Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Any comments?

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Was watching a SEC game the other day and this came up in conversation. Michelle Smith commented that with the bat technology of today and the speeds that some of these pitchers are hitting that it would only be a matter of time before you start seeing college players wearing them and if they hadn't moved the mound back to 43', you would already see them. I liked it !

Gopher, me too. Seems like I tune in more to hear what Smith or Mendozza are saying, as they give really great commentary on the finer parts of this game. The broadcasters are often asking them questions as if they are conducting a clinic from the booth. FUNNY!

 

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You cannot legislate a cure for ignorance. Each person must willingly choose to educate themselves about life's hazards. Then - they must CHOOSE what is right for them. For example, by now everyone knows the hazards of smoking, and how second-hand smoke harms their children, but I STILL see parents puffing away behind the backstop at ballgames!!

Even so - If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
- Neil Peart

 

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You are absoluty corect in saying it is each individual's decision on weither to wear one or not but I am seeing several travel teams/coaches saying they are making it a requirement to wear to play. If you don't wear one, you cannot play. I am on this side... I want to see all our pitchers wearing one. However, when you have college coaches saying "how long are you going to wear that......", some parents/players are gonna second guess wearing them. If/when this happens, is your team prepared to lose a stud pitcher for not wearing one or do you in return change your teams policy's to.... they can wear them if they want????

If any of my pitchers and their parents decided they didn't want to wear one, who am I to say they have to or your off the team. I would absolutly HATE to see any of my pitcher make the decision not to wear one but I would also absolutly HATE to see one of them leave because I try to get them to wear one.

I for one would vote to make it madatory for all pitchers to wear a defensive face mask. I hope these college coaches will come around before something bad happens...... How may people would rather have to pay money for something like this instead of an ACE ceritfication. IMO, seems to me that someone has some mixed priorities.........

 

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We played at team this past weekend that had the pitcher and MIDDLE infielders wearing them and NOT the corners. I almost told the coach in the dugout " We're not bunting here. " when he pulled the corners in. I would hate to see a player get hurt over a coach's hunch.

 

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From Mr. Liniluna,

This issue of masks keeps arising on OFC and I doubt that minds are changed in these endless discussions. My observation has been that players' skills are not improved by wearing masks and flinching does not change when wearing a mask so a mask does nothing to improve a player's skill. That is what college coaches see and why they avoid these players .. they tend to be difficult to coach. The problems, as everyone seems to recognize, are more responsive bats, players being made or wanting to play beyond their capabilities (14 year olds should not be playing 30 feet from the plate), and poor skills development. The response from some seems to be not to fix the problems but put a bandaid (mask) on it. Sports involves risk and my athletic daughter has suffered a serious injury and took a long time to get past it ... but she did and still avoids wearing a mask ... still, there's always cheer leading for the boys teams as a safer alternative.

The obvious elephant in the room is the "DD" fetish ... maybe we should start considering our athletes more and our "DD's" less;Their skill development more and their pretty faces less.

Finally, the presumption that college coaches are ignorant or unaware of sports injuries because they disagree with your perspective about protecting your "DD" seems a bit self righteous. In my experiences with college coaches, their knowledge of the game is well beyond any travel team coaches that I have met. These college coaches are continuously dealing with their player's injuries and are very knowledgeable about injuries, their treatment and skills development to avoid them. You assume a disagreement to be due to someone else's ignorance (but not yours) ?? Really?

 

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I agree that a parent has the right to make their own decisions about their children-however, in my profession I do my best to make sure they have the information necessary to make an informed choice. I recognize they might not always follow my recommendations. They not be aware of the potentially serious consequences to the choices they are making especially if the source of their information isn't providing risks and benefits.

The emergency room and the specialists will still provide the best care they can, but would prefer to prevent injuries rather than treat them.
And yes, I'm also aware you can get hurt in a car or crossing the street or bouncing on a trampoline but that doesn't stop me from talking about safety with my patients..it might make a difference to one of those kids someday.

 

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Maybe instead of masks we can go to wooden bats

In a 3 week perios last season I saw a 10u playing third (even with the bag) take a line drive that broke her orbital bone and nose. A 12u pitcher take one right to the cheek, and a pitcher from the Wave's 12U or 14U take one straight to the face. The only one wearing a mask was the wave player and she was the only one not to leave the field to go to the emergency room although she was removed from the game.

I say keep them safe as long as we can!

 

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From Mr. Liniluna,

You assume a disagreement to be due to someone else's ignorance (but not yours) ?? Really?

Yep. I do. That's why I take the time to talk about with parents. I acknowledge a parents right to make decisions regarding their children but want to make sure they understand when I make recommendations I have gathered information from both sides to formulate my recommendations.

I am ignorant about many things and will be the first to admit it--especially mechanical issues, construction to name a few.... but childrens health is one area I am not ignorant.

I recently attended a sports medicine conference on traumatic brain injuries. One of the points made at the conference was "most parents sign their kids up for sports to have fun, some to play on competitive teams-but no parent signs their kids up to play and suffer a serious injury. If we can prevent injuries and keep the kids in the game..that's our job.

Like I said earlier the emergency department and the specialists will still give the kids their best care regardless of the face mask, but would prefer that the child wasn't hurt and didn't suffer.

 

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Liniluna did bring up a point. Why is it that so many people are more than willing to go out and spend $300+ on a weapon for your daughter (a high tech bat), then expect all the other "kiddies" to protect themselves? What's wrong with THAT picture?

It's like giving your 16 year old son an 800 HP street rod, then telling everyone else to get off the road so he can have some fun!

Why not admit where the REAL problem is? I think looking in the mirror would be a good start, and if you're REALLY serious about safety in the game, don't support equipment manufacturers that have NO REGARD for your daughter's safety. Fix the bats and balls (the ROOT), and there will be NO NEED for fielder's masks!

 

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How about we move the bases back 10 feet, then maybe the first and third basemen will not have to play on top of the plate. I have always thought it was kind of funny how the 10u players have the same length bases as the Olympians. Of course, this will not protect the pitchers.

 

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Yep. I do. That's why I take the time to talk about with parents.

If disagreements are due to another's ignorance and not yours, why the need to talk with anyone? You seem to know it all. Does the word sanctimonious mean something to you?

So**er players do not wear prophylactic knee braces despite the incidence of ACL injuries. Cheer teams do not wear neck braces despite the incidence of neck injuries (at higher rates than softball injuries). It's about the face and our DD's being pretty, not about a realistic appraisal of risk.

The problem is a statistically rare possibility of a serious injury caused by advanced technology in balls and bats and girls playing beyond their means. This is fixable. Limit certain technologies for certain levels of athletic attainment or age. Prohibit certain age groups from playing too close to the plate. By doing this, athletes develop skills slowly, with some quality assurance and can play the game without protective armor that serves to mask (sorry) poor skill development.

Regarding coaches recruiting; there are limits in resources in female athletics? this is not SEC football with unlimited funds. Hypothetically, a coach must choose one of two athletes. Both have similar skills and talents. One wears a mask, the other does not. Given your resources, you choose the one who is not dependent on a mask because it is a reasonable assumption that the athlete without a mask is a better investment of limited resources. Keep in mind that college coaches spend a huge amount of time re-training even very talented athletes at the freshman level. A mask means a greater investment in re-training an athlete who has a dependency not on their skills but on their bandaid. Choosing the athlete without a mask is a no brainer. If a parent decides to have their athlete wear a mask and they hope to have their athletic daughter play college ball, the goal should be to get the athlete to play at a level where the mask is not needed or wanted ? or give up on playing serious college ball. If they are too concerned about injury, choose another activity.

 

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Liniluna did bring up a point. Why is it that so many people are more than willing to go out and spend $300+ on a weapon for your daughter (a high tech bat), then expect all the other "kiddies" to protect themselves? What's wrong with THAT picture?

It's like giving your 16 year old son an 800 HP street rod, then telling everyone else to get off the road so he can have some fun!

Why not admit where the REAL problem is? I think looking in the mirror would be a good start, and if you're REALLY serious about safety in the game, don't support equipment manufacturers that have NO REGARD for your daughter's safety. Fix the bats and balls (the ROOT), and there will be NO NEED for fielder's masks!

And parents will spends hundreds of dollars on hitting lessons to use that $300 weapon but spend $0 on defense.

 

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Ok I am terrible with names and teams......(80's were good to me !) but i recall seeing a college pitcher last year who was very popular not wearing a mask but some type of padding on her forehead and protecting her temples.......anyone see this ?

 

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Ok I am terrible with names and teams......(80's were good to me !) but i recall seeing a college pitcher last year who was very popular not wearing a mask but some type of padding on her forehead and protecting her temples.......anyone see this ?

