2010 Ohio Stingrays Tournament 10u

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WE LOVE OUR BOBBY SUGAR!!!! Our team has the best parents!!!!:yahoo:

Kinda reminded me of Ric Flair and "WOOO!"

 

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Hey, interesting thing happened on Saturday evening I'd like your thoughts on...

Dan, you have this right. When the catcher leaves the catcher's box the batter is allowed to exit the batter's box. While batter's are required to keep one foot in the box throughout their at-bat, there is a long list of exceptions. In fact, the list is so long that essentially the only time the batter really has to keep one foot in is on a cleanly caught pitch that the batter didn't swing at!

The rule is designed to prevent the batter from delaying the game. When the catcher leaves the catcher's box, she is delaying the game, not the batter. This is one rule that we are taught to apply only if the batter is causing a delay and then only after giving a warning. In short, we are taught to not be overzealous in enforcing this and to apply the penalty (a strike charged to the batter) only as a last resort.

There really isn't much you could do other than calmly state your case to the umpire, hope that the light bulb goes off for him and he realizes that he has it wrong- which brings me to a major pet peeve about how most touraments handle an umpire misapplying a playing rule.

I don't in any way mean to single out the Stingrays tournament, as most tournaments come up with their own rules to limit protests, but their rule regarding protests was one of the most restrictive I've ever seen. To file a protest- which is a right afforded to teams under the standard playing rules- you had to pony up 150 bucks ( ) and your money was not returned- even if you won the protest!

Their tournament rules lumped this under some sort of "sportsmanship" clause. But a true protest, as defined in the standard ASA playing rules, has nothing at all to do with sportsmanship. An official protest can be filed without any extended argument, heated debate or long delay in the game. All a coach has to do is ask the umpire which rule he was applying and, if the umpire has it wrong, all the he has to do is say, "I would like to file a protest". There's no arguing involved and, if the umpire had it wrong the call, upon review the call can be corrected.

It sounds like the umpire's call in your case didn't have any real impact on the game- but it could! Suppose you have the winning run at third, there are two outs, your batter has two strikes and that's when the umpire decides to enforce this "phantom" rule. He charges your batter with a penalty strike, ending your rally and possibly costing you the game.

With the protest rules that most tournaments come up with, you are forced to put up cash to file your protest. Most give your money back if you win the protest. And, if you won the protest, that means that the umpire had it wrong! If this scenario played out during the Stingrays tourney, you would be out $150, no matter if you won the protest or not.

That just strikes me as wrong. You're already paying the umpires your hard-earned cash (entry fees) to officiate your games. Why should you have to pay extra to have the right rules enforced!

When you throw the standard protest rules out the window (which, by the way, DO NOT require any sort of fee to be paid) you can actually be encouraging arguments. If the umpire misapplies a playing rule, the offended team doesn't really have any other recourse.

Okay...I'll climb down off my soapbox...and say that, other than their protest rule, all my experiences with the Stingrays tournaments have been as close to "softball perfection" as you can get. They obviously care about what they're doing and it shows. We can only wish that every tournament was run as well as this one!

 

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hey don great job this weekend . you have a class act team ,and we loved playing you in two great games. good luck the rest of the year from the dragons family.

 

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That was a fun game to work (I was the third base umpire in the championship game).

Got a question Bretman ...

In one of our games the HP ump tells us at the coin toss that the girls need to be respectful and not cheer during the pitch. At least that is how I heard it. He mentioned that cheers directed to the pitcher or a player would not be allowed.. all well and good of course. So when the game started he raises his hand to my bench (we hit first and the girls were 'cheering') and waves them to be quiet.

He basically did not allow any cheering from the girls from the moment the pitcher got her sign until the pitch was over. I was blown away - that is such a big part of the fun for the kids to cheer their team mate/batter (the right way of course). Even more interesting was when Kepples 10u team came and sat on the hill beside first base with our parents he told them they could not cheer 'during' the pitch. Have you ever seen that and can an umpire basically require quiet from the time the pitcher gets the sign until the pitch is delivered?

 

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I don't mind the cheering. That seems to be part of the game. It is when girls scream at the top of their lungs that is annoying and should be disallowed.

 

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There was a lot of strange "umpiring " going on there this weekend, we had 3 pitches that got away from the catcher and went out of play in one game where the runner at second was allowed to score.

There was the older gentelman with the mattress in front of him that called a fair ball that hit me in the coaches box while i was standing on the out of play line, then called me for interference and called our runner at second out on the play.

And then the guy who didnt give us a call the whole championship game that strangely looked alot like the third base coach from the Hawks :lmao::lmao::lmao:, C'mon Dan that was his brother wasn't it? JK, great game again HAWKS!!!!

 

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I don't mind the cheering. That seems to be part of the game. It is when girls scream at the top of their lungs that is annoying and should be disallowed.

It disappears or dissapates quite a lot at the 13U-14U level. :yahoo:

 

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I don't mind the cheering. That seems to be part of the game. It is when girls scream at the top of their lungs that is annoying and should be disallowed.

Right .. cheering is not screaming is what we tell our girls .. it should be sync'd and a team effort to encourage our players... I hate it when rather than enforcing a rule on the offender, the umpire or teacher (whatever) just punishes everyone instead. Frankly it has been a long time since I have seen any team abuse the cheering - even at 12u...

 

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Got a question Bretman ...

In one of our games the HP ump tells us at the coin toss that the girls need to be respectful and not cheer during the pitch. At least that is how I heard it. He mentioned that cheers directed to the pitcher or a player would not be allowed.. all well and good of course. So when the game started he raises his hand to my bench (we hit first and the girls were 'cheering') and waves them to be quiet.

He basically did not allow any cheering from the girls from the moment the pitcher got her sign until the pitch was over. I was blown away - that is such a big part of the fun for the kids to cheer their team mate/batter (the right way of course). Even more interesting was when Kepples 10u team came and sat on the hill beside first base with our parents he told them they could not cheer 'during' the pitch. Have you ever seen that and can an umpire basically require quiet from the time the pitcher gets the sign until the pitch is delivered?

So we aren't the only ones then. I shave my head by choice. Maybe I need to stop, because my rubbing may just be a better solution.

 

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Got a question Bretman ...

In one of our games the HP ump tells us at the coin toss that the girls need to be respectful and not cheer during the pitch. At least that is how I heard it. He mentioned that cheers directed to the pitcher or a player would not be allowed.. all well and good of course. So when the game started he raises his hand to my bench (we hit first and the girls were 'cheering') and waves them to be quiet.

He basically did not allow any cheering from the girls from the moment the pitcher got her sign until the pitch was over. I was blown away - that is such a big part of the fun for the kids to cheer their team mate/batter (the right way of course). Even more interesting was when Kepples 10u team came and sat on the hill beside first base with our parents he told them they could not cheer 'during' the pitch. Have you ever seen that and can an umpire basically require quiet from the time the pitcher gets the sign until the pitch is delivered?

We had one of our home plate umpires stop our the game and walk down to me in the first base box and warned us about cheering during the other teams pitcher pitching. We also had our pitcher intentionally walked without having the pitcher throw a pitch to walk her, we had base runners and I thought that took away from giving them a chance to advance or even score on passed balls or wild pitches. I understood why she was intentionally walked but at least should have had to throw 4 pitches to walk her, especially with 2 base runners.

 

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We had a problem with cheering this weekend too. They were basically cheering for our pitcher to throw a ball. The ump never said a word. I think that is so disrespectfull. We also had an instance of the other team's parents yell out our pitches to their batter.

 

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On the cheering...that is what I would call "OOO"...Overly Officious Officiating.

There isn't any rule that says teams can't cheer or that they can only cheer at certain times. If there was some sort of coordinated effort to time a cheer or a scream with a pitcher's release, designed for the sole purpose of distracting her, or if the cheers were personal jeers or insults then an umpire might say something. That could fall under the unsportsmanlike conduct rules.

Since it isn't a rule, there obviously isn't anything to be warning anyone about. Let 'em cheer! Only worry about it if it gets into the realm of unsportsmanlike conduct as described above- which is a rare and unusual case.

Being around umpires a long time, you find that many will have their own ideas about which rules to be sticklers about, like jewelry, or tucking in shirts, or some other technical rule that really doesn't have much bearing on the game. It's one thing if it's an actual rule in the rule book, but quite frustrating when it's just, like...imaginary stuff with no basis in the rules.

Some of this stuff, I have no idea where they even come up with it. It's not in the rule book and it's definitely not something that is being taught in umpire classes or clinics.

In any given game there are enough opportunities for an umpire to get himself in hot water as it is. Why go looking for trouble that isn't there to begin with?

On issuing an automatic walk...the rules require pitches to be thrown. There are no automatic walks in any softball rule set I'm familiar with. Allowing a base-on-balls to be issued without throwing a pitch is an obvious misinterpretation of the rules and gives a team an advantage not intended by the rules. That would be a good one to protest...if it didn't cost you 150 bucks!

Some of the other points of confusion I ran across this weekend were little things that really have little bearing on the game, but were laid out in the tournament rules.

The tournament rules stated that prior to the game the home team would be determined by the ever-popular "ball roll" to the pitcher's plate. Okay, it's a silly rule, but a rule nevertheless. I had some umpires that absolutely refused to do the "ball roll" and insisted on using a coin flip. And others insisted that when rolling the balls they had to be rolled at the same time. Why?

The tourney rules stated that the pitchers got three warm-up pitches in the first inning, then ONE between each subsequent inning. Yet I had umpires telling teams they had one, three or five the whole game (standard ASA rules allow for five) and another that just seemed to let them throw as many as they wanted.

The non-standard rule about "batting the entire line-up" seemed to cause a lot of confusion for coaches and umpires alike. I heard about a half-dozen different versions of who could be a courtesy runner, how you could use a DP or FLEX or how substitutions should be handled. And, I heard a lot of the old, "But the umpire at the last game told us we could (fill in the blank)", when it came to covering these rulings.

 

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Hey Dan, the umpire you call pony tail.....we think he is really Bob Seger. I swear one time I am going to ask him to sing me a seger song.

 

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Doug,

In that same game, the HP umpire came and told me to hurry up my conversation with the base ump when discussing that interference call (or non-call, I should say). Actually, he told us both to hurry up and finish the discussion. I've never seen one umpire tell the other they need to hurry up and finish a discussion about a call. We had talked for what, maybe 30 seconds?

Of course, this same umpire was telling every batter to hurry up and get the sign, and the catcher to hurry up and give the sign. Neither team was being slow going about their business.

 

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I think it was a great tournament. Well ran and for the most part on time despite the rain on friday. To the stingray families/organization who put on this event I'd just like to say you are all first class. If I lived down in central ohio this would be an organization I would want to join. Friendly faces, good communication, great facilities,and the ability to put on a first class tournament--- these are always high on any coach's list when mapping out a season schedule. We'll be back!

TheeeOhio Staaaa......errrrrr............... ICE 10u (lol) We love playing on Ohio State University soil!

 

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Guy with the pony tail called a good game behind the plate when we had him.

 

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Guy with the pony tail called a good game behind the plate when we had him.

Don,

I didn't say he called a bad game. Just that he didn't know the rule he was trying to enforce, and was rather unfriendly about it.

You guys have a great team, congrats again!

/Dan

 

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We had one of our home plate umpires stop our the game and walk down to me in the first base box and warned us about cheering during the other teams pitcher pitching. We also had our pitcher intentionally walked without having the pitcher throw a pitch to walk her, we had base runners and I thought that took away from giving them a chance to advance or even score on passed balls or wild pitches. I understood why she was intentionally walked but at least should have had to throw 4 pitches to walk her, especially with 2 base runners.

I saw that on Saturday and, like you, wondered the exact same thing...Of course, I haven't bothered to look up the rule for USSSA regarding intentional walks, but I am almost 100% sure that ASA requires four pitches be thrown to complete the intentional walk.

 

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seems like these guys (&gals?) have their own agenda when they umpire a game. Their own little pet peave (spelling?) rule they choose to tell you about & enforce,,,, one that in their own mind if they don't enforce the softball gods will seek revenge when judgement day comes,,, a rule they think is critical to the survival of softball as they know it. not just at stingrays but everywhere.

the man who strapped on the mattress and called balls and strikes behind the plate was over the top.... gave me a flashback for a minute. he was enjoying what he was doing on a sunday afternoon even though some disagreed with how he saw things.

great game dan we'll see ya this weekend.

D

 

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I would like to personally thank all of the 10u teams who participated. I know the "showcase" part of our tournament is really for the older age groups but it was great to have such talented and well coached teams playing in the 10u division. It seems like in many tournaments our age group is some what forgotten when it comes to communication, field prep, ect. But we work really hard to make sure these girls get the same experience as the ones the college coaches came to see.

For those of you moving up, please let your organization's coaches for next year know about our tournament for next year. The application process starts a little earlier than most. For those of you staying at 10U we hope to see you next year.

Congrats to Don and his Ice squad for the win in the championship and congrats to all who were there matching up their teams with some of the best competition you could find!! Iron sharpens Iron!