Absolutely Classless

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sideliner, good post.

During the season, the releasing coach must still sign the release form to make it legal. ?This situation should be explained at the very first team/parent meeting and how releases will be handled/allowed. ?This tends to stem the tendancy to go see the greener side of the fence after the season has started.

Harsh, yes it is. ?Necessary, yes. ?Am I cold-hearted, no. I do believe that there are circumstances which any coach would have no problem giving a release but that is another thread. ?But the above mentioned statement will help deal with this topic/thread.

 

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We talk about the parents "outing" the organization, well, the person in question has taken it upon himself to get the story straight.

Thanks Stingrays10u for your post. ?Now lets all learn from this and move on.

There were some good thoughts brought up in this thread so maybe we'll get smarter at tryouts this summer/fall and incorporate some of them.

 

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If I were to put a post on "OFC" that the Worth-Ohio Wave would be interested in a Very Fast 16U Utility Player to finish the season with us and play in the World Series and a girl quit her team to come over to mine would you consider this bad on my part?
(I am being serious). ????

 

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Even if a coach/team is named, it's still hearsay. Will you immediately take the word of the the reporting parent without even a response from the accused? If the stories conflict, how do you know who to believe? There are too many grudges out there to make it as cut and dried as you say.

Is there anything in the tournament agreement that allows you to "quietly" kick a team out because of something someone told you their coach did, something which is not against the law or against the rules of the sanctioning body of your tournament? Though I'm certainly not in favor of some recruiting tactics that are used, what you're describing sounds like a slippery slope

 

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WAVE16:

To me, there is a difference between directly approaching a family and asking them to leave their current team now, and posting a need for an additional player.

That doesn't mean you don't have an obligation to keep your dealings completely honest. The first question I would ask the girl (or parent) is if they are currently on another team's roster. If the answer is yes, then I would say that you could not talk to them further until their current coach called you and gave you permission to talk to them.

This puts the responsibility back on the family to deal with their current team first, as noted in some posts above. The current team would have to be willing to provide a release to the new team, and most sanctioning organizations only allow one such move in a year, so it is something that can not be done lightly.

WAVE16's danger is that a girl would join his team without getting the appropriate releases, and then a roster conflict would come up when attempting to register that player for a tournament or World Series. Then the team and coach could also face potential sanctions.

If the coach calls you back, you have the best of both worlds. You are dealing honestly with a peer, and you now have a chance to understand what might motivate that family to change teams in mid-season.

Now everyone is dealing above-board, and whatever happens will happen.

 

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;D
Sideliner, you make excellent points, and ones that a successful organization should follow.
Speaking of which, my DD has, in the past, been approached by other organizations, mid-season, who were interested in what she could add to their team. Yes, she was currently already on a travel team, but as a parent, I did not take offense to thier inquiries. Truly, what a compliment to your DD and her abilities! It's not every day or every player that gets looked at in such a postive light. Come on parents! Allow yourselves to be proud for a moment and put the nasty thoughts aside...for a moment. Yes, I agree that if a coach were to yield his/her attention to the opposing team for recruiting purposes DURING a game, I would be disappointed at his/her misdirected attention. BUT, before, after, in-between, shoot, if the player was impressive, why not invite her to the following season's tryouts? Again, quite a compliment. As a coach of that stellar player, instead of becoming irrate or possibly misinterrupting true intentions, relish the fact that you are blessed to have her on YOUR team this year!
I must add that I would not coach or allow my DD to play for ANY ORGANIZATION that attempts to 'persuade' or 'trade-up' their players mid-season. Regardless of their winning reputation. But receiving a business card from an opposing coach and being invited to their tryouts for the following season, is NOT something to raise a stink about! My DD PROUDLY plays for the 10u CENTRAL OHIO STINGRAYS. She played for another travel team for two years prior to this and this is her first year w/ the Stingray organization. Some of you OFC members know our family, and know that what I have said above is true of our views and that we wouldn't play for a 'stealing', 'trade-up' mid-season team. The Central Ohio Stingrays, the 10u group in particular, and their coaching staff are one of the classiest organizations we have had the pleasure of knowing! Our team is currently full and in need of not other players. The coach that invited this player's parents to our tryouts was doing just that....looking into the following year, as I hope all teams do.
Good luck to all of you this year!! We look forward to more SOFTBALL!!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D

 

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Eloquently stated Coop24!