You are correct.
There are several college players that use protective devices in most of the divisions. Most are a result of past injuries some are because they are comfortable with them and have used them for years.
There are still "Old School" coaches out there that are not up to date with the evolution of the sport. Anyone who has been around the game the past 10 years knows todays players are not like players 10 years ago. Bigger, Stronger, Faster with better equipment and training. There are plenty of quality coaches out there that can judge talent and if you have it it will not matter if you wear protective devices or not.

 

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If disagreements are due to another's ignorance and not yours, why the need to talk with anyone? You seem to know it all. Does the word sanctimonious mean something to you?

So**er players do not wear prophylactic knee braces despite the incidence of ACL injuries. Cheer teams do not wear neck braces despite the incidence of neck injuries (at higher rates than softball injuries). It's about the face and our DD's being pretty, not about a realistic appraisal of risk.

The problem is a statistically rare possibility of a serious injury caused by advanced technology in balls and bats and girls playing beyond their means. This is fixable. Limit certain technologies for certain levels of athletic attainment or age. Prohibit certain age groups from playing too close to the plate. By doing this, athletes develop skills slowly, with some quality assurance and can play the game without protective armor that serves to mask (sorry) poor skill development.

Regarding coaches recruiting; there are limits in resources in female athletics? this is not SEC football with unlimited funds. Hypothetically, a coach must choose one of two athletes. Both have similar skills and talents. One wears a mask, the other does not. Given your resources, you choose the one who is not dependent on a mask because it is a reasonable assumption that the athlete without a mask is a better investment of limited resources. Keep in mind that college coaches spend a huge amount of time re-training even very talented athletes at the freshman level. A mask means a greater investment in re-training an athlete who has a dependency not on their skills but on their bandaid. Choosing the athlete without a mask is a no brainer. If a parent decides to have their athlete wear a mask and they hope to have their athletic daughter play college ball, the goal should be to get the athlete to play at a level where the mask is not needed or wanted ? or give up on playing serious college ball. If they are too concerned about injury, choose another activity.

Very good post..... I guess my question then would be back to the face mask on the helmet. Why have a mandatory rule of wearing a mask on offense but not defensive where there is a greater risk of injury?

Just wonder here.... when the rule was mandated to wear masks on helmets, did coaches agree with this rule or did they protest it? Does this fall in the same "bandaid" catagory? If not.... then why not?

 

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FWIW, I think you'll see it becoming more and more prevalent in the college game as the kids who are wearing masks come of age. It may limit a few opportunites at first, but I suspect 10 yrs from now when it will likely be more common than not it will have no affect on recruiting. My guess is a kid who has always worn a mask will suffer little to none of the so-called ill effects from their use.

I'm not in the blame it on the bats camp. How many times have we seen the discussion on here and have had the top hitting instructors make fun of the "what bat is best" discussion. The good hitters are working hard on their game and are going to smoke some balls up the middle (or on the corners) no matter what bat they are using.

98 MPH is 143 ft per second and takes .28 seconds to go 40 ft to the pitcher. 90 MPH is 132 ft per second and takes .30 seconds to reach the pitcher. There's a chance that extra 2 hundreths of a second saves a shot to the face, but I'd says odds aren't so good. Guessing that is all the difference there is in best case scenario between a $300 bat and a $29 Wal Mart special.

 

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I think we should just change from fastpitch to wiffle ball. LOL

Parents should have the right to choose if and how they want to protect themselves but children can't make that decision. What price should they pay for having stupid parents? Should children be allowed to smoke and drink it their parents say it's okay? Should babies be allowed to ride in a car without being in a car seat or with a seat belt? Should a 5 year old be allowed to smoke crack if daddy says it's alright? Should a 10 year old be allowed to stand 35 feet from a batter trying to hit a hard ball right at her face?

 

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Actually, equipment designs do impact the game especially composite bats.
Composite bats can exceed 98MPH with regular use or when parents/players decide to shave/roll or otherwise alter the bat.
Bat MFG that have bats banned are because these bats generate more recoil after ”normal use” resulting in a greater trampoline effect velocity and distance off the bat.
A player swinging a “Hot bat” can go from a .250 hitter to a .300+ hitter and get an additional 30 to 50 ft of distance.

 

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Actually, equipment designs do impact the game especially composite bats.
Composite bats can exceed 98MPH with regular use.......

Don't we see colleges using these exact same bats?

 

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Don't we see colleges using these exact same bats?

Currently yes, As time goes by we may see the bat situation go like base ball and return to equipment that is more easily managed.