- at least twice.

 

[wannaplaysb]

totally agree wanna. When DD had her first lesson, I was amazed that the instructor actually said that her older students throw to locations. I was happy that DD didn't throw the ball over the backstop. which she did- at least twice.

Mine broke a light...

 

[daboss]

Here's how I approach teaching a kid how to pitch;

Let's say we are working with a normal young lady and she is 10 years old. She's coming to me weekly starting in November and I end my winter sessions by March 1. She never misses her lesson which is normally 1 on 1. Keep in mind the average kid still is not cast in a mold. They differ in natural talent and desire. Everything is by design so they can pitch weekly during the spring and summer. They normally begin a school sport in August and take a break from pitching till November.

The first winter we work on mechanics to develop a fastball with as much control as we can get. Our goal is 70% strikes to balls. At some point we will begin to mix in the mechanics for a change up. The second year at 11yrs old, we refresh the fastball and begin to develop the change up----------possibly teaching a different change to find one she can develop and have use of by spring. I'll work in another pitch to keep things interesting but nothing is carved in stone. It really depends on the individual but most certainly will not be the screwball. The screwball will always be the last pitch due to it's distracting nature from all the other pitches. Introduce a screwball too early and that's all she'll be able to throw.

At age 12 we work on fastball hitting smaller zones, change up shooting for a 100% strike ratio, and whatever her 3rd pitch is. I introduce her to pitch 4 before spring. At 13 she will work on the 4 pitches taught plus pitch 5 is introduced. At 14 yrs old and the winter before her first season of high school she'll get the mechanics of the screwball and have a working knowledge of all 6 pitches. However; our goal at 14 yrs old is to have 3 working pitches. This should have her at a point of being effective in 14u and as a freshman pitcher in school.

Will any of them be able to throw all 6 on command? Most likely the answer is "no." Day by day, week by week, they will go in and out of phases that will have them have 3 functional pitches with the fastball as an anchor pitch and high strike ratio.

My goal is they have a working knowledge of all the pitches with their run from 14u to 18u being their primary years of their career. Everything else that happens is out of my hands. If school and travelball coaches don't allow them to use their pitching bank account it only stands to reason they won't develop their skills as well as they would if allowed some input each outing to convey to a coach "Hey, my curveball is spot on in warmups. You can call it any time today!" If more coaches would show some confidence in something else than a fastball they might win a few extra games!!!

The first winter

 

[cobb_of_fury]

"Why on earth would you EVER want to throw your fourth best pitch to a batter"
- Bill Hillhouse

"The best pitch to have is simply any pitch that gets the batter out or misses the bat completely! In reality, a pitcher needs 3 pitches only; rise, drop and change up. All three should have variable speeds and should be able to be thrown for strikes at any given time. Pitches to avoid are any kind that do not move up and down (i.e. fastball, curve, screwball). Many pitchers spend too much time concentrating on learning an arsenal of pitches rather than learning a few that will get any hitter out. The pitch should always be changing planes, not staying straight. If your curveball goes up or down as it curves, GREAT! If not, get rid of it! All it will be is an advantage for a hitter if it doesn’t go up or down. While curves and such seem to work at younger ages, you must remember to teach your pitcher what will help them win later on in their career, as well as right now. As your pitcher ages, so do the batters against her."
- Bill Hillhouse

 

[Fairman]

I think DaBoss is right on target.

These kids need to work on a variety of pitches and all of them during their entire career in FP. They cannot master one pitch, then master another and then a third like a shopping list. The problem with Da Boss's post is that you don't know which pitch might be her best pitch until each pitch has been given a fair chance. Even then sometimes in the bottom of the fourth inning her number one, old reliable, may desert her and she has to rely on her number four pitch which suddenly is unhitttable.

I can tell you that in college, my dd never intentionally threw a fastball for a strike but just for effect to setup the next pitch. IF she did throw it for strike, she had actually missed her spot. (We called those doubles) She threw a wide variety of spinning pitches and change-ups and those were mostly out of the zone intending to induce swings at a bad pitches.