;D

For those of us that do know this family, they feel very strongly about the above message and stand proud behind their beliefs!

 

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I have been approached by players and parents from some very good organizations wanting to know if I need players because they are ready to jump ship. What do you do in that situation? If they approach ME then I feel I have the right to tell them my team status. If they are not happy with their team then jumping ship isn't my fault at all as long as they came to me and I didn't approach them in any way.

 

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WAVE16

Being approached by parents and players wanting to talk to you about "jumping ship" isn't your fault, and obviously you did not instigate the contact.

However, if you don't get permission to talk to that player's family from their current organization first, I think you are getting into the gray area of poaching, even though it is passive.

Turn the tables around. If you had a family that was so unhappy that they wanted to leave, would you want the chance to at least address their unhappiness?

Would you have to weigh the impact on the total team of releasing that player? What if you were already down to 10 players because of injury, and this would take you to 9 if the girl leaves?

I know you can't stop someone from quitting, but if there are things that can be worked out, wouldn't you be willing to try?

In the final measure, I don't think that there are many coaches that would deny a player a release if they were miserable. However, just because your team is living through a 4-win season doesn't give someone the right to go to a team that will win more games. Joining a team is a commitment, period. The season is short, and they can make a different decision in August.


On a different topic, the whole COOP family is a class act. Our daughters were lucky enough to play together on one team, and even though they are now in different age groups and with different organizations, we still try to catch up when we are at the same tournament.

Keep pitching, girls!

 

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Did anyone see the 10u stingray catcher crush the grandslam in the championship game at Westerville ?

She also caught 5 games this weekend and was as tough as they come .

This young lady catches three girls week after week ,...that most 10u catchers could not handle .


I don't think their trying to steal your catcher ,......looking for a few possibillities for next season ,...maybe.


I think I'll rename this thread ,....Absolutely Classless Pointless Drama .

 

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Maybe the coaches of some of these elite organizations should learn to coach better instead of becoming better recruiters. If you are looking for players to help you next year, does that mean you are unhappy with what you already have and are ready to discard them at the end of the season? Over the last couple years we have had coaches approach our players and parents after playing us and try to recruit. Tired of the community travel teams developing players only to have recruiters come in and try to snatch them. Glad to say 99% of our girls stay put.

 

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Sideliner:

I have to dis-agree on this one. If one of my players is unhappy on my team and wants to leave then I want her to go ASAP. I have no room for a cancer on the team. If a player isn't happy they won't give 100% anyway. My players are not under contract, they don't get paid, so there parents don't have to check with me about anything involving leaving.

 

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Our team was a victim of the "elite" team picking off our catcher during a 6 on 6 indoor league game this winter. I don't understand this behavior at all. The coaches of the other elite team have to realize the amount of effort your organization has put in to have try outs and put together a team. Then to entice a critical position player off one team for their benefit is something I just never would think of doing. These elite teams have their own tryouts and web sites, if the girl didn't show up at their tryout or contact them for a tryout through the web site then they should not recruit during a game. I agree with Lionsfastpitch coaching a girl from U10 with clinics, winter 6 on 6 and indoor workouts for several years and then have her picked off by another team makes you understand how most of the major league GMs feel about the Yankees.

 

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I find it comical that this happens at the 10U age level. ? I would think that coaches, ? especially in elite type organizations would be working to develope the talent they have chosen at their own tryouts. ? If they have coached for long they are well aware that at this age the best players may turn out very average and the worst players may blossom into stars. ?Surely at 10U they aren't just trying to pad their win/loss record by picking up players who are ahead of the physicall development curve.

 

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LOL!!!!

Daddy coaches everywhere want to find the best players for their DD's team and the Stingrays' Daddies are no different; hence, the last minute exit last August by Daddy G and a chunk of his team! ?What you might consider classless were those "cold fish" t-shirts Daddy G's team wore the first time they played the new Stingrays 16U team.

 

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Sounds like Columbus is a busy city. Maybe we need to be a little less personal. Not a moderator just a friendly thought.

 

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Lionsfastpitch

I don't think that the coaches are necessarily "unhappy" with what they've got now, but maybe some of the girls will have to move up next year, and they are looking for players for next year. I personally think that the "recruiting" could wait until closer to try outs, but that's just me. ?Also, the so-called "elite" teams post their try-outs everywhere, so I doubt that anyone looking to play more competitive ball will have a hard time finding the try outs.

This thread comes up all the time, and the same things get said all the time. ?Some of the city teams always get mad when the "elite" teams try to recruit their players. ?I think it's a great refelction on you, as a coach, that these elite teams want your players- obviously you are doing something right!

My dd played for an "elite" team last year and was approached by a coach from another "elite" team in the middle of a tournament, not the game, and asked her to come play for him. That was at 10u. ?We thought it was a bit much, being the first tournament of the season, but I figured, whatever. ?Our coach was ticked off at that other coach, but we had committed to his team and we stuck to it. ?We didn't win that many games, and the other team won all theirs, but our dd said she felt that it was a committment that she wouldn't feel good about breaking. ?We were very proud of her for not wanting to "hop" on another team just because they were a better , or a least a more winning team.

I understand how you would be angry, though. I can see both sides of it.

 

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It's a "marketplace" for goodness sakes, and tournaments are a major watering hole, people observe, people meet, and people talk. It would not bother me to have someone approach about playing for them the next year or coming to their try-outs, but I would not leave mid-season during a commitment unless there were extenuating circumstances, and I know my dd is like that also. Loyalty & commitment are VERY important, but, so is reaching potential if the desire is there. In the end, be more concerned with the quality of the product and experience that you offer, and there will be fewer worries. Remember, the girls factor the team and personal experience MUCH higher in the equation than boys do. Lastly, we were at a tournament just recently where our team was approached by individuals asking about try-outs who were with other teams, cuts both ways, it's a marketplace and a showcase of sorts, each week. Don't worry, be happy - and confident that you are offering a quality and rewarding experience, or else make the changes to git-r-dun, and therefore "up" the attractiveness. ?

 

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IMHO, I believe that ANY coach, from an "elite" organization or not, who SHAMELESSLYtries to recruit another teams player is showing why he or she is really coaching a team. If your ONLY motivation is to litter your wall with trophies, and show everybody what a great coach you are, I understand. BUT I still say your time can be better spent COACHING the girls that you actually picked, that actually showed up at your tryout, and who actually deserve your loyalty in return for theirs.

 

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Happens all the time and you will never stop it. Dont care what the rules are or your feelings. The coaches who do this and the parents who turn their heads to it dont care either.

The reason.

Its all about winning.

Below is a post I recently put out on another web board on this issue. Which is really the cause of the problem your discussing right now.


Re: Is it all about winning?
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I just had this discussion with a 10U select coach here in town.

I currently provide lessons to one of his players in both hitting and pitching. She is currently converting from a linear hitter to a rotational hitter. It has been a struggle for her and she is not making contact with the ball. She will and when she does she will be a better player for it.

The conversation went along the lines of something like this. I asked the magic question. Which anyone who coach's has to consider. Are you more interested in winning than in developing your players for their future?

He goes home and sends me an email back saying it was not a fair question. My response back was it is the toughest decision you have to make as a coach. Its not about being fair.

Winning at every level and Development are two totally different issues and are in my opinion exclusive of each other. BUT one will lead to the other IN TIME.

That to me is the problem. It also causes this type of discussion.

Its the I want it all and I want it now approach by both coaches and parents. Its my kid and I want them to think they are winners. See they are on a winning team. I can beat my chest like Tarzan as a coach. I have a winning team. I know what I am doing and my record proves it.

When little Suzie gets to 16-18 U she still has bad mechanics with hitting, throwing, and pitching. Which every college coach who knows anything will see. Then walk away. They dont have time to spend correcting those problems. Because they ARE ABOUT WINNING.

As a former coach and now instructor it is about development. Do not loose sight of that on this road.

__________________________________________________

At 10 U how do you project player potential? Most of it is based on athletic ability. Not on true softball skill. They are just scratching the surface at this age. Select or Rec.

I want the coach who will do the best job of development. That should be your criteria as a parent if you have the best interest of your daughter at heart.

Elliott.