Not to quibble with Mr. Hillhouse but sometimes her number four pitch is exactly the pitch she should throw to that particular batter in that particular situation.

 

[CoachB25]

"Why on earth would you EVER want to throw your fourth best pitch to a batter"
- Bill Hillhouse

"The best pitch to have is simply any pitch that gets the batter out or misses the bat completely! In reality, a pitcher needs 3 pitches only; rise, drop and change up. All three should have variable speeds and should be able to be thrown for strikes at any given time. Pitches to avoid are any kind that do not move up and down (i.e. fastball, curve, screwball). Many pitchers spend too much time concentrating on learning an arsenal of pitches rather than learning a few that will get any hitter out. The pitch should always be changing planes, not staying straight. If your curveball goes up or down as it curves, GREAT! If not, get rid of it! All it will be is an advantage for a hitter if it doesn’t go up or down. While curves and such seem to work at younger ages, you must remember to teach your pitcher what will help them win later on in their career, as well as right now. As your pitcher ages, so do the batters against her."
- Bill Hillhouse

That is why my dd only really threw 3 pitches in games. Bill is wise for his age!

 

[FastBat]

They normally begin a school sport in August and take a break from pitching till November.

Is it really normal to take August through November off?

My dd never has, at least the last 3 years, I make her push through. I like to have her continue working outside, while the weather is still nice. But I find the month of December is extremely hard to fit pitching in with the holidays. So she does take time away from pitching then.

 

[crystlemc]

That is why my dd only really threw 3 pitches in games. Bill is wise for his age!

If you can get past his love of Netflix and his line "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful", he's alright...lol.

In all sincerity, he taught my DD that she really only needed a drop, change, and rise. And that if you can use your fingers to make the ball move for little variations of those three, then you're golden. I'll take his word for it, since he has competed at the highest levels of the men's game.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

If you can get past his love of Netflix and his line "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful", he's alright...lol.

In all sincerity, he taught my DD that she really only needed a drop, change, and rise. And that if you can use your fingers to make the ball move for little variations of those three, then you're golden. I'll take his word for it, since he has competed at the highest levels of the men's game.

I would agree - He gave my DD a great foundation to build on - and yes I trust his wisdom on pitching, he has played on a higher level than any instructor I've met.

PS - We stopped in Erie last week on our way to NY and my DD had a quick lesson with him, He's doing well after some health setbacks, Great guy! He went out of his way to make time for my daughter. and he cleaned up a couple of her bad habits that had crept in since we saw him last
You folks in Alliance don't know how lucky you are to still have him coming in on a regular basis. We miss him down here in Pittsburgh. Though my DD is happy with her current instructor there will never be another Bill.

 

[daboss]

Is it really normal to take August through November off?

My dd never has, at least the last 3 years, I make her push through. I like to have her continue working outside, while the weather is still nice. But I find the month of December is extremely hard to fit pitching in with the holidays. So she does take time away from pitching then.

I know many go year round but in my opinion some time off is not only healthy but can help in the learning curve as well. I have discussed this issue with many doctors and therapists and ALL agreed the time off for a few months for growing kids is a good idea for muscle growth and development. You need to R&R those muscle groups from the grind of pitching. Playing another sport, even Volleyball, will allow those arm and shoulder muscles to rejuvenate. It's the daily grind of the repetitious motion that can stalemate development.

The other reason is to mentally take a break. Girls need time to digest all the information and log it away. They may not be throwing but they will process things. This will surface later when they start pitching again. They get hungry again. When November comes around they get anxious to try what they've been processing to see if it will work. Keep them wanting will pay off in the long run and help to avoid the burnout factor so many face before their prime. Even a good parent takes a break from their job at times to R&R and they have the discipline as adults that young minds haven't mastered yet. Kids need this down time for so many reasons and need it in more than a weekend. They need quality shut down time, then come back with a new spirit